128: Growing Your Design Business By Collaborating

Michele  00:00

Hello, my name is Michele and you're listening to profit is a choice. Lori May of Lori May interiors is with me today on the podcast. Lori started her business by blogging, which led to rapid growth and opportunity to be on HGTV. And now the opportunity to run a full-service design business with the team. Lori's passion to make the ordinary extraordinary comes through in our conversation. She focuses on building trust with her clients and vendors and enjoys the collaboration aspect of design the most listening as she shares her story.

Michele  00:39

Every day empowered entrepreneurs are taking ownership of their company financial health and enjoying the rewards of reduced stress and more creativity. With my background as a financial software developer, owner of multiple businesses in the interior design, industry, educator and speaker, I coach women in the interior design industry to increase their profits, regain ownership of their bottom line and to have fun again in their business. Welcome to profit as a choice. Hey, Lori, welcome to the podcast.

Lori May  01:10

Hey, Michele, thanks for having me.

Michele  01:12

Oh, it's my pleasure. I am so excited to talk to you today and to share a bit of your story and your journey and your growth and kind of your even your profitability journey as we go through it all. And it's just a delight to have you and I've worked together for quite a few years. And I'm going to tell just a brief story of when I met you because I think it's I was thinking about it even yesterday, and preparing for our time together. And you and I met at the home of another designer who had hosted a luncheon to introduce me to a lot of her design friends in the Atlanta area. And she invited you all there. I remember you were in a cute orange. And oh gosh, like a little jacket like a

Lori May  02:01

Trench coat.

Michele  02:01

Yes, a little short, orange trench coat. I thought you're adorable. And what was so weird to me was I can't remember if I had come to your event first or you came to my event first I think I came to your event first. You had just done an engagement at  ADAC our Atlanta Decorative Arts Center for the WCC a the window covering all the all the acronyms, right like all the letters. And I, of course was in that group. And I came I was asked President of the National at that point. And I was listening to you share about your time on HGTV which we're going to talk about in a few minutes. You were sharing some of your journey and lessons learned and that kind of thing. And I remember I think I came up to you. And I was like I said, I'm either I'm going to meet you in a couple of weeks, I knew that you were invited. But there were some ways that we connected that we were getting ready to meet again. And then at the luncheon it was all within like two-week timeframe, my acting I mean, it was like one of those things. We've never met somebody in your life. And all of a sudden, I met an event where you're speaking and you're an event where I'm speaking and we're like, oh, like two little magnets in the middle Z's family room. And I just remember, it was it was May of 2013. And I remember you saying to me, I'm exhausted. I am absolutely exhausted. And I'm not sure I love what I do. But I no longer have a passion for it. Because I'm so exhausted. And we agreed to work together for the summer to determine if you should go back to another business, keep your business change your bit. Like how just to help you breathe. And we were like right

Lori May  03:55

Or shut it down.

Michele  03:58

I do get hired on occasion to say, should I shut this down? Should I go. And it's not always even about the money. I'm not good. The money's not a part of it for some people, but I'm just saying sometimes it could be I get a call that says everything. Like I'm making money, all the all the processes are in place. But I'm personally not sure if this is what I want to do anymore. Whatever, right? We'll talk about what got you to that point. But I am happy to say here we are recording this at the end of 2020. And you're still in business and still going forward. So yay, to seven years ago. Have some conversations. But before we jump into where what got you to that moment, I would love to hear Lori for you to share with everybody kind of what your career looked like before you got into the design because you have a very interesting kind of pathway into where you are now. And I think that some of the work that you did way prior to this sets the stage for the type of I would say exceptional businesswoman that you are, I mean, I've told you since day one, like I'm, I've always been super impressed with the way you think through things you're not, you're not you just know that you don't have emotions, but you're not emotionally driven, you do a lot of analytics around what you do and why you do it and how you do it. So tell us about what your career was prior to design.

