123: Merging Architecture and Interior Design in Business
Michele 00:00
Hello, my name is Michele and you're listening to profit is a choice.
Michele 00:05
With me today is Anastasia Harrison, Principal Architect of HD and Co. Through her extensive experience in complete home design, Anastasia has created a unique niche for her design firm, incorporating architecture and interior design together. Her team strives to help clients live beautifully through outstanding design, and to provide complete custom spaces that set a mood throughout the entire home. In addition to running HD and Co, Anastasia also heads up the New Jersey chapter of Savvy Giving Bad Design, which creates safe and cheerful environments for medically fragile children to heal. Our conversation today is going to focus on how she created a firm that mixes architecture and interior design, as well as the steps she is taking to grow her firm with intention. Enjoy the podcast.
Michele 00:57
Every day empowered entrepreneurs are taking ownership of their company financial health and enjoying the rewards of reduced stress and more creativity. With my background as a financial software developer, owner of multiple businesses in the interior design, industry, educator and Speaker, I coach women in the interior design industry to increase their profits, regain ownership of their bottom line and to have fun again in their business. Welcome to profit as a choice. Hey, Anastasia, welcome to the podcast.
Anastasia Harrison 01:29
Thank you, Michele.
Michele 01:30
I'm so glad to have you here.
Anastasia Harrison 01:31
Oh, This'll be fun.
Michele 01:34
Yeah, I think so too. What I'd love to do Anastasia is I've kind of introduced you, you know, before we came on to talk, but I'd love for you to start by telling us what made you choose the industry of interior design all the way back at the beginning, like how did you get into this particular industry?
Anastasia Harrison 01:54
Well, I'm actually a licensed architect and I have been so for well over 20 years, let's not go into how long. But about eight or nine years ago, I felt the need to focus on the interiors, and really found that there was a lot of elements in architecture that people weren't following all the way through with. So beat that began the beginning of my firm, where we focused on all of the parts and pieces of architecture as they relate to how people live and use spaces from the inside out.
Michele 02:29
Okay, so now my brains firing because you know how that goes.
Anastasia Harrison 02:32
okay, yeah.
Michele 02:33
So then tell me this. Let's just take a step back again, what made you choose architecture? Because if that's the foundation that we're going to talk about your business, what made you go into architecture, but that,
Anastasia Harrison 02:45
Yeah, I'll tell you the story. Because it's, I don't know, maybe there's a lot of kids out there that don't know what they're going to do. So I wanted to be a doctor my whole life. My dad got really sick when I was in high school, and he passed away. And I just couldn't have the thought of being a doctor anymore after that. And I went to my guidance counselor all, you know, deflated and not knowing what to do with myself. And they gave me one of these really odd little tests that asked me about 10 questions. And I waited about two weeks and back, it came that you should be an architect. I mean, really, that's what I said, Okay. That's what I'll do. Like I was just, I'm an only child. So I sort of go with the flow. And then once I started looking into it, I was like, you know, this is probably the right thing for me. And I took a couple of classes. And then I just applied straight to architecture school out of high school. And I went to a five-year accredited college and went right into architecture, the minute I graduated, and haven't looked back a day in my life.
Michele 03:47
Wow. Um, I don't know as much about architecture as I do about interior design and window coverings and all of that. Was there a certain aspect of architecture that you loved more than another? Did you enjoy? residential architecture? Did you enjoy more of the commercial spaces? Like what what was it that you enjoyed when you had your architecture career separate from the interiors?
Anastasia Harrison 04:10
Its problem solving. For me, I love to problem solve, I love to fit small pieces together. So it didn't matter to me whether it was commercial or residential, it was all about looking at the rules, understanding the limits, finding the need and putting the pieces together. So my career in the beginning was huge architecture. We did monorails and airports and really huge industrial spaces. And then, you know, I morphed into interiors just throughout my career because I've, I've had like three careers it seems, but they've all led to this.
Michele 04:46
Wow, I can see that. Like how in my mind, I'm already thinking I can absolutely see how just the way that you explained like having the pieces and putting them together, which is exactly what I loved you on the business side. Are you doing that in architecture space, I can see how it fits into design. And I can also see how you could have noticed that there were some pieces missing on the follow story.
Anastasia Harrison 05:13
I was an architect for a firm, working with very high-end residential projects, huge projects, 10 to 30,000 square feet, that's like small office buildings. And what I was noticing is I was a woman on a man's team, there were nine of us, there were eight men and me. And I was always the one that was bringing up things like, well, how far is she going to have to walk with those groceries to get to the island to put them down to put them in the refrigerator? Or? What's the width of the bed between the windows? Or how are we really figuring all of the small pieces from the inside out, and they were beautiful homes. But there were those little pieces that I gravitated towards and realized that I could make a huge difference. If I shifted the focus of my career and created a niche that just doesn't exist.
