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122: Scaling a Drapery Workroom

Michele  00:00

Hello, my name is Michele and you're listening to profit is a choice. Joining me on the podcast today is Tracie Bresnahan of Custom Creations. Tracie owns a full service turnkey to the trade workroom supporting designers. Tracie is also the president of the Window Coverings Association of America. And she is sharing with us today, some of her challenges in scaling a workroom. As you all know, these are the same challenges in many cases that we have, no matter the business type. Listen in as we discuss changing locations, hiring, adding project management solutions, and the timing of it all, enjoy the podcast.

 

Michele  00:42

Every day empowered entrepreneurs are taking ownership of their company financial health, and enjoying the rewards of reduced stress and more creativity. With my background as a financial software developer, owner of multiple businesses in the interior design, industry, educator and Speaker, I coach women in the interior design industry to increase their profits, regain ownership of their bottom line and to have fun again in their business. Welcome to profit as a choice. Hey, Tracie, welcome back to the podcast.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  01:14

Thanks, Michele. I'm so excited to be here. Because I'm always excited to talk about anything with you.

 

Michele  01:19

Oh, thank you. I know, we've gotten on the phone before on coaching calls and like we don't really have a big agenda, and then we end up talking for an hour and finding things.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  01:27

Yes, it explodes every time and there's been several of our mastermind meetings, I think I don't have anything I've been too busy. And I get on the call. And then I have plenty of things, under the surface

 

Tracie Bresnahan  01:37

Right under the surface.

 

Michele  01:38

Yeah, you know, I think a lot of times is because maybe we're not in a place that we allow ourselves to think about certain things at that time. But when you relax, or you're in the conversation, it's almost like ping pong sometimes. And the thoughts start to come out and you realize, oh, wow, I really haven't been thinking about that maybe in the background. You know, I think about a lot of things in the background of my brain, I don't know how to describe that. It's just not at the forefront, because it's not what I'm working on. But in in relaxed moments, thoughts come in. Then when you are given space to kind of pull those thoughts towards the front towards the surface and have a conversation. Like you said, it always explodes.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  02:17

And giving yourself space to do that, I think is key in the background thoughts. Sometimes I feel like I can't turn them off, and I would like to just turn it off and make them go away. But you're right about giving them space or giving space to think about them and work on them. Because in our daily lives and running our business you it's hard, not as hard to so you're just doing what you need to to meet the deadlines and get through and run the business. And you plan a day to work on that. And then the day sort of gets sucked away. So plan and and that's another reason about you our coaching calls because it makes me get on there. It makes me focus on those issues. And then they rise up and then I do something about them. So same thing with today's call and with the storm and everything and you said oh, we can push it off and about. Maybe we should there's so much going on today. I'm so glad we didn't um, but maybe the Wi Fi came back for some reason, though. It's forcing me to sit down and do this. And that's for the best.

 

Michele  03:10

Yeah, we're recording this on the morning that we had a hurricane come through, ah, maybe five hours ago.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  03:18

With love and joy Georgia.

 

Michele  03:20

Yeah, in Georgia, it came all the way up through and we have a lot of areas around us that have no power. A lot of areas around us that have trees down and it's kind of a mess out there. But I think we both have Wi Fi we can we can keep going today. Tracie, you have a full-service drapery workroom, but remind us how long you've been in business and what your current organization looks like. Because we're going to be talking about business challenges that you're facing and scaling and how to work through that. So before we get that fire in, tell us a little bit about your business.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  03:58

Okay, my business started full time I say in 2003 working part time before that, working for friends and so forth like a lot of people start trying to evaluate Is this really a business? Or is this a hobby I'm really good at lucky for me my degree was in apparel engineering. So I'm in the apparel and textile background, so it kind of fit along with what I do. So 15 years later, no more than 17 years later, I've spent that time growing tremendously more than I thought I would in the very beginning. But once I jumped in the plan was to make it happen and keep it going. And that's what I've done. So fast forward 17 years, where I was by myself for a long time. I've had one full time employee we had our five-year anniversary. This past week. Yeah, with Jenny. She's been here five years we've been growing, and it was very scary move for me exciting and scary. But we've been on a path to grow ever since she's very supportive of that. And so we've been using a part time as needed neighbor for about two years really, sometimes more than others. having another hand on the other side of the work room table is what it started out being that's been super helpful to get worked, push through. And now we're looking at another part time person with some actual sewing skills that we might could eventually say, okay, you're going to do pillows today, or you're going to do cushions today, or somehow put her on her own. So we've tried some different things we've tried is bringing a student in with no experience and decided that's not where we were as a business. It's been a good exercise to evaluate what type of person we need here, what characteristics we need, and what experience we need and talents and skills. So it's been a good exercise for about the last six months to really identify what we need. So scaling is where we are now growing. Jenny fortunately, has so many amazing sewing skills and custom workroom skills. But she is also an excellent people manager, and she is a fantastic teacher. So in terms of training people, when they come in here, she is great, she loves doing it. And she's very good at it. So score for me, and score for our business. So that's kind of where we're going. So scaling is huge for us growing, we're also growing out of my home or on the terrace level of my home, which there are so many advantages to but we're busting at the seams and the walls are bulging on the outside. And my husband and I keep redesigning our renovation based on this business. And so we've had some opportunity come up recently to possibly move out of the home that I didn't think was going to be financially feasible for the business that now maybe. So I need to evaluate that kind of goes hand in hand, along with project management needs to really handle the growth. And all this is happening. I'm finding that that's a highlight. And that's, that's a need that I need for my business.

 

Michele  06:49

Okay, so those are the things that I wrote down, as you were talking to, that we're going to talk about as we go through kind of the business challenge questions, hiring location, and project management. And Tracie, in addition to running a workroom that is trade only, you also are president of the window coverings Association of America. Correct?

 

Tracie Bresnahan  07:13

Yes.

 

Michele  07:14

And so you have divided time,

 

Tracie Bresnahan  07:18

A lot of divided time and a lot of jumping around. And my husband has noticed lately, from working from home.

 

Michele  07:24

Yeah. And you know, I was president of that organization for many years and on the board for nine, so I can completely understand it all the more need to have a good project management system to have management and people who can execute the plan without you having to be involved in every step, which frees you up to do that giving back in that service, you know, to the to the nonprofit for your industry.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  07:50

That's right, because I feel very strongly about that. Otherwise, I wouldn't have volunteered for this position, a lot of responsibility. But when I found out about WCA and jumped into it years ago, I volunteered for the board immediately because a it would force me to be there and meet people in network. But it forced me to get to know people that I knew would help my business, they would help me grow in the ways I needed because she you can't just do it by yourself. I mean, you can but it takes a lot of extra time. So yes, I feel very strongly about investing back into the industry. And I feel like it's been good for my business. I've networked with people that have been good for my business, we work together because we know each other through WCA, I have built relationships with industry partners that have been key and critical and certain making certain jobs come to fruition. There's so many advantages from taking that time and investing it back into the industry in those ways and with those types of organizations, but it is another aspect to my divided time.