Lori May  05:24

Okay, so I was in retail America, and it was a corporate America that I should say in retail. And so I worked for two companies that no longer exist, and Service Merchandise, which had nothing to do with me, by the way, but Service Merchandise, and the Bombay company, and I was a buyer for both of those companies. So that sets the foundation for my business, education, I suppose. And, and with the Bombay company, when I went to work for them, I also did design. So when you were a buyer, you designed your own products, you had your several different hats, you had to be in charge of your profitability of your department. But you also were heavily involved in the design of the items that you put out in the stores. And so it was a close knit little family. And it was just a very few number of buyers. And we traveled all over the world. And we designed products in Europe, in Asia, we were all over the world all the time. And, and to be honest, and that got that was a great education. But it was also hard. It was hard. And when we left there, and I went to work with a vendor, who was one of our vendors at Bombay company, so I was designing product no longer in charge of the business side of things and designing products for them, but still doing heavy heavy travel. And and once I had my first daughter, and then my second daughter, we decided that was no longer a great option for us, because it's really hard to have two babies and travel all over the world all the time. So what I had always done in my spare time was design and interior design for family friends. And it was just a nice transition. And between what I did was product design. And and what then I started doing in home design. And when my youngest was born, I decided to start doing that full time. But I started because everyone at that time was doing it with a blog. And because that's what I can do at two o'clock in the morning when I'm doing feeding, you know, I can do whatever I wanted. And because my time was somewhat my own with two small children. And so I started the blog, and then started doing in house interior design after that.

Michele  07:38

So when you started your blog, because I'm you know, everybody with blogs are still around, you know, there was talk about they would, they would be around, they wouldn't be around. And I will say back in the day, I read a lot more blogs, I don't read as many these days. Because now we have podcast and we have blogs, and we have just social media has ramped up. We have so many ways of communicating. But back in the day, we're talking 10 years ago, right? Something like that, right?

Lori May  08:12

Oh, at least 10 years ago,

Michele  08:13

When did you start your blog? Do you happen to remember what year that was? I mean, I know you and I met in 2013. And you could already have the blog, worked through and done everything else.

Lori May  08:22

So it has to be at least 2010 and probably 2008 was probably more valid. And with that, I don't remember exactly.

Michele  08:36

I knew that it would have been well over 10 years. So. So you started the blog and when you started it, Lori, I'm curious, did you were you mostly talking about the design that you're doing in your own home? Or the design that you were doing for family and friends? Or? Or do you remember?

Lori May  08:52

You know, it was more for me from an education standpoint? Yes, it was about projects in our own home what we had done. And blogging was a bit different than I think too. And so it now it's very easy to say, Oh, yeah, I was just talking exactly about what I was doing in my house. It wasn't as much like that to me as it for me it was more education and what I saw and colors that I liked and, and the exterior of our house and things we were doing with that, but it was not as intimate as it can sometimes be now I didn't have and maybe that's part of my personality, too. I didn't I wasn't inviting people into my daughter's nursery necessarily. And so it was a little different in that respect, but it was education based like that was my goal was just to teach people what I knew.

Michele  09:42

And I do remember you being kind of very clear on having that separation of this is my family, my private family. And this is my blog, and you're right there you know now we have all the social media influencers and everything else that are like showing you you know, kind of like reality. TV and they're showing you things sometimes more than they need to. But you you always kind of had that more of a separation because you didn't even remember us having the conversation and you're going, I don't necessarily want people asking me about all the private details of my children's life. Like, I don't think that's theirs for consumption. And so you were very cautious. I mean, you showed that you had a family, but it wasn't. It wasn't too deep in do you know what I mean? Well, they'll literally thought they were your best friend when they met you. Yeah. All right.

Lori May  10:33

It was a different time.

Michele  10:37

Blogs were different back then. I mean, I remember when all the RSS feeds and they would come in. And now I'm like, stop the feeds, though. I want to go get what I want. I don't, unless it's something really special. I don't want it coming in. And so you really poured your heart into the blog, because I bet it wasn't like also a creative outlet for you at that time.