Michele 06:02
I love it. And you know, it makes me think about I've been in homes before, and I look at it. And I'm like, why did they take the window and cram it into the corner? When there's all the space in the world? They could have moved out a little bit. Or why did they do this? Or who thought of that? Like, who? Or who didn't think of that? Like, what were they thinking when they did that? And not to be sexist or anything. But sometimes we would be like, well, that totally man had to think about because a woman would have known a way that that's going to work, you know, especially with things that maybe we would be doing more often. How difficult a transition was it to take that step out of more of a focused architectural firm and kind of go out on your own, and kind of this new merging of architecture into design versus kind of that, you know, that line, that delineation we are architecture and you are design, kind of the marrying of the two, how difficult was that?
Anastasia Harrison 07:02
Well, it wasn't difficult for me, right, because in my mind, it was very clear, the line was clear. But in the world, it was difficult because I have other architects that I still work with, to this day, as a partner. And I wanted to make sure that when I created my firm, that I didn't know deep value those relationships or their work but was sought after as an asset to them. Because referrals are the best way, we bring in business. So I have to keep those relationships I've had, you know, 27 years of them. And I don't want to not do well with those continuing forward. So I was very clear about the type of architecture I take on, I only take one huge project a year in architecture. But I fit in where somebody needs an architect because they have to put in building permits. But they really need an interior designer, that's the primary focus. So you would hire an architect, and they would come in and they would move the two walls, change the beam. And then you have that process. And then you have to hire the interior designer, and you'd have to go through the whole programming and understanding of it all, but I bridge that divide, and bring those two worlds together. And it works really well. In whole house projects where we're a team member, it works really well in large renovations, where it's not a lot of architecture, but you just need a little and it’s primarily interiors.
Michele 08:33
That that's really great. Because, you know, like all of us, we want to have jobs that are kind of big enough to sink our teeth into. And for an architectural firm, those are the tiny little jobs that are almost like, how do you I'm going to go out on a limb here. How do you fit that in like, it's just one wall, it's not like you're going in to get the architecture for the entire space or the entire home. And so I can see where those are, that I know from talking to designers is sometimes harder to find that architect that will come in and do the one or two little pieces and then step back out because they're wanting Yeah, you know, they're wanting the whole big thing. And I get it. I have a designer that I worked with that was doing a commercial project and a restaurant and they just needed somebody to come in and do a small piece of that and permit it and do it. And that they wouldn't do it, you know, or they had a hard time finding that resource. And so I love that you thought about in advance. Because architecture is super important. Like you said, we don't want to not only devalue the relationship, but the value of the work. You knew that because you had built a career on it for all those years and you wanted to carry that same value. But also you wanted to be able to keep those relationships like you said for the referral. So I bet that was some kind of separating. This is what I'm willing to do and if somebody calls me and they need everything else It's past your one project a year where you're willing to invest from the very beginning, everything that it takes to do, then do you go out if people call you, that's where you then start collaborating with other architects, and yes firms for them to do those things, because that's a whole business in and of itself without the interior design piece.
Anastasia Harrison 10:21
It is, and it runs pretty deep, right? So we have to worry about how we message, we have to think about how we present ourselves, what we say, on our website, in our social media, making sure that we give the accolades to the other partners that are part of the team. And it helps balance us as that design professional that's truly a team member, I think one of the important parts, especially when we're doing whole projects, you know, those kind of projects that take two years a year of planning and a year building, we have to understand the lines, who's in charge of what, and be respectful of them, and not sort of run all over the builder or the contractor or even the architect. And as the designers. We're the architect at heart or I am so I know those rules, because I've, I've had them broken for me, you know, I've had designers sort of run all over a project and do stuff and you're like, wait a minute, no, no, no, you can't just move that opening. It's not that simple. Or the reason that those windows are where they are in the room is for symmetry outside. So you want to move them inside. So let's talk about that. As opposed to sort of, you know, steam rolling the whole project. And we don't do that. Because of the lessons learned in my previous life. That's the way I've trained my team.
Michele 11:43
Because you've been on the other side. So yeah, like, Yeah, and I think sometimes that's a good reminder to, Anastasia just in general, sometimes it's really good to be on the side of the one being served instead of the side of the one serving and, and to be able to go back and forth. I know, when I've done design projects in my own home, and had to be displaced because of like painting our whole downstairs. And I was telling somebody the other day, we had dinner and lunch and breakfast for like a week in the floor of the master bedroom, because that was when they weren't painting and everything else was plasticed off, you know, you couldn't get a thing. And and it was quite humbling to remember how it felt to be on that side of the project instead of on the planning, organizing doing side of the project. Sure. I think that mindset that you brought into this, you're part of my designer's inner circle. And one of the things we talked about, is doing things with intention. And I love that when you build the business, you build it with an intention of here's kind of the middle that we're going to serve, because I've been on this side, and I've been on that side. And this is kind of where, let's say it's kind of like, like where the handoff can get dropped, or this is where it can get messy. And that's the place that you want to play want to be and want to serve.