 

Michele  08:48

Yeah, you and I actually met at WCA back in 2006 or something.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  08:55

I remember when you came in, and I swear to you, I remember thinking that girl's gonna do big things. This is gonna be big. I remember thinking that and

 

Michele  09:05

Thank you. Yeah, I came in. And then it wasn't long after that I, the second president we'd ever had in the Atlanta chapter and then immediately moved over to national So, but I'm like you, I'm very thankful for the time that I was on the board and the time that I served and yes, it did take time away from my business as it does for every person whether they're on a board for a SSID or IDs or right UCA or any others, there is a time commitment. Here's what I also loved about having those time commitments on some type of a board or a charity or whatever is it forced me to be even better in my own business to allow me to have the time to go do it. So it kind of forced some efficiencies because there was no additional time. It made me look at things that before maybe I could have been a little more lacks on I could have let it go. I could have done things in a little more lazy daisy way of going through things and it tightens up your schedule so that you need to get things done. And they need to be done right the first time, because you don't have time for rework. Yes, it takes time, you know, no matter what level you're at this hour spent. But again, the same thing happened to me, Tracie, when I had to pull back from some volunteering I was doing at my church and other areas, and I had to pull back hours for my business because my son had been diagnosed with dyslexia, and I need to teach him yet I still needed to make money in my business. And so what I had to do was get extremely efficient. My time now was at a premium, and I had to price effectively, every single moment, so that the business, you know, could survive it. And it did. And so I just think that's an important thing to note, because a lot of people are fearful of volunteering their time, because they think it's so busy. And sometimes it makes you determine what's really important, and only do that and do it better.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  10:57

That's a great point. And it's easy to forget about that and not look at it that way. But it is true. And it's kind of one of the reasons I jumped in, I'm gonna volunteer for a board position to force myself down that path. And it really does make you It makes you a better, more productive, more organized person. Just like a lot of things that you suggest that we do like the whole Miracle Morning, like you think, oh, I don't have time to read a professional book and take time for myself. But in the end, it does make you more productive during your day you focus better. And so that's, that's a great way to look at it. And it's so true.

 

Michele  11:30

So let's jump in and talk about these three things you can choose which let's do it this way. kind of the way that we work through these business challenges is I asked you what is the challenge you're facing. So we can say, based on the way you described it a minute ago, your challenges that your business is growing and scaling, like you said, The walls are bulging, you're busting at the seams. And so we're looking at, these are not necessarily in a order that we have to go. But just saying so you're looking at a new location to have more space, you're also looking at what is your next new hire, and who does that need to be where it needs to be done. And when you're in that new spatial have room for that next new hire, right. And then also looking at project management. As far as understanding project management, and perhaps the technology of project management. Because the more we can do with technology, it could actually lead you down the path of hiring a different person than you thought you would have hired otherwise, right? The more that we get efficiencies in place and project management in place and process, we sometimes can change what we're hiring because we can do it with technology instead of what people write. Right, so that you can get more skilled on the people side that technology can like technology's not going to make our drapes for us. It's just not gonna, right? It's not gonna. And so we know the challenge. Tell me in a perfect world, what you'd like to see with any pieces or parts of those three elements.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  12:59

In a perfect world I see us in a space similar to what we're looking at, where we can be more organized, more efficient, we're kind of broken up where we are now we make the best of it.

 

Michele  13:10

So you're say you're saying that your current space is broken up because you're in a home on a terrace level, right? More like individual rooms and home is a one big open workroom space.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  13:21

That's exactly right. When a small room that was my work room, and that small space was great and efficient for years because everything surrounded me. But now we've exploded into what was supposed to be my husband's sports bar. And that may never not ever happen. And so we've moved Roman shades in there. And so we work in here and then we work in there. And so it's a little back and forth. If we were in a big space we could put to work tables, possibly three work tables in there, but we can also pull those big tables together we could literally table two story panels, which we do fairly regularly.

 

Michele  13:53

Buth with ease.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  13:55

Yeah, with much more ease and much more efficiency.

 

Michele  13:59

You're even looking at things like in some ways shower curtains, you're looking at duvets,  bedspreads, all those things that are no big.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  14:08

Yeah, I mean, we did we spent we do spend a fair amount of time shifting. Moving stuff. I said, I'm the queen of shifting. There's another word explicit word I use with that, but I won't use the on podcast but I'm really good at it. Because it seems like I'm always having to shift something to do this, and then shift back to do that, which I'm an engineer. It's it's not efficient. So we could be an organized large space where we could work better and work more organized and more efficiently. So that would be amazing having storage. Our businesses almost require as much storage as they require workspace because you've got raw materials and finished product. I sourced the hardware for all of my designers. We're a turnkey workroom. I have a beautiful space and this potential space where a hardware could come in, be stored with its finished product checked in put with a finished product installer. Come see fix everything up together in one place, we're not getting panels from downstairs and hardware from the garage. And do we have all our parts and pieces that are missing anything. So that's huge a place to prep, Roman shaved head rails and spray foam with glue outside the workroom. Like right now, I put plastic on the table, spray the glue, make the cushions take the plastic off the table, and the fabric on the that's the kind of shifting that we're doing. So if we actually had these workstations, it could be dreamy, and hugely beneficial. So that's kind of our perfect world scenario. And a place where I can work sort of separately, but close to the workroom and actually run the business and handle the project management and sort of oversee everything and have enough talented people to be taking care of the fabrication and the details.

 

Michele  15:47

I love that. And let me just tell you, I dream it with you. I see it. So I know that you've been dreaming it with me for quite some time. So it is and I've seen multiple workrooms of clients that we've worked with that have similar spaces. And so we both have seen those. And we know and I can see it. So we're gonna also talk about what you've been doing to get ready because I had to do some things over the last few years to get ready for that we didn't just walk out and decide that we're going to go do we've been probably a couple of years in process watching to know when the right moment is. And hopefully,

 

Tracie Bresnahan  16:18

It's been an evolution. And we've been working on it in the mastermind group because I knew I wanted to grow. And you began that grooming me to develop relationships with designers who have met formed relationships now working with and it's here. And so here we are.

 

Michele  16:34

Yes. All right. So a couple of things that I'm thinking about just with regard to that. And then we'll jump into what we need to do to achieve it, how we're going to get there some things to think about. When we talk about project management. There are multiple things about project management, you know, we talked about looking at multiple layers of it when we do it. But when we're thinking about workflow, communication flow, resource flow, like there are lots of different flows that we have to consider. Right? If we were to build out your project management right now, in explicit detail, it would be very different than what it could be in three months, if you were in the space, right? Some of the basic basics would all still be there, you still check things in, you still do things, but you may check them in differently and in different places. And you may have different people doing it, right. So you still would follow, I am assuming the same basic way of doing work. But I know we both have a friend who bought a business moved from one home to another location to another location, and has had to rework so much of just the workflow. Right, right. And so one thing I would say is, if you are in this, that it could be within a few months, I would offer that you do things more at a very high level. And then we dig in with the detail once you determine if you're moving into the space, because I don't want you to do a lot of detailed process work. And then turn around and have to go redo it again. So when we start moving into project management details, I want to work with you to make sure that we are doing it down to a level that we could pick it up and move it to any location, over the next few months, and then we can build out the rest of the detail behind it.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  18:23

Okay.

 

Michele  18:25

The next thing that I'm thinking about when you're telling me about moving into this location is, again, this is where it opens up the opportunity for you to have more people, because you have the space to not run into each other. We are the view of emeth revisited. We have moved you from technician to manager to CEO, right, we would continue to be using Jenny as a workroom manager in addition to some technician duties, and then bring in another technician to come in under genie in the role of seamstress or seamster.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  19:00

Right.