Lori May  10:58

Absolutely. Because I had lost all of that, you know, not that I didn't love my children. But I had never stayed home. Ever. I had always worked since I was 14, I had worked. So to be home was was a very daunting thing. Even with my first daughter, I was working throughout that entire time. And so once I was home with both of them, it was a it you know, I was I needed that. Just for my sanity. I really did.

Michele  11:26

I felt the same way. Yeah, you know, because I worked up until my youngest was a year old. And I came home the day before his first birthday. And then I was like, Okay, now what am I going to do? Right? Because I had, I'd worked and had a job and you know, had been doing things since I was young girl. Well, and I did not see myself as the, um, I did not think that I could be completely fulfilled by doing housework and caring for my children. That wasn't enough for me. Or it just left me with a feeling of I have so much more that is being stunted. And it's not that those things aren't important, because I love that like I love I loved cooking for them. I loved your clean home, I loved those things. But there was something in me that was like, it's got to get out. There was an expression that I needed to have, like, we were even laughing with some friends. I was like, Yes. So the first thing I did was went to my kids church like preschool and said, Oh, can I put in a computer system for you? Because I don't have a way to track the kids. And let me I do computers like that was what I did. Let? Can I do that for? Free? Right? I'll just put in a computer system for the church. But it gave me that outlet. It gave me something for you. And then it morphed. And okay, so you poured into the blog, you did that for multiple years? And did you start off thinking that the blog would be your business? Or did you just think that it was a way to share what you were doing in the business of design? Like how did you view the blog when you started? Or did you even think that that way? Because it was different back then again, people weren't looking to monetize the blog. Right? They were looking at putting information out?

Lori May  13:11

I don't think I did think that far ahead with it, I think it was more of a creative outlet. But there were thoughts of mine that, yes, I can monetize this. And I can make but that that, that quickly changed as just so many people got on to doing blogging, and the business side of me said, this is not going to be the kind of money that I want to make. Because it just wasn't it wasn't enough creative outlet for me. And there were no other people, I needed people. And so blogging was a very solitary thing to do. And that's what got me out of blogging, to be honest, because I started, I did meet some amazing women that I am still close with today through blogging. Um, and now we just have a personal relationship in person. Yeah, instead of through blogging, and it just morphed from the blog into I have to be with people. And and so those those women were my more my outlet, and they were also mom. And they were in similar places, as me and so we just kind of figured out what do we own want to do and supported each other and that and that was, you know, honestly, meeting you, too, that was in part of that time, even though several years later was still in that metamorphosis of where I went where I started where I wanted to be, and it had just gotten kind of out of control.

Michele  14:34

Right? So okay, so you, you work corporate, and in the retail world you're designing, you come home with the kids, and you start continuing your kind of your side hustle your enjoyment of design, you put out this blog, and you start meeting people meeting other designers and friends that way and, um, and then you sum up how do I forget your work caught the eye of somebody that was connected to HGTV.

Lori May  15:08

Right? I did a group, it was a group of blogging women. And we worked on a nonprofit project, redesigning rooms in a homeless shelter. And every every blogger slash designer took a room. And these were homes for women and children. And so each of us knew we didn't, we never met our clients, obviously. But we knew mine was a mom with two little boys. And in a room that was a closet, but it was their room. And so each of us to go room and design that room, and HGTV saw that project. And you know, the rest is history, and interviewed several of us from that project.

Michele  15:55

And then you had the opportunity to be on HGTV.

Lori May  16:00

I did, I did it was a, it was back when I guess they still do this on some of the Food Network shows, but they had design wars. And so they did basically pick three designers against each other, we were very friendly. And with one family and you design separate rooms, and the same in the home, family home, and the family chose a winner. And that's how that's the basic premise of the show. And really, you know, doing that before I had any processes in place, no assistance, like I was beg borrowing feeling to get this project done. But it was one of those things where it was just such an amazing opportunity at the time, and you have to remember HGTV was also very different 10 years ago than it is now.