Anastasia Harrison 13:03
Right. And, you know, it's, it's also about creating that beautiful space for the client, right. And designers have an ability to take nothing and make the most gorgeous something. And it's all about that beautiful picture at the end. But there's a process that's involved. In interior design, I've also found that sometimes there's not a linear process, it's sort of circular. So my talents as an architect, and my training was very linear. As an architect, you do schematic design, then you design, you develop the design, then you do your construction documents, then it's all built from parts and pieces. And there's a very linear approach. So I've taken that linear approach to interiors, and said, Okay, how do we stop this chasing our tail circle, you know, process that happens in interior so often, where you've got that client that just can't, they can't make their decision. They don't know what they want they, they've thrown you over the edge, and you're just now pulling other things because that's the worst place to be. Right? Where, where you're not in control. So in architecture, it's very, it's a fixed fee. It's a defined scope of work, and you get a deliverable at the end.
Michele 14:21
In into everybody's clear on the deliverables.
Anastasia Harrison 14:23
Yeah. And then interiors, it's just not like that, right. Like, it's like, I want a beautiful room. What does that mean? You know, so we define the interiors in words, in our contracts, and this isn't something we figured out in in a month or even a year. It's taken, you know, the eight plus years that I've been in business to really put the plan and the pieces in place. And as you know, from my inner circle work, you know, it's not always rainbows and butterflies, right?
Michele 14:54
It makes me think of to is okay so if we think of interior design, And I come from, you know, software development, which is very linear as well. However, to that point, and even within architecture, with any of it, we do an iterative or circular and linear together. The challenge on the design, in some cases is there's not enough linear to keep moving the project so that we spin and spin and spin and spin and spin. But even when we take a linear approach to design, we still have circular work and iterative work. But we've narrowed it down into a space so that when we come out of that decision, linner lynnie, there's that that's a mouthful, linearly, we move on to the next one, and then we begin, and then linearly, we move on versus like the whole thing spinning. You know, which leads to that out of control, feeling and knowing where, for example, even in architecture, if you get all the way to the end, and you change everything on the inside, you know, you have to go back to the beginning. And in design, the same thing happens. And often I've seen clients get all the way down and the client had either hadn't been managed, or the client was just kind of off their rocker. And they came up at the very end and changed everything without an understanding of what that meant. Like, I want it to be beautiful. Well, let's define beautiful. I always say I want something kind of funky cool in this space. I would say okay, but what is funky cool to you, because we could have completely different ideas, right? Of what that means. So you got to give me more to work with.
Anastasia Harrison 16:39
I like roles, like I need rules. As an architect you grow up with, you grew up with building codes, zoning code, so many rules, right? So but the rules define us. And the rules help you navigate the design, you figure out the design through the rules you've been given. And with interiors, you know, what are the rules the client gave you? Because you can't look at it as as reflections that they didn't let you be creative. They gave you those rules. So how can you be creative within them? And that's just the the fun part. Right? Like, I mean, yeah, we nobody likes to be told what to do. But rules make it just so much more chat. But that's me. I like I like figuring out puzzles. So I love those pieces.
Michele 17:23
I think what's interesting about that, too, you know, when you have the whole form and function conversation, I've heard it said multiple times, you can make just about anything beautiful. But that doesn't mean it works. Right. And so I love the idea of coming from this architectural background that you have that's like a superpower for sure. Because you've used the rules of architecture, to make sure that the function works. And you can use the rules of interior design to make sure that the form works. So it really marries it together. So you don't have a beautiful space. That means you got to walk around the kitchen 14 times to get to the island. Yeah, even if it's beautiful. You're like, why is the island in the family room? That doesn't? Yet I mean, I know we're being kind of crazy with that. But it is true. And I do think that there are rules, I think the other thing is that's cool about it is knowing when the rules can be broken, right knowing when maybe it's a rule in architecture, but it's one that is predicated on some set of maybe it's more like a guideline than a rule. Say yeah, and knowing that that can be broken, or that can be moved. You know, I'm seeing people now put microwaves in places that are different than they used to put microwaves and years, all of them were either in, you know, on a countertop somewhere, then they moved to they're all over the stove, and moving into drawers and over in the other part of the room or in the pantry, like I'm seeing them. And that doesn't follow the rule of everything in that little triangle but it still works.