 

Michele  19:01

Whatever you want to call that role. You know people have all kinds of names for that. And then perhaps a

 

Tracie Bresnahan  19:05

I like workroom technician.

 

Michele  19:06

Workroom technician, I love it. I love it. I love it. Let's use it. And then also perhaps bringing in some type of maybe a support person, because you already have bookkeeping and accounting, those things are already outsourced for you.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  19:19

I did just outsource that recently that has felt very good to let that go. And she comes in my home and doesn't hear. So there's questions and there's that sort of thing. So if that has been phenomenal. He's working on cleaning things up, which that's been good too. So

 

Michele  19:34

Yeah, so we're getting there a bit at at a time. One of the things I want to highlight for you is when we are looking at rent so this is the question that I always get and i i don't know if you've asked me this yet or not. But I always I always get asked how much can I afford? In my rent? Right? That's the number one question everybody wants to know how much can I afford and I usually tell people based on the type of business, some people like to look at it as a percentage of total revenue, I like to look at it as a percentage of gross profit. Because as the profit first coach, I'm always looking at gross profit being the money we have to use to run the company. So now you're you're not cost of goods heavy, but you do have cost of goods, because you are buying some product for your designers and running it through our company. And so I would, let's say we look at gross profit, the next thing that we usually do is we set a percentage, six to 8% is usually fairly reasonable, you could go up to 10. But I am you have to have like a really great gross profit to be able to do that. And so I'm just doing a little math here. That gives you a rough idea of about where you should be. I like that. Yeah, I like that gauge. I like a number at me too. So I would start at six to eight units, it was almost like this, you know, when you go to the bank to get a loan to buy a house, and they always tell you, you can afford more than you think you would be comfortable. Exactly. So you spend the money. And then you realize you don't have any food to eat. You can't put any furniture in any of the rooms. But for I buy, gosh, you got the house. Right. So that's what I don't want to have happen. And so one of the things that I would have you do, and I know that we have been doing this is to do the financial planning and goal setting that we do every year and start looking at if how comfortable am I? And do I have that 6, 8-10 percent of gross profit? Is it already showing up? In my net profit? At the very bottom, right

 

Tracie Bresnahan  21:54

Is the percent showing up in the net profit?

 

Michele  21:57

So let's say for example, you're I'm just going to throw out a number, let's say for example, your rent is $1,000 a month. Yeah, we calculate just to keep the numbers easy, it's 1000 a month? Well, if you were ready to walk out tomorrow, we should be able to see that your business can handle $12,000 at a minimum in the net, like it should be a net profit and you don't mind it coming out.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  22:21

Okay,

 

Michele  22:23

There's an extra $12,000 of profit that is sitting there that if I needed to pay it to rent, I would be okay. If you are running your p&l down to zero dollars, where there's no money left, or it's just enough to pay you a salary. And just enough to keep the business alive, it may not be the time to go out and rent a space. Right? And so that was why I asked you, oh, gosh, probably what a year and a half, maybe even two years ago, I said to you, how about, let's start taking a dollar amount that we think is rent, and saving it or putting it into a separate account or do it and that's what you've been doing that now if you were to turn around and walk out and that same amount that you have been paying as rent, you know, in this category, you can now pay to somebody else, you're not going to miss it the same way. Right? Because you've been planning for it. Now, it may mean that your rents a little bit higher than what you've been planning for to now you just have to see, can I now absorb that difference? Let's say that you had planned on it being 1000 a month, and now everything you can find around you was 2000 a month? Well, now you had to find an extra $12,000. Right, of course, plus cam fees plus whatever additional fees, you know, if if it doesn't, if it's not all inclusive, but then we're going to go back and look at those financials, then we're going to take that 2000 times 24,000. And we're going to see what percentage of what percentage it is of your gross profit. Okay, see, am I still within that range. And that's how we start to see. Now, it may be that you start off at 8%. But when you get there and you have the ability to hire another person or move more effectively and efficiently, your profit goes way up. So you know it your rent could come down as a percentage based on the reflection of you know, you're getting your efficiencies in order to miss that. But what we don't want to do is go out and have such a stretch for rent when many of these places are three and five year leases. And it's expensive to get out of it and the rent is so heavy that if work got slow, you couldn't handle it. Another thing you can do is go back and look at your slowest month choose your three slowest months, okay? And pull those up and see if you could have afforded rent, whatever the new number is that you have, could you have afforded that you can pull the piano up for those three slowest months over the last year or the last two years, could you have added in the additional 1000 2000 3000, whatever, for rent? And what would that have done to your financials within that month? Okay. And that'll start to give you an idea. Because as we've been talking about, I know you've been through all of my courses, the pricing without emotion, a couple of times, the understanding of financials and master profit, the profit first piece, we've been through all of those. So you know, you, you also are already aware of how all your numbers fit together and how all this works. And so right, we're just going back to see, could I pay myself and we talked in there a lot about your breakevens, what does it cost to stay open, this now gets added to the breakeven cost. Because you don't get to say sorry, like, we've just been through COVID, let's say that you ended up having to come back home, you keep a small space in your home, in case it gets shut, you still have to pay that rent. Right. And so you have to make certain that we have reserves enough that we have a plan in place that you can handle that. If we have three months for nobody can come in, or we have specially in these times, you know, two years ago, we wouldn't have thought about it quite this way. But now we have to, we have to think, Do I have enough in reserves? Have I saved enough? And my flesh enough? Do I have enough overage in my profit, that if for some reason my numbers came down? Because work was slow coming in? Or we forbid we couldn't get fabrics or something happened? How could I handle that? For the whole for the whole year?

 

Tracie Bresnahan  26:49

That's perfect.

 

Michele  26:50

Now, you've already been doing some of that. And so that's,

 

Tracie Bresnahan  26:54

I'm glad to have an avid profit first student and live and breathe by it, love it. And I'll do my financials every month. And so it's nice to think I can just go back and pull those up and find these numbers.

 

Michele  27:08

Well, and it also probably, or I'm going to ask, instead of assuming, when you started looking at spaces and talking about spaces and possibility, to be able to look at your financials and know that for the last year, 18 months, two years, you've been putting back at least a large portion of what a rent payment might be, what you assumed it might be or what you thought you could afford, it might be, even if it's not exactly the same amount that is already got to give you some ability to see it a little bit easier, you're not making the leap from zero to whatever the number is you're making the leap from what you've been saving to what that number is.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  27:49

Right. And I haven't been super stringent on that exact number every month. But I have gradually shifted my numbers that way, between when I'm taking distributions. And when I'm getting paying myself or right used to I paid myself for rent and I came into our houses income. So I've tried to shift it around some knowing that I've been looking at this for the last 18 months, right and trying to make those plans. So I think the business can easily you know, once I do the numbers, handle that, because I've been I've been guiding myself that way.

 

Michele  28:19

Exactly, exactly. Okay. So with regard to people then right? Well, let me let me Let's wrap up location, then let's talk about people. So with the location, one of the things I would also, if you have not, I can't remember if you've already done this or not started list of what are the things that you need in the space so that you don't go into a space and get like all googly eyes, and then come back and realize it's not going to support what you need to do and where you need to go. So it may be that you put in there. I mean, especially for a work room, we've got to have wide open spaces to move things around. But you want to look at things it's I would say a lot is focused on electricity. That's a big one for us. It is is there enough, you know, what are the electricity needs? And can it be met most places are not going to automatically have it because it's not what people need. But if you already know, here's what I know that I need. There may be more but here's what I know that I need. If it's not in this space, can it easily be adapted to have it can it can I do a build out to do that because there's not just the rent costs there build out cost?