Michele  16:47

as well around 2010-11 when all that happened,

Lori May  16:52

Yeah. Yeah, a lot more smaller shows, not all the you know, long term big show what I would consider big. And not overly high end, you know, very, not that it's super high end now. But it's it's much different than it was then, you know, design on a dime, it's so popular, those kind of shows are still out there. There were a lot of small ships. And it was a great experience. It was an It was a jumping off point for my business, my confidence. And then everything else just kind of follows from there.

Michele  17:28

So, you know, we won't leave everybody with a cliffhanger you want your show. Not surprising. Um, so coming from all of that with the blog, I remember to having the conversation. are you sharing in hindsight? how afraid you were when they called you up? Am I an imposter? Do I know Do I have Can I do this. But as you mentioned, recognizing that these opportunities don't come along every single day. And if there is a way that I can get in and do this, then I want to do it, I'd rather kind of go out trying and say that I tried, then I didn't. And I think that's what makes you so good at business. If you and I talked about this right before we came on the air. It's not that you you are a planner, you are an analyzer. But I love that in that moment, in multiple moments, even with the blog, you don't so over analyze, you don't get into that analysis paralysis in most cases, you analyze, analyze, analyze, you get comfortable enough, and then you take a few steps. How does because I've seen that play out given that you and I've been together for seven, eight years now. How do you see that as moving you from one thing to the next because I can imagine? Well, I've worked with multiple designers who have been on HGTV or some of those similar programs, they get called and they were like, Oh my goodness, you know, you want to show I have another client who would want a house and you know, there are opportunities but it is going to be scary and it's a lot of work.

Lori May  19:06

The amount of work can't be understated that is and I think there's some something good about not knowing how much work it is before you do it. Yeah, but I work hard. I've never been afraid of working hard. And and I have fear over a lot of things. Fear of trying new things within my business is not one of those fears. And to me I refuse to let one of those opportunities pass me by without trying it. I would rather fail. Doing it. Then say I didn't try because I was too afraid.

Michele  19:41

Were you raised that way Lori? Were you raised to try it and do I remember one of them. Sara Blakely said was she said at the dinner table at night her dad would ask them where did you fail today? And so he removed the stigma of failing and made it as the thing where you you reached out you put yourself out there, you tried something different or new. And so many people are so afraid of failing. And I'm not talking about just doing stuff without even thinking about it. But they're just that fear of failure is, is real. And like you said, we all have them. But where do you think that stems from that willingness to try within your skill set within your, your business within the realm of possibility?

Lori May  20:25

My and I mean, neither of my parents into college, and I grew up in a very blue-collar family, and very rural part of West Tennessee. And all I was ever taught was you get as much education as you can, and you work as hard as you can, every day. And that's all I ever saw. And was every member of my family working really, really hard. And my mom worked. I think that was helpful. I think that for me to see that. But it wasn't, I didn't have a lot of introspective conversations at the dinner table is necessarily It was about how hard we were working, where we honest, were we doing our best. And, and then there was just a huge amount of support there for whatever we chose to do. And, as a woman, though, as a female, I didn't have a lot of role models in the workforce. But my role models were extremely strong women, all of the women in my family are extremely strong willed. And so I think that just morphed into whatever I chose to do. Yeah. But yeah, it really comes from a work ethic, I think more than than anything.

Michele  21:44

So you do the blog, you get you do the nonprofit, you get recognized for HGTV you get on TV, you win your show. And the phone starts ringing. Well, the phone was already ringing from before. So then you start getting recognized, even edit at a wider, deeper level and bigger projects now. But because of that, like you said, it's a jumping off point, other things start happening. I met you Not long after all of that had wrapped up and you had work, you know, as we would say, here in the south, coming out of your ears like you had work. You had so much work and you were still by yourself in the business, where you coming from corporate and doing all that when you started all of this, I don't think you had a full on business plan. If I remember correctly, you did have some planning, but maybe not a written business plan. How long are or what was it when you realize that I'm doing all this work, but I'm not as profitable as I want to be? Because you you've had money coming in, it wasn't that you weren't making some money. But I remember, I remember one of the first you went on one of my first private retreats. Mm hmm. And I remember going through and teaching everybody how to read the p&l. And I remember you being like, Okay, this is not what I want. At the end of the day. Like now that I see this is not the numbers that I wanted it. No, it was positive, but it wasn't as positive as we want.