Anastasia Harrison 18:56
Yeah, it does work. And you create new roles where, you know, when you're breaking other design roles, you have to justify that that's just good design, you justify the means to the end. And as a designer, it's your job to be the confident one. And to be the one that tell the clients. These are the rules. This is what we're doing. And this is how we're doing it to make your space beautiful. Because here's what I heard you say, I heard you say you need to use your space like this. This is how I see you use your space. And here's the design to reflect both of those things. So that that's the fun part of it all.
Michele 19:32
Alright, so when you stepped out of architecture directly and opening your own firm, that is a intentional mixture of architecture and design. Did you have an idea of what the firm would look like and who you would serve and how you would serve them?
Anastasia Harrison 19:50
No, I didn't. And that's part of the struggle that I had in understanding. I knew the service I wanted to provide. Okay, but I didn't know who my ideal client was, I didn't know my ideal process, I didn't understand the value of knowing how to run a business. Because it was all just fun, right? It was putting in furniture and changing architecture. And it was all just a good time. But part of being a good business is understanding your business, putting it all in the right light, making sure all of the pieces work, and having the right team to support you. Because the bigger the business gets, the more you start putting into the business, the less you can do on the business. So you can't always spend the total design time but you have to make sure your team understands the way you want to run the business. And they run it like you do.
Michele 20:46
I appreciate that honesty, because I think a lot of us come into business, knowing that we have the ability to do the thing of the business. The technician role, if you will, if we're looking at E-Myth Revisited the thing at that technician role. And so if you came into it, starting this new and number one, some of the rules are really not there, because you weren't modeling your business after another one that had gone before you that showed you a business plan where it was done. So you're taking pieces and putting them together into something that is new for you. All right. And then like you said, You know how you want to serve, but it's really dialing down into who needs to be served that way? Yeah. And then how do I best show up? And then I bet the net one of the next questions is, and then how did you determine what staff I need to be able to serve them the best, because you also moved out that you were the technician, and we needed to get you or I'm sure over time, you have needed to get yourself up into that higher level management position, filling in under you with the roles and responsibilities to support the growth of a firm.
Anastasia Harrison 21:57
Right. So we, you know, I started this firm, became wildly successful, and I was the technician, the marketer, the person putting invoices in the bookkeeper, I was there, everything and I was drowning. And I just didn't realize I was drowning, until I had a project go horribly wrong. It is one that will probably scar me for life. It was a wonderful project, great people. And we did things that I look back at now and think how could I have done that, like, that was just such a rookie mistake. And I had already been in the business so long. But it was because I had too many hats. And I had to stop, look back at what we were doing, and change everything. And that was that's the pinnacle of my business was that was the deciding factor to understand my business and really run it the way it needed to be run. And ever since then it's just been an evolving firm that just grows and it and it's growing nicely. Like it's, it's a nice growth, it's not hair fire anymore, which was difficult. And I think there's a lot of designers that suffer from that, where you think you have to do everything, you have to pick every piece of fabric that's in that room, you have to touch every piece of furniture, but you don't you can have a team that you've educated, supported and put processes into place so that things come to you at that level where then you make those decisions. And and then I can focus on other things.
Michele 23:34
How the was your business plan when you stepped out on your own? Was it a full on?
Anastasia Harrison 23:44
Oh, no, it was a it was a weekend of prayer and a couple of fabric books in the back of the car. I mean, for the love of God, No, it was it was let's see what we you know, I just let's just see what we can do. You know, that's really how it started. And then, very quickly, I was able to understand that I needed to wrangle, you know, wrangle this in and understand it and I started but I just didn't have the tools I needed because I've always worked for major firms. I've always worked for the kind of firm that had not hundreds of people but thousands of people all the way through, you know, when I worked in London to New York City and I never who looks at the processes that are put in place when you work at a very large firm, you do what they say. You sit down at your drawing board and you know there are a list of layers you draw from their list of vendors you pull from. You have a question somebody has an answer. You don't create you just work within the pieces that you're given and going out on my own was completely different. Right? I had no rules, no guidelines.
Michele 24:50
And I'm someone who likes rules.
Anastasia Harrison 24:53
So I had to really just try to figure it out and trial by error, sadly to say but I think that's pretty normal.
Michele 25:01
Okay, so you didn't come out with like this great big, I know it was wildly successful, but wildly successful doesn't always result in wildly profitable. I know yours was profitable. But you know, I'm just saying for those listening, that that's not always an equal sign between the two, based on how we define success, but over time over these and I know you're still in the process of as we're working together in your coaching. But over time, you also have more defined ideal client ID project, ideal work, profitability metrics, all of the things that you need to but like, what is that process been like for you?