 

Tracie Bresnahan  29:33

There are and we talked about this sort of off the cuff looking at the space Friday, because Jenny and I've had this conversation a lot considering like when I say we've been redesigning our renovation based on our business is we've literally done that our wood shops if we relocate the woodshop into a separate garage and we expand the workroom into the woodshop How would that look? And what do we need so we've kind of done a lot of that verbally based on what you said we need to actually put it on paper and we did it a little bit in the space for it. Like we said, Okay, can we want to run water over to our to fix irons? Where's electric capacity, we do need to build out a couple of walls, you do not want to see that if Beverly is presenting a design presentation, you don't want to hear the sewing machines banging around in the background.

 

Michele  30:15

So can you get into the ceilings because a lot of our things are coming from ceiling drops.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  30:21

Yes. And that was one of our media things. And luckily, the workroom space in this area is below a second floor. So all the wood floor joists are actually exposed and painted. So you can see me Yeah, going right into wood, right? things and so and then there was upholstery, no one wants to listen to a stapler for four hours, or they're

 

Michele  30:42

not even just that even just the air compressor,

 

Tracie Bresnahan  30:46

Oh, gosh. So we looked at that. And again, storage, and doing those messy jobs spraying foam with glue and those types of things. So we had some of those that are always our key struggle points in my business now. Or in our, in our space. Now. We were looking at those on Friday, like how could we fit those in. So

 

Michele  31:07

The nice thing is just to create, yeah, just that bullet pointed list. Exactly. So that if you end up, let's say that space was 98% there, but it doesn't go all the way, right, and you can't make it go all the way and it doesn't work, you'd have to go evaluate a second space, it's nice to know what you're evaluating against. It's, it's the equivalent of us going out to hire somebody and having a job description already written.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  31:32

That's true. And that's a great way to look at it. And it's also would be good to know what things we want that the space does not have. I mean, there's a lot of things in space I have now doesn't have. So it won't be perfect, there'll be some things on the list doesn't have. So to identify those, and know how we're going to work around those like we have to do now seems important to...

 

Michele  31:53

or even knowing if it's not able to be worked around, right? I mean, and so if you have the list going in what it does is it keeps you from just being captured by the excitement of what's happening. And it makes it a little bit more engineering.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  32:07

Yeah, because the lady, I'm going in with this, she the designer, she has to look at that too. Because there's a there's a doctor, but it's street level, ground level. So she she's required to have an actual truck level doctor to receive certain things. So that's probably one of her biggest challenges that doesn't have How can she?

 

Michele  32:27

Can it be?

 

Tracie Bresnahan  32:28

Yeah, can it be? How can it be added? And can a truck get in here? So we did identify a few of those. But I love the list, I need to like the list?

 

Michele  32:39

Yeah, I think, again, I think it's just remember that part of the aim with intent methodology that is being very intentional. And the intentional is what is it that I need, because the things that you're talking about, they're not just nice to have, those are the things that are going to ensure to some degree more efficiency in your business, otherwise you wouldn't get exactly. And so if we are not sure of what those are, you can even have the list. And as you and Jenny bump around each other for the next month, go in and write it down. Exactly I've been keeping, we'll talk about this in a second. I've been keeping an open document on my computer lately. And one of the things I would want to recommend to you, when we start talking about if we were to move, let's move now, let's move now into the hiring conversation. Because I think this is where my document comes into play. And so what I would say is I have this big document and I've called it a resource map. And I shared this in coaching the other day in my, in the group in the designer's inner circle, I created this great big resource map. And what I did was I started writing down every task that needs to be done in the business, not my task, I didn't write my test down, but I wrote down every task that I want to hand off delegate have already delegated, like, everything that needs to be done that I am not the one doing and don't want to do. So that I kept the things for me on a separate list that are what I consider my queen bee role. These are the things that only Michele can do. Okay, okay. Then I went and took all of those tasks. And I categorize them. These are marketing, these are administrative, these are project management, these are whatever. And then for the last week or two as something comes across my desk and I'm like, I hope I never have to do that again. I go write it on that task list. I find out where it goes and I go write it down, or something comes up and I look at my Oh, she's already doing that. And I write it on list. Okay. Then what I did was I created a second column and I put the name beside every one of those tasks. And of the person who's already doing that work and then if the if the task was That being handled by anybody I just put open, that means is open to assign. Then on the third column, I went in and made a note of which things were free to be reassigned. Okay, okay, I have a list of the task, I have a list of who is assigned to. And then I have a column saying, is it open for reassignment. And then what I've done is I've looked at what are the open things that I have, that nobody that currently I'm doing, and I don't want to do anymore, they need to be handed off, or one of my team members might be overloaded, or I might have a team member who's leaving. So this is going to be an open position. And then I can start to pull those together into like things. Because sometimes we go to hire, and we want to hire somebody that does a little bit of everything. But then we expect him to do it all really, really well. And we know that's not how it works. And so it's just been extremely clarifying, for me to make sure that nothing falls through the cracks, then that becomes a resource map that I can use in my project management later. Because I know who's doing what I know who's writing the slps. If they're not there, I know which processes I have slps for because these things are grouped together. And what it when I did mine the other day, it kind of shook out that I instead of me thinking I needed one new hire, I'm pretty certain I now need two new hires. Because the things that I'm going to ask them to do are not the same. And I want people who do what they do really, really well. All right. So if you were to think about that, when you're creating yours. And I say that because especially as we look at EMF again, the more you bring in people under Jenny, the higher Jenny moves, the less Jenny has time at the table.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  36:49

Right? Right.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  36:52

She ends up with the same problems I'm dealing with.

 

Michele  36:55

That's why we have to look at what can be reassigned. So what it may end up being as for a while, you know, it's all hands on deck. But what is it that you two need that I'm not going to say you're lacking in it? But what is it that you two need either to support you and your role? If Jenny takes on some of the oversight that you're currently doing? Who's going to step into take some of those things off her plate? Do you see what I mean? There's the shuffle down. Because we can't if Jenny's already full time, we can't then turn around and say you're so great at educating, go educate at the same time, you're so great at oversight go oversee at the same time, you're so great at all of these things to answer questions at the same time. Oh, and keep learning new techniques and stay fast and get all of it done. It will burn out will burn anybody out?

 

Tracie Bresnahan  37:43

Yeah, the point is to work smarter and not not. Not so much. I guess I should say there's two happening right now.

 

Michele  37:51

Too much. So if you haven't done that, it's a good thing to do is like what are the tasks that Jenny currently has? That could be assigned down? Now my way of thinking is that when we delegate work, we delegate it to the lowest possible level that it can get done properly. Okay, because that means that you're paying less to get it done. But you're paying the right person the right amount to get it done. Does that make sense? Like I don't want you to, I don't want you to give it to the intern if it needs to be done by the staff level person.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  38:28

Right, right.

 

Michele  38:29

But I don't want you giving it to the Vice President if it needs to be done by the staff level person.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  38:34

Okay, that makes sense.

 

Michele  38:35

So all delegation is pushed down to the lowest level where it can be done properly. And in a way that supports your brand. If pushing it down another level means that it's slower, sloppier and not on brand, don't push it down that far.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  38:53

Okay. And we did sort of find that as a we experienced bringing a student in here. And we realized, inexperience is not where we don't have so much time to teach, that we can actually get our work done. Right. And we're not we weren't ready to hand it down. It was too soon.

 

Michele  39:11

That's right. I see this a lot in the design world where people will say, I need a junior designer, I need a junior designer, and then the junior because they think that's what they can afford to pay. And then the junior designer sometimes comes in, they don't get the work done as well as they need it. It takes them longer because they're just not ready for all that work. Right? Right, we have a problem. They've pushed it down too far. Right? And then bring in I've seen it conversely, they bring in staff designer, but they're not really giving them staff work. They're giving them stuff that really could be done by a junior level designer, when now they're paying more to get that work done. So you always have to keep an eye on what are the tasks that I'm asking them to do the true job description, can they do it? What is the level of work so that it's commensurate with the pay that you give them? You don't want to be paying $35 an hour for something that you could get for 15 or right. The other thing we used to always do when I was managing teams, I'm an engineer and I had this conversation a lot when we work together, we would if we had any type of a group meeting, we would ask ourselves who needs to be there? Because the last thing we want to do was have somebody at a meeting just because we were having a big group meeting, if they didn't need to be there, because now we're paying them to show up at a meeting that they really don't need. That's wasteful,

 

Tracie Bresnahan  40:32

Right? While they're not accomplishing anything.

 

Michele  40:35

And they have nothing to do with the meeting. So honestly, we're all bored, silly. But we have to do that. So that what this does is make makes you really think about what are the tasks? Who's doing them? Are they the right person, because when you scale, you're going to realize the whole goal here, and you've already been doing it is having the right but in the right seat doing the right work?

 

Tracie Bresnahan  40:54

Exactly.

 

Michele  40:55

Well, as you move your butt, and Jenny's butt to just slightly different seats, the work might have to shift a little bit, there were some things again, that are on your list, they're going to be passed down to Jenny, well, the only way that she can now shoulder that is to pass something down off hers.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  41:10

That's right.

 

Michele  41:10

So with you having the ability to potentially get a new location and to scale the business up again, you know, by one or two more people, it really gives you a chance to almost take, that's why I love the resource map, as opposed to just a straight on job description, we make those and do those too. But what this does, is gives me, me and you and others the ability to take all those tasks and regroup them. So it's kind of like if you had two or three people quit, all of a sudden, you don't have to re hire to replace exactly them doing the same thing, you can move things around, right. So you can use this as an opportunity when you move to change up some of the job descriptions, which means you might now look for a different person than what you were that might you would have had to choose in the location where you are now because you're a lot more limited in areas to move,

 

Tracie Bresnahan  42:03

Right? I could see it changing or evolving to something different based on just the logistics of going in this physical space differently.

 

Michele  42:13

Exactly. So again, just like I don't want you to build your whole project management, and I'm talking about detail workflow around the worker, I don't want you to build that where you are right now, if you think there's a strong potential of stepping out, be careful with your resource plan, that you're not just creating it for where you are right now. But you're creating it for the business you're trying to move into.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  42:37

I love it. You really know how to dial down and drive down those thoughts.

 

Michele  42:43

Well, thank you. I do it all day, every day. But yes, I know that I'm right. And you know, practice makes better. not always perfect, but better. And there. And now say that too. There's not a perfect science to this there. There's still trial, all that that goes with it.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  43:00

Yeah, there is trial and error and trial by fire.

 

Michele  43:03

No doubt, no doubt. Before we move on with hiring, the next thing I really want to encourage you to do and I know you've done this already, when you get higher, it's more than just skill set that we're looking at.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  43:16

I listen to a podcast, it might have been yours and Janelle's, or just Janelle's but what's really resonated with me was you hire character and train skill.

 

Michele  43:26

Yeah, she and I talked about that in the profitability courses and all that we talked about time and money and all that. So there are some skills that you have to have to come in again, if not, you're going back to equivalent of indirect, not yet you're going too far back. So I mean, I wouldn't go hire an accountant that didn't know how to do accounting, but had great character. So again, there's a balance, but but the point of that being, if they have great skill set, and they don't fit in with a company culture, it's not going to be a good fit. That is why I pound into your your head and everybody else's head this and my group, mission, vision, values, your why every single thing because when you interview for I don't care what position it is, when you interview them, if there is not an alignment of that of those values of the way they get along with people of the way that they take constructive criticism of the way that they share criticism with others. If you can't get that worked out, it doesn't matter how great they do their job, it can destroy and create a toxic environment for you in a heartbeat. It's true. So the same way that you have your bullet points for going to look at a location. I want you to start writing your bullet points for what character traits you need of the person that is coming in. What is it that you need them to do? How do you need them to be able to react with you? How do you need them to be able to react with each. I've had some of my clients who have said to me, driving into work and seeing a certain employees car already in the parking lot makes them feel ill. That's not good. When we're driving, it's just like that idea that when a client calls you and you look at who's coming in, or you say their name and email, and you get that sick feeling in your stomach, well, when it's your employee that makes you feel that way, that is not good. And so we, we don't want to hire it in and then we don't want to keep it when it's there, we have to adjust it. So if you'll go ahead and start thinking about the resource maps going to tell you the task and kind of the skill sets that are needed. But I want you to think about more of those softer things that are character related, before you start looking. I can I know you already think about that a lot simply because you're having him right now work in your home?

 

Tracie Bresnahan  45:52

I do. Yeah. And Jenny, and I talk about it a lot. And it's been a good practice to evaluate it, having our neighbor come in and work with us and evaluate how that has fit. Trying the student and evaluating how that has been because it was just her and I for four years. Yeah, we just like, meld together seamlessly. Thank the Lord. And so it's been a very good experience for us to see what we don't want, what we don't, what doesn't work, and even what we don't like. But some of just the people we interviewed, like, you know, that kid, that characteristic is not really a good fit for you and I, and, or even in this environment. So yeah, it's been, it's been an awakening.

 

Michele  46:38

Yeah, I agree with you. So I do encourage you to hire character, and then skill, but also know what is the minimum skill for the position that you're hiring, they may not have every skill, but what is the minimum skill for the position you're hiring, because again, don't want to go hire an accountant who's never done counting, but they're really, really nice, gotcha, you don't want to hire somebody that's going to take all of the Roman shades and panels off to a nice list if they've never used an industrial sewing machine. Right? Like that's going to take you a while to train them to be able to make the decisions that she's making. Oh, long while right. So that's where skill set does matter. But what level of skill set? What is it that are the half to haves for them to know? And then what are the nice to haves as far as that? Okay? Okay, so now let's talk project management. Tell me what what project management means to you. Because a lot of people use that term. And a lot of different ways.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  47:36