Anastasia Harrison 25:42
Oh, it's been really wonderful, like, wildly wonderful, because I just gave a corporate sort of what I called it state of the state meeting, you know, because we had COVID this year, and it really walloped everybody. And we were able to, we were able to ride the tide. Thank God, who knows what the next wave is going to give us. But a I put together with a lot of help from the last year. What's the state of the company? Where are we? What's our gross profit margin? Who are our vendors? How do we make money and I presented that to my team, I presented it to them in a fashion that was really simple and beautiful pictures, of course, it has to be with our you know, design. But it got them all thinking about how we do business. Now, we're six people, that's a pretty big team. But everybody has a role in that bottom line, gross profit margin, you're looking at that gross profit margin, and everybody's responsible for it. It's not just me, where before I thought that all was my doing. And I would have to pay people to do different pieces of this job without giving them that responsibility to be part of that success. So in giving them the information and the metrics, they now understand and are thinking about things. So we have one person that does procurement, all she does is procurement. But now she understands the business model, the growth projections, and you know where we want to be. She's already looking at our vendors and saying, Okay, well, we bought this much from this one this year, we need to buy X amount to get to this level, which will save us approximately this much money for next year. Like, I need critical thinking skills, and you need that all the way through your business, you need it in your bookkeeper procurement, but even designers need to think about it too. Because I don't, I don't want to say we're going to just buy one brand, because we need to make our minimums. That's not it at all, the design has to be primary. But we also have to be cognizant that the business has to run at a certain profit level. So maybe there are three lines that I would like you to focus on, because we need to bring up those minimums this year. Well, what are they? Do they have anything that you're looking for? If not fine, go somewhere else. But start there. Let's start there. Right?
Michele 28:07
I looked at your state of the state, it was so nice. And I was so excited for you. And one of the things that that we talk about often is making certain that our teammates, employees, you know, whoever is working with you, your firm, making sure they understand how their roles and responsibilities fit into the business. Because back to your point, when you were working for these large firms with thousands of people, you're sitting there just doing and I don't mean just in a derogatory way. But I'm focused and doing only what they've asked you to do not thinking about the process, not thinking because they didn't invite you in to think about it. Right? Somebody else was doing that, that type of thinking, but they never invited you into that. Therefore, when you go out on your own to start your business you didn't have, you didn't even know what to think about in those cases, because you've had not been given a chance to do it. And so one of the things we always talk about is, you know, we want to make certain that we reward, the attitudes and the work that we want to continue. And so when you have employees that are doing this critical thinking in a right way for the business within the parameters, I'm going to say, air quote rules of the company, here's our gross profit margin, here's where we're going to be, here's what the net profit margin should look like, here's what we're trying to work with. And when you're having those conversations, they now start to see how what they do creates the impact, how leaving the lights on can create an impact in the net profit of the company. You know, I mean, past gross profit all the way down at the end, maybe going out to run errands four times a week is going to cost us more in time. That what if I were to put it all together and do it all within two hours on one day. I mean, they start to think priority and they start to think about time as a currency and money as a currency. And if I can save the company here would be more efficient here or more effective here, then we can do that. So then what it does is it excites them. I know that your team was excited, because you sent me a note and told me they were. But they get excited, because now they feel like they had a hand in reaching the goal. Whereas before it's Anastasia's goal, like, and they're over here, just doing what I'm told, you've now invited them into that entire process. And you've been working on this. I know for the last year, because we've been working together, but you've been working on inviting them in what do you think, what do you feel, here's where we're going, here's what and so now they see it as much their dream is your dream?
Anastasia Harrison 30:48
Yeah. And it's changed, it's changed everything in the office, everybody has a very defined role that they help to create, we meet personally for a check in for a coffee or just a quick bite to eat once a month together as just employer employee, and it's sort of no rules, say whatever's on your mind, if I did something you didn't like, you know, or if you did something I didn't like, and then there's no, there's no grudges, there's no nothing negative that comes out of that it's all positive, and I want to help them grow. Right? Right. I, I don't want to own this company all by myself and have some business on an ivory tower, it's all about having a good time together, creating beautiful spaces, and having happy team, you know, if I don't have that, then it's just miserable.
Michele 31:45
It is miserable. So I know that that's something that you implemented within the last few months, the one on one with each employee. And, and we and I love how we talked about doing it in a very general way, not making it it's not like you're doing the yearly performance, you know, performance thing. But I'm also interested in how, if you've tried doing some, while your office space is a little more open, so you probably can't do a real one on one. Without other people around,
Anastasia Harrison 32:19
I guess, we leave the office.
Michele 32:21
And that's what I was going to say I was curious, if you had seen a difference, you may not have this comparison between doing that one on one in the office versus doing that one on one, somewhere else. I know, for example, I know that when my sons were younger, there were a couple of times that we needed to discipline them. And we of course, discipline them in the home, because that's where we always are. And there were a couple of times where there were things that we really needed to, I'm going to say discipline and guide, not punish, but discipline and guide our sons. And I took them out for ice cream or took them to the park. Yeah, I'm somewhere else outside of the home. Because I wanted to remove some barriers, we could really dig into the issue in a more relaxed way that didn't feel like to your mom at the ivory tower coming down on the kid. And by going out and kind of setting a different seen for that openness and for communication, we were able to get farther with our kids doing that. Right. Didn't expect it sometimes then if we were to come down and try to have that conversation in our home. And the same thing is true in an office environment.
Anastasia Harrison 33:35
But the other the other part of these little meetings is I send them two questions two questions that I'm asking them that month and things that they want to ask me that month. And I give them one negative comment and one positive comment. You were so great this month in your actions doing x that was so helpful with the team, whatever it may have been. And maybe a negative one where you know, at that meeting, perhaps we weren't as ready. But I don't do it in a negative fashion. I'll say, perhaps we weren't as ready as we should have been for that presentation. Tell me what you think some of the supporting tools would have been for you to have been better prepared for that meeting. How can I help you get there? Yeah, right. Mm hmm. Right. But I learned from that too sure. They'll say something like, well, you gave us three other deadlines the same week and I you know, like so I'll look back and say, You know what, you're right. I, I need to change that.
Michele 34:35
Right. I overstocked you with work and there was no way that that was a you know, maybe I'm a did a deadline that was just not able to be met. So let me ask this because I know that I recommend this all the time. And not everybody gets right on board with it because they feel like it makes them nervous. And they'll say sometimes they don't have time for it. But I would almost push back or I would push back I guess it wouldn't even mean almost and Say, you almost can't afford not to. And we're not talking about a staff of 30. But with a staff of four to six, you guys work in close proximity. And I also know because of the feedback you and I have had together, when your staff comes to do that, what they start to think is Anastasia cares. And the, you know how we talked about my doors always open. And people giggle about Yeah, right. This actually shows the open door and gives an opportunity to catch issues quickly. But what it also does is it forces you to keep your eyes open to watch, because you're also looking for the good.
Anastasia Harrison 35:38
Right. So just sort of going back to the beginning of our conversation in architecture, through architecture school, you had these things called design crits. And you would have to, maybe they have them in interior design school, I'm not sure but you would work your hardest you would work all night you draw, you'd color, or you'd be on the computer. And the next morning, you'd stand there like a zombie and present your design. And there were people who would openly critique your work, and tell you what you could have done better. And it's extremely painful, because you're sort of standing there. But it's extremely enlightening to because from a different perspective, if you're willing to take in that information someone's giving with, you know, giving you the time and sharing it with you, then you can grow as an employee or as, as, as a person. So that has always been something that was really fundamental, from my training, you know, like in college, and something that I've really put, I don't think I've ever had the company where we didn't have reviews or times where we talked to each other just openly about how we can be better.
Michele 36:55
I also love the method that you use, because after you, okay, so we know that they have the two questions and things are working on, we also know you have the positive negative, but just kind of that free form conversation around a cup of coffee allows even just for you to get a glimpse into their life that might be a little bit more a little bit different than what they would get in the workspace. Maybe there's just something they want to talk about, you know, that's just been on their heart. Or perhaps they have a suggestion or an idea for something else that they see. They now really feel like they have the freedom to raise that it may be one of the two questions or the next month that you're looking at.
Anastasia Harrison 37:38
Right, it's true.
Michele 37:40
How have they responded to it Anastasia? Were they shocked when you first offered it?
Anastasia Harrison 37:44
Yeah, they were.
Michele 37:44
In a little bit more of a horrible way. They're like where they
Anastasia Harrison 37:48
I remember the very first one because it was it was when COVID sort of at the beginning of COVID. And I had gone over to one of my employees passes and we sat on her porch. And she was like, are we in trouble here? Like she's very, you know? And I'm like, No, no, no, I just I want to know how you are. You know, the world is crazy right now. And I just I just want to touch base with everybody. And you know, and it was it was also a time when we didn't know what the next three months was going to give us. You know, we didn't know if we'd be open today or not. And it was just a really wonderful, we both got such a wonderful experience from it. I'm like, I got to do this every month with every employee.
Michele 38:30
Yeah, I really do think it's a great practice. And so I want to encourage if anybody's listening in and they don't do it, you can do it once a month, I have some of my businesses do it twice a month, every two weeks. If you have a really large staff, then a lot of times what we do is we have you as the owner of the company, do it with your direct reports, and then let them do it with their direct reports. Right. So that it's not so much.
Anastasia Harrison 38:52
But I think it's important, somebody should do it. Even if they only have one employee. I agree one part time employee, you should do it.