They do. And my husband is a project manager in building construction for carpet company, but he's in charge of building their building. So I do hear, see and watch him, I am an engineer by education. So I'm familiar with it, and educated on it years ago. And I do tend to sort of develop that in my own skills. Like I have some processes, they may not all be documented, but they're consistent. We know them. They're consistent, this is what we do. And this is how we do it. We're not just sort of haphazard all over the place. But as my business grows, I'm seeing project management on a bigger level, like say my husband works with his jobs, not the $50 million buildings, but something on a smaller scale, but very similar. So I've got all these moving parts. And I see myself as this puppet here, but I need to be able to pull them together and know what's happening over here and make sure it's happening over there. Like I know when I place an order, I do this, I check this box, I put this here. But did I how did I confirm that the order went through? I had that was a big oopsie recently, when I never got the confirmation, and I've failed to make sure that the confirmation came through when it didn't, I followed up with it. So an install couldn't happen. So then I was like, Oh my gosh, one of my one of my methods, one of my processes failed. So I'm I'm seeing it now is technology oriented. Something I can communicate with my designers like I did developed a very simple, simple Google Sheet. One of my designers inevitably calls Hey, how much yardage did I need for that particular pillow? Hey, how much shorter is the need for that particular panel, even though it's listed on the quote, she's out and about, she doesn't have any information, I would have to stop, go over to the file, get it because, you know, I want to service them. And they know they can call me for what they need. But so I created this Google Sheet that has when I checked the fabric and okay here, here's everything we need for that job. Here's when it was checked in. Here's when it's going to be in work in process and tentative install, and I share it with them so they can see it. But now, okay, I have to keep up with it. I have to make sure it's current. And the information on it is correct. So I have places where I've got the Google Sheet for this I've got a spreadsheet for that I've got a label for this. But how can we bring it all together and make it make sense because as the business grows, I'm seeing a need for it. But also, as I jump around, um, there's a need for it. I'm in the workroom for four hours here, I'm at my desk here, I'm at WETA over here. So I need something that pulls it all together. So I'm not dropping the balls in missing little bits and pieces, because I'm jumping around until I can get more people in and everybody doing their own thing.

 

Michele  50:31

Right. Okay, so I, I will tell you this, with Project Management, I think there are, there's more than one aspect, there's the external project management, which is you with the designer, and then there are certain things that are more internal project management, which is you Jenny, and all the other stuff that comes from behind. There may be in some cases, based on what you want to do, there may be one system that works for everything, so everybody logs into it, and everybody can see, and you can get permissions so that you know, you can have some internal management and, and that kind of thing, right. But I will tell you this, any project management system is only as good as you following through with every single thing all the time. Just like QuickBooks, somebody can say I've QuickBooks, but man, my numbers are a mess, why? Well, I haven't balanced anything, I don't put in my invoices, and I haven't, you know, updated that I put money in the bank, well, then does, you know, good to have a system that you're not using.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  51:35

So I will say that that consistency is key. Like when you said a minute ago, my process was broken, it may not have been the process that was broken, as much as the execution of the process, that was a good execution is it and that's probably where dropping the ball is in the execution variation of it. Mm hmm. Where I'm seeing little things come up. And I'd say for a long time, you know, I could kind of my, one of my bragging points is we're full service. And we take care of all the details. Well, if you're dropping some of the details and execution, you're not taking care of the details.

 

Michele  52:07

And so a lot of it does come down to that consistency, and that execution, like almost being so regimented, that when you, when you get up in the morning, you're going to brush your teeth, right? To not brush your teeth, you're going to brush your teeth, before you go to bed, you're going to brush your teeth. So just these are just habits of work that that we just do. And, and that's the same thing that whatever you put in place has to be. Now there are lots of project management systems and lots of ways to do it out there. But before you make the decision, on which one you want to choose, I would implore you to create that list that says here's the things that I want to be able to do with the client like this is the view I want them to see or the information I want them to have access to. And this is what I need to do for us internally that nobody has access to. Okay. So in other words, what you've done is you've created your evaluation criteria, before you go trying out all the different project management systems. Okay, I'll give you another prime example. There are designers out here who were using IBM, my DOMA and some of the others to manage the client facing portion, and to, in some cases, manage the product and the sale. But neither of those can manage the full financials of their company. So they're going to take the data from that and move it into QuickBooks or into an accounting software to be able to manage, because you don't put your business expenses in those systems. Right, they also then, neither have or a lot of those project management facing systems don't manage the behind the scenes, the workflow of information it doesn't handle, when the contract gets sent out when certain things don't, so that they're all using other things are using things like air table, Asana, Trello, Basecamp, dubsado, to create workflows, and project management that's more internal for their business. A lot of work rooms are using air table. I use air table to manage my podcast. And air table is like a big glorified spreadsheet. But it allows you to have drop downs to like you move things to statuses, it can you can assign people to see certain views. And so they can only see certain things that you can take out what they don't need to see. And it's it's, it's actually very robust. And so, you know, it really comes down to what is it you're trying to show them? What is it you want to do? But even with my podcast, being managed through air table, if I scheduled a podcast and I don't go in there and say it scheduled the people down the line that need that information would never know, right? So it's still whatever you Create, it still hangs on you and Jenny or whoever is going to be keeping up with that information, they want to keep up with the information that now has to be part of the process.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  55:10

Well, I've learned that with my simple little Google Sheet, you know, it's not it's not effective for Linda to go in and, and see if the yardage is received, if I didn't put in the yardage.

 

Michele  55:20

Right, and so then what, what we would do is, we would take a step back and look at your standard operating procedures. That might be that when we receive fabric, number one, Open Google Sheet number two, and then you go through the process. So then prompt yourself on what to do. So even before you go further, I would go into all of your operating procedures. And I would prompt what system they need to open to try whatever data is coming out of that activity. It's just like saying to somebody, I need you to give me your billable hours so that I can go into QuickBooks and send an invoice Well, if they didn't keep up with their billable hours, then how do you do that? So it's just those habits that we have to create. So I would start looking at that as well. And so if you got your evaluation list of project management, if you have separated it between here's what I need to manage a project like a client project, and what do I need to manage across client projects internally, right? Because if you have six designers, designer six doesn't need to look at the information from designer one. So what are they need to see? And then what do you need to have in the background for each of those and across them? And then use that to start the evaluation process. I'll tell you another thing I love to do is like, let's say that Asana was one of the ones you looked at, okay, just because that's why never Asana, Asana, I've heard it all the ways. But let's say that's one that you looked at, if I were to go out and do number one, I was like to do the free trial. I like to look at what they say they offer. And then I love to go in and Google, who is the competitor to Asana and it will give you a whole list of all the competition of Asana. And then I start walking through and checking it out. You can use do any technology platform practically, and go in there and say, who was the competitor to this? Whose competitor to Basecamp, who's the competitor to Trello. And it'll give you a whole list of it.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  57:15

Okay. So the, and finding, you know, we went through this recently you went, was it we were evaluating or going over project management on our interior designer circle webinars, and it was just all too much at the time. And you're like, Alright, if you don't have the bandwidth for it, now, don't do it. Right. So it needs to be I'm assuming it needs to be a time where, okay, in the next two to three weeks, I am prepared, and have time set aside, evaluate this and look at it cuz I really mean think about that. Like, I'll just get this. And I'm pretty intuitive and user friendly with things. But I found that was not the way that works. Like you don't do that when you've got four installs this week.

 

Michele  57:57

yeah, alright, so true. Hashtag truth. Here's the thing. First of all, there is an evaluation process on what is the right technology for you, the technology and you, you remember this, there was dream Draper, and minutes matter studio. And both of them. If you were looking for an outcome, we're creating the same outcome of giving us windows that we could put Window Treatments on that we could give a visual to the client, right. But different people had their favorites based on the way they interact with technology, what was intuitive to them, when they went into the program, none of us would have bought that program and thought that the next day, we could have created a rendering that looked like the owners were creating with that program. It takes time. So what you first do is you identify what your needs are what you know, now you're going to find things that all of these technologies can do that you hadn't even considered.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  58:58

Right. And do you find that people evaluate two to three different ones?