Michele 39:01
I've said this multiple times. But I'll say it again, there's the statement. This is people don't leave bad companies, they leave bad managers. Right? And that was that whole they, don't I can't remember the whole quote Anastasia, maybe you'll remember but something about people don't know. Something about not knowing how much you care until they know how much you care. I mean, they really want to know that you care about them as people, not just that you care about them as employees. Because then they want to be part of it and do it. So that's been a huge part of your business's success is building team and building out their skill sets and putting the right team in place right and growing your people. So that was the next question I was actually going to ask you so I'm glad you lead us right into it. Given that your firm kind of rides a little bit down the middle between the architecture and the design in some areas. Not in all. But you do have that little specialty, has it made some of your hiring decisions different? I'm not going to say more difficult, but maybe just different than if you were hiring straight architecture or straight interior design. Is there a Is there a more blended skill set? Is there something else? different character traits? You know, what, is there something different?
Anastasia Harrison 40:23
Yeah, that yes, I think, at first, when I was pulling this business together, maybe three or four years ago, when it was sort of really moving, and I had a plan. When I developed that plan, about four years ago, I didn't have the definition of who that person was, or those employees. I had, the employees I had, and we had the skill sets we had, I'm looking back at that, I can see that that was probably a mistake, I should have understood the skill sets I needed. But I didn't know what I didn't know. And you and I've discussed this before you don't you got to walk before your crawl. So I had to figure out what I needed first, in order to go out and get the right employees. So I had to find somebody that had a similar skill set to me to really be a senior designer, somebody that had that architecture experience has the understanding that the world is bigger than sofas and paint. And that there are connective pieces and design elements that you questions that you ask that are just greater than the immediate need. And interior design. Sometimes it's just about the immediate need, like I need a new sofa. That's an easy answer. But those aren't really the projects that we do well that we do well at whole home projects. So there's a lot more that goes into that. So the skill set, we had to break it down. And I did that with you and really understood what's the ideal employee look like. And then I thought we put some ads out there, we were going to get exactly what we needed. And the world showed us that we needed something different. So all the planning in the world sometimes doesn't give you what you need, but the world does. And it's all worked out wonderfully. Because since we knew what we needed, we were able to evaluate the skill set. Do they have drafting skills? Do they have 3D skills? Do they have computer skills? And then more importantly, do they have great verbal communication skills? Do they have project management skills? Are they organized? Are they you know, foot? One of the things that I always look for in employees is are they forward thinkers? Can someone sink forward? And what I mean by that is, I know what I need to do today, but am I anticipating what's going to happen tomorrow, or the next day or the next day? And those are the skills that I was looking for and every team member I have? That's the one underlying trait I think is the most important to me.
Michele 42:55
Just thinking and forward thinking absolutely is, you know, I remember when we first started working together, one of our first exercises was we I drew up on the whiteboard that I usually coach with behind me, I drew up the organization that you had, yep, started talking. And then we talked about, and we had people and their names, you know, because it was the true organization. And then we talked about the business that you were growing into your 1, 2, 3, 5 year plan. And we drew an organization, kind of a five year plan. And then we drew one that was kind of in the middle, how do we get from where we are to where we want to go, we didn't put names anywhere by foot positions. But we knew the work that needed to be done. And then we started moving people over into those positions and determining which positions were open. And what do we go look for now. And it's so fun months later to see that working and see it coming about. But that's that critical thinking just like, like your comment was, sometimes it's about solving a need in front of you, I need a sofa. Sometimes it's about designing the whole house. And when you came to me, it wasn't like, I need this one thing, it was less design the next three to five years of where we're going. So it's the parallels are still there. It's that forward thinking critical thinking piece that we have to do in our business the same way we do it for our clients. I mean, you're doing that same way of thinking that same process, if you will, for your clients on a daily basis. And we have to give ourselves space to step back and allow us to use that genius to think about our business the same way.
Anastasia Harrison 44:41
Yeah. And it's and it's nothing's quick, right? Nothing is in a week, I bought into a couple of silly little systems where I would buy into a system and I'm like, Okay, this is it. This is how we're going to do it. This will solve every problem. And you're going to do it like this and you're going to do like the NSA. It just doesn't work. There's no, there's no elevator ride to the top.
Michele 45:04
No, no, there's just not a if it were that isn't, as my husband says, if it were that easy, everybody would do it. That's not that easy. But I will say this. And this is something that I think you and your team have had to weather as have, I think, all of us during this past year, and that is being as committed to the journey as we are to the outcome. Right? Not just committed to being the business we want to be, but committed to everything that it's going to take to get there committed to having the once a month coffee's with you committed to critically thinking about how my job fits in committed to critically thinking about how can we save money? How can we put money aside, what happens if COVID restrikes, or anything else that would cause us to have a delay in work? What does that look like? How do we solve it. And I have seen a lot of that growth with your team, you know, due to you and what you've done to invite them into that. But you know, you made the comment and min ago and it made me think when sometimes when we first start our companies, we think we have to be the one to do all those pieces and parts, whether it's run the business, choose the sofa, choose the paint, move the beam, in your case, whatever it may be, yeah. And as the business and we can get, we can do that the business is going to remain small, because there's only so much capacity that we have to do all of those things well, right. And as the business gets larger and larger and larger, it's really realizing that for the that it's not about Anastasia, it's about the firm, right. And you know, when I am A Fix This Next coach, and when we talk about legacy, you know, we start with sales, and then profitability and an order and an impact and legacy. When we talk about the legacy of what you're building. It's about I want to work with HD and Co, not I want to work with Anastasia, like, right, and you have worked really hard over this last. I know you It's been more than just the time you and I've been together. But certainly over the time that we've worked intensely together to figure out how do we keep moving you up out of some of those tiny little things, and then training correctly, you or the staff under you training below them, so that you have the support, so that then the impact actually is larger than what you could ever have had by yourself.
Anastasia Harrison 47:39
Sure. And it's the key part is training me. Training me to just pull back and allow the team to do the things that they're good at. I used to run every financial report myself, I used to pull all the numbers, I used to look at my individual accounts, negotiate with the reps, meet every, every client and every design meeting, I don't need to be there now. And this, the more I stay away, and I stay, I stay involved. But the more I let the team do the work, the stronger their work is.
Michele 48:19
And the more you get to step away,
Anastasia Harrison 48:22
Yeah, and then, and then I can grow it, I grow it another way.
Michele 48:25
That's right, and build other things and do other things. So it's a growth process for you. And it's a growth process for the team. And I think you're doing a really, really great job of it. Let me ask you this, what are some of your big goals for your company in the next three to five years.
Anastasia Harrison 48:42
Three to five years, we met our goal this year, which I never thought we would. And you know, we have a building that's only 650 square feet. And one of my goals in three years is to put an expansion on this building and put a storefront in the front and have bigger offices in the back. Because as we look at our business model, it's nice to say, Oh, I'd like to have a business that's, I don't know, $2 million, $3 million, $4 million, whatever it is. But you have to understand the impact of staff when you say I want a company that's this big. And how many people does it take you to get those dreams, goals and desires? So when I look at that, I know I can't run a business, the size that I'm looking to go in three years in this space. So I have to figure out how do I how do I make savings? How do I position myself? And how do we make those transitions and my goal is to put in additional spending and then in five years, it's to have a second location. So, you know, I'm putting all those micro steps into play. And we're saving money every month in order to let that really happen. And for the first time, I think I know where we're where we're headed, as opposed to wondering, right? My entire business own owning my own business, I have wandered to new places, and not known how I've gotten there. Looking back was always the way I figured it out, right? It's like following a trail of breadcrumbs, as opposed to following a map. And right now I'm following a map. And it's just easier. And it's so much more fun.
Michele 50:30
Well, I love helping you create the map, because that's the way I like to work. And I've done it the other way too. But my thought was always, if I had to look back and see breadcrumbs, if I couldn't see the breadcrumbs, then I'm always I was always hoping I could recreate it, instead of knowing that I could recreate it or knowing what steps I took that worked and which ones didn't, right, and the confidence that you get, when you know your process, you know how long it's going to take you to get a great result, you can go in to those indecisive clients. And you could say, I'm sorry, that schedule doesn't meet my requests and my demands, and this is how you would have to work with me. So from the beginning, I've changed the conversation, change the story. And I'm no longer at their demands, we're working more as an equal partnership.
Michele 51:24
And that really is what gives the client the best outcome and your team the best outcome as well. Again, you're mixing all the things and coming out right there with that. Yeah, so Anastasia, tell everybody where they can find you, what's your website where you're hanging out online.
Anastasia Harrison 51:41
So you can follow us at everybody makes fun because they, you know my initials, it's Anastasia Harrison, and then design D. So it's AHD and Co. So don't mix that up with ADHD, but AHDandCo.com is our website and Instagram, Facebook, it's all the same handle, AHD and Co,
Michele 52:03
Perfect. And I'll have all that in the show notes so that everybody can see it. Thank you so much for taking the time to explain how you have taken the love of architecture and the love of design and pulled them together so that you could actually serve your clients in a deeper way than if you were, you know, simply staying on one aisle or the other and really creating a team effort there. So I really appreciate the conversation today.
Anastasia Harrison 52:28
Thank you, Michele.
Michele 52:29
Thank you Have a good one. Thanks.
Michele 52:30
Thanks, Anastasia for sharing today. I love how she mentioned that growing a business is a process and each step moves you further down the line. She's now working with a map forward as she described it, instead of following a breadcrumb trail looking backwards. Maybe you need help with creating the map forward for your business. If so, I would love to help you do that. You can learn more at Scarlet Thread consulting.com Let's get on a call and move you forward so you can enjoy the process more. I love creating profitable businesses and it certainly doesn't happen by accident.