 

Michele  59:02

Yes.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  59:03

I like it seems like,

 

Michele  59:06

it's usually like, three, I usually like to do three. Okay. But first I write down what is it I need it to do? And I, what is it I think I need it to do?

 

Tracie Bresnahan  59:18

And am I gonna be able to tell from looking on their website, this is what our system does for us is the one I need to try.

 

Michele  59:26

When you pull it up, it says, here's what we do. They have videos, you can watch him. And if you go out and Google and then Google, who they're competing against, there are a lot of spreadsheets out there that show you every single one and they compare them. Okay, like if you're gonna buy a phone like me, yep, same kind of thing. All right. The first is you go into it, knowing what you what you think you want. Then you go through a research phase, what technology works, I've had plenty people if you listen to them, well, I used to be on Basecamp then I jumped to Trello and then I do jump to a fun, because they're learning. But the better that you spend the time and doing what you think you need and doing that evaluation, the less likely you're going to have to jump.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  1:00:11

Yeah. Easier than jumping right using. Like a rabbit hole.

 

Michele  1:00:16

Yes. Right. The next thing you do is when you're looking at that technology, and you're looking at what it can do, this is where I want you to think just like your location, if my business grows, I may not need what they're saying right now. But can I see a need for that in the future, because what I don't want you to do is buy technology that is similar to the space that you're in. And within six months, you're busting at the seams of what it can do. We want to have room to grow in the technology, okay? Or in that application. So if you're looking at one of the project management applications, and you've narrowed it down, sometimes it they narrow themselves down to two or three based on what you need it to do. I also then you can look at the price, you can look at it. Is it month to month, is it a year only? What do they say about the learning curve? Can I find people to help me on this? Like all those things come as part of the evaluation? All right, then what you do is you would go in and do the 7, 14, 21 day free trials that most of them have, and just get in there and watch the tutorials it takes time. Move around, try it. Does this seem intuitive to me? Does it seem intuitive to me? What do I like to interact with? That's why some people like iCal some people like Google some people like Microsoft calendars, you know, there are all these different calendars.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  1:01:39

It seems to be a huge time commitment. Not that's not worth it. I mean, the business needs it, you got to do it. But it is very daunting. time commitment. Yes. When you're looking at how many hours you're working a week, yeah. But I know in the end, it's going to be better for the business. It's just a matter of planning for it, I guess the correct valuation?

 

Michele  1:01:59

Absolutely. I want you to compare it to onboarding a brand new employee. Yeah. Because this technology app is going to take the place of an employee that would be sitting down running around trying to do all these things, right. So the more that you write down, I'm going to put in air quotes, the job description that you need the app to do, right, then you interview the applications, then you hire an app. Now you have to onboard the app, which may also cause you to rethink how you do some things, just like if it were a human that walked through your door, right. But once you've done it, it should take some off of you and be done a lot more with ease. that frees you up for later. Remember that whole conversation we've had the difference between urgent, important and significant. This is significant. So it's a time multiplier. It multiplies time later, by doing it. But building out a project management system, it is not a weekend, let's get it go and jump in there and go because it makes you stop and rethink your process. It makes you rethink your naming structures. It makes you rethink how information flows through your company communication flows through your company workflow throws through flows through your company. And that's why you it. It is not it should not be a quick Giddyup. Let's go it should be a more thoughtful process to get through. Because once you've done that thinking, it's just like us, we wouldn't run to the table and go make a complicated balance for it. We would sit and we would think about it and lay it out in our head. And we would think about how do we move the fabric? And can I get it out of this fabric? And what if I did that? Would this be an easier way? And how can I hide that seem like you're thinking through the process the whole time, you've spent hours before you ever step up to the table. That's exactly what this is going to require.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  1:03:51

And that's such a fundamental way to look at it. Because if somebody said, Okay, I need a really odd pillow like this, that and the other, that's exactly what I would start doing. But for this, it's kind of a remaining avoidance, instead of tackling like just like I would tackle anything else saying,

 

Michele  1:04:06

Yeah, just start skimming it, we have to give ourselves as we started the whole beginning of the podcast, give ourselves the space to do it, which means it can't be crammed into a 15 or 30 minute opening that we have some work right, I'm locked in when I have been doing some, you know, some evaluations. And when I've been doing mine and and working through it, and even working through all of my own, I'm blocking hours, I usually ask you guys to block a minimum of three hours, to just each, you know, a day could be overwhelming, it could be too much and you start to get shut down. But a morning is like you know, eight to 11 or nine to 12 like just the morning. And then that's all that I can get done. I'll block another morning. You know, we're an afternoon later. But two to three hours is enough for you to get into it and get immersed in it and not feel like you're just starting to understand that you got to stop and go do the next thing.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  1:04:59

Yeah I'm bad about squeezing in, I'll do that for 30 minutes, I'll do that for an hour, I'll do that before Jenny comes into work. Yeah, and it's not, it's not enough.

 

Michele  1:05:07

This is where you got to sit and think through it, and you've got to give it you got to build in the time to do it well, and to have a process that supports you now and where you're going, the time that you spend at the beginning, that's what you know, I come from the software world. And people based on some of the software that we used to sell, it could be a year long sales process. Like you, they there were full on evaluations of everything because it meant processes needed to change it meant, you know, think about your, you know, technology from an engineering and textile, they wouldn't go out and just buy a whole big machine that changed the way they produced all of these things without thinking through every complexity, or every area of complexity that was involved. This is no different we kind of think of app is just just throw it out. This isn't just like a task manager. This is project this is the whole project.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  1:06:03

Right? So let me ask you a specific question. And the interior designer, designer circle webinars, we talked a lot about hive, do you have three or four that you would throw my way, knowing my business, knowing my processes to a certain degree that, you know, it could take me from having to look at tend to look at three or four? Sure.

 

Michele  1:06:25

So I would suggest you and I'll dig in deeper on if we're talking client focused or external or whatever, right, but almost say that I'd like the idea of either the Google Sheet or air table for your clients, for the designers to look at, because it's going to be a lot more narrow. Now that could change based on the way that we implement some other things.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  1:06:46

Yeah, it's pretty basic what mine designers need to see.

 

Michele  1:06:49

That's exactly right. So we don't need to set in different different project management tools require people to have a seat, if you will, to be able to get into look at it. So we don't want to pay more than we need to pay. Right. Right now, a lot of my clients, I'll tell you that the top three for internal project management, so this isn't talking IV, my domain, it's not that type of project. This is internal project management. Outside of using Excel, and Google Sheets, which people do, there's a heck of a lot of management through Google Sheets and all that. But I'll tell you when you're looking at workflow management and all that, but I would say the top three that I see are, well, the top two that I see would be Asana and Basecamp. A lot are also using Trello. So Basecamp, Asana and Trello. But I'll tell you my new favorite, and it's Hive. And I'll put a link down at the bottom if anybody wants to check it out.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  1:07:48

I wanted to ask you about that, because we've I've already been introduced to that. So that's still at the top of your list it?

 

Michele  1:07:53

It is but let me tell you why it's at the top of my list because I went through and I use Asana too, and because I'm in the middle of some transitions. But here's what I needed for my clients. I needed a project management system that allowed them to manage resources, employees, and calendar across projects. Okay, just within projects, and Asana, and Trello and Basecamp. They do not do resource management across projects. So I needed you to be able to look at your company across six to 10 projects, versus having to go into each project to see what's happening.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  1:08:38

I guess that would apply to me, I mean, at first I was thinking now I don't have five designers working on 10 different projects. But I do have 10 designers I'm working for across the project. So it was the same application a different one. And I think I had tunnel vision about that.

 

Michele  1:08:57

Yes. And because we might want to look at you, you may only have two seamstresses, or what do we call them working technicians? Yeah. So but their time has to be managed if you're not running everything in a straight flow, which means you're only working on one project at a time. If they're doing some on this project, some on this project, some on that project, which is, again, what most of my designers are doing. They've got multiple things happening at a time. This one might be in a quote process while this one is being in that we're working on the pillars for this one. We're working on the panels for that one. Some work rooms go in and do like going into all panels this week. So they get all their panels ready for two or three jobs and they run that through again, it's based on how you do your work. But I wanted them to be able to manage employees resources across multiple projects and to be able to see it rolled up at a at a company level. None of the others do that. And that was important, as I support my clients that we roll out All the way up to the committee because that's the piece they were missing. The question was always, when can I take the next job? Well, if you if this job gets pushed out job one, right and or task one of job one or whatever, there's this ripple effect. And they were having to manually go change calendars and manually figure that out, or when can I take the next consult, but I can't onboard the client to get the job started. And so there were the pieces and parts that were kind of dropping in from project c into the middle of project a, just from a timeline, calendar perspective. And then they had no way to see that. And hive allows you to roll all the way up to look at it for the company, as the project, like what is the whole company have? Now let me come down and look at what is an employee have. So I could pull up Tracie, and I could see everything that Tracie is assigned across 10 projects, I could manage Tracie's time across all 10 of those.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  1:11:01

For me, it may be here's this designer and here's their projects, correct. We've got this project a this is in the quoting phase, project B is being ordered, and C is in the workroom, and d is being installed, okay?

 

Michele  1:11:15

And you have to jump across all of them. And a lot of the others will manage all that. But you have to go into ABC, what you have to do, you have to go into B and we can't tell in some of the other project management systems that you're overloaded. Whereas in hive, I could look at Tracie and see Tracie's overloaded without having to go into each individual one to manage.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  1:11:41

Okay.

 

Michele  1:11:43

But what I would say if you if you wanted to look, I would have you look at Asana, and I would have you look at hive, those would be the two that I would probably choose for you. Okay, knowing your business coach together so long, then I would say if you're looking at what you want your clients to see, if you really want to keep it simplistic, you might just want to do something like a Google Sheet or an Airtable.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  1:12:09

I'll probably just keep what I've got, I mean, right now, the ones that I have the most projects with, they do have the Google Sheet there are they've got an assistant like, you know, there are a new person, she's got the Google Sheet, so that's going to be her new task.

 

Michele  1:12:24

If not you've got to train them. Yeah, now introduce a new app to them new technology that's

 

Tracie Bresnahan  1:12:30

It's easiest just to stay where we are. It's really just about communicating information. And it's easy and simple. And it's already there. And yeah,

 

Michele  1:12:40

agreed.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  1:12:42

Okay, wow.

 

Michele  1:12:45

Okay, so I guess you got a lot to do.

 

Michele  1:12:46

Let's talk about timing for just a second. And then then we'll wrap it up, too. So the first thing that I know, that you're looking at is the location, I know that that's kind of kind of come come up real quickly. So let that play out. Don't overstretch yourself on all these other things, started just doing what we talked about and list out what do you know you need in a location, go ahead and get that done relatively quickly, because they're even going to help you in this next process of build out and making a selection on location. And look at what we talked about with the rent as a percentage. Okay, hey, yep, start there. We'll talk to him. After that, the next thing I would do is based on how quickly that might happen very quickly, it might push out a little bit, then I would probably start looking at hiring because that's probably one of the next big things that's going to happen. Even if you don't hire until the New Year, you can easily go ahead and start looking at what you would have them do.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  1:13:46

Okay,

 

Michele  1:13:46

Right. And I would probably save the project management focus. And because we're recording this as we're moving into the crazy holiday rush. So I would probably save that until after that rush, when you have a little time between the changing of the years. And it slows just a bit for you to think that's when I would start thinking about it. But you also don't want to be doing that on top of a move into a new location.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  1:14:13

No, I don't. And we've had the fall rush since about June one. Yeah. So we're like, yeah, it's been going something for you to help me give myself space for that. And help her work has that is amazing. Yeah. If the move move goes forward, and everything falls into place, it could very well be timing out at the end of the year. So to get that in and going and then Okay, let's come back and figure out how to manage our projects could be perfect, especially.

 

Michele  1:14:41

And listen, it may be that over the holidays is when you're moving into that location. Don't try to make a management. That might be what we set up as you know how I have you do one big goal for each year. That might be your one big goal for q1 or maybe one's one big goal was hiring Q2 Project Management. Because don't think that you you're not you still have a project management system right now. Because you're imaging your projects, what you could be doing is writing down and tweaking the things that you want to do better. So that when you sit down to look at it, you've already thought about that. Right. It's not at all sit down and do it at one time.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  1:15:20

Yeah. And I tend to do that I put too much on my plate at one time. It's just it's the nature of my character and personal and business wise, so helps a lot.

 

Michele  1:15:29

So the good thing is, we know your next big three goals. And that's all you really that right, there is enough for an entire 2021 for you. Good location, staffing, staffing, project management. And so based on how this location comes, that becomes the first quarter, right of wherever we are, you know, wherever you are in the year, then you can look at the things that come behind. And if at that point, project management becomes more important than hiring, we just move it in front of it. Yeah. But you don't have to do it all at one time. You can't too much.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  1:16:04

No. And it's very refreshing to flush it out and have know that there's a visual plan. And it's not overwhelming.

 

Michele  1:16:15

Yeah. Deep breath.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  1:16:17

Yeah. It was a big, big breath this last hour and a half.

 

Michele  1:16:21

That's exciting. But you're doing good. You're doing good. Well, Tracie, thank you so much for sharing this challenge and letting us talk through it. And really kind of look at the details of how we would go about doing that. I appreciate your time and your honesty and transparency as we went through it.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  1:16:36

Well, we appreciate you always and your podcasts or just that for me, they have been for that so many people with so many different kinds of businesses. I've had several aha moments listening to those or shifted something in my business because of those. So the sharing is phenomenal. And thanks for having me on. I hope it's beneficial to somebody besides me.

 

Michele  1:16:57

I'm certain that it will be. Have a good day.

 

Tracie Bresnahan  1:17:00

Thanks.

 

Michele  1:17:01

Thank you, Tracie for joining us and sharing your business building journey. Each of us as we grow our business, we'll run into some if not all of the business challenges that we've been covering on the podcast. Tracie mentioned not doing business alone. And I second that I am a business coach and I have a business coach. inviting someone in to see what you cannot see can really be instrumental in furthering your growth. If you're interested, I would love to have the conversation with you. You can go to Scarlet Thread Consulting comm and set up a discovery call and we can hop on and talk. be intentional about scaling your business and managing it because profit doesn't happen by accident.