Lori May  23:19

It was barely positive.

Michele  23:20

Barely positive. And I remember us looking at the amount of money that was running through your company and the amount of time that you were taking away from your family and your children. And going. Okay, now that is that whole Maya Angelou now that I know better, I'm going to do better. You have been a sponge since day one. And you're like, I know all of this, but I don't know this. Teach me this. Okay. I don't know this. But I know this teach me this. How wasit that you was that one of the first profit real profitability conversations? After you and I started getting together? Or I think instead and instinctually, you knew, and that was why you were having kind of that crisis moment. There's so much work coming in. I don't know that I'm bringing home the money I should be bringing home for all the  work coming in.

Lori May  24:12

Yeah, I was completely overwhelmed. I mean, the main reason was that I wasn't charging what I needed to be charging. I mean, ultimately, it comes down to that. I also hadn't made the transition from Hobby to business, in a real world kind of way. So I still had a certain amount of guilt of what I was taking away from my family, that I wasn't supporting my kids and my husband the way that I felt like I should have from an emotional standpoint. And and I, I hadn't gotten straight in my head that this is a business. And in order for this to be a business, I can be home with my kids. Or I can make this a business and make it a real thing, right. So if I wasn't making the money for the amount of work I was taking for the amount of time taking away from my family.

Michele  25:02

Also putting barriers in place, right and kind of started putting up some boundaries, like the kind of some work boundaries between you and your client and who does what, and here's how I charge and here's what's expected of you client, and then boundaries around your home life because your girls needed you and they were growing, right? We're getting bigger, and how do we separate so that the clients where it doesn't encroach on that, so that you could have removed some of the that that mom get, I used to always tell my husband, I felt like I'm stink as a parent. And as a business owner, like, you know, it's just, I'm horrible. Because I can't get my act together is what I kept hearing. That was like my internal dialogue, until I realized my husband never felt for the most part, it might just say it never happened, because that would probably be unfair. I don't remember us ever having a conversation that he felt guilty because he got up to go to work. I don't remember having a conversation that he felt guilty, that something at work needed to be done at a certain time. And I was like, why am I I'm putting that on myself. If he wasn't putting it on me, the kids, you know, may or may not, but they were kids. That was but nursed it on myself. And so I remember us having a lot of those conversations trying to kind of figure out, you know, we throw the word around balance, but what was the right home life balance for you in that season? Because you're in a very different season now. So let's let's move us through a little bit after the HGTV you and I met and, you know, the family room of another diner. And we connected and started working together. And your business at that time? Was you actually trying to figure out? Do I need to keep the blog going? Or can I stop the blog, it's become a huge overwhelm. Because the amount of work, the actual design work had taken over so much time, right? You didn't have the hours and hours and hours of time to do three to five blog posts a week the way that I had been doing it in the past.

Lori May  27:02

And I was doing a blog post that night. So my, boundaries that I had put on my home life, were being severely challenged. And to be really honest, Eric just wasn't happy with that. And I would you know, there was just no conversation, you put the kids to bed and I was working again. And there's seasons of your life where that kind of happens. But at that point, that was not, he didn't want that. And neither did I like but it just was the only time because I had no other childcare I had you know, the kids were in preschool. And that's what I that's when I work. And so he expressed that, and I appreciate that. But I wasn't holding true to those boundaries.

Michele  27:47

And you, you made the decision, somewhere in there, to do a blessing release on the blog to say, I'm blessings on what you've brought to me, thank you for what my business is now it was because of that. But that's no longer where I need to pour my energy, it's not the best use of the energy that I have to run and operate my business. And so you know, while the people are still creating bogs, you chose to pull away from that, to kind of let it run its course, and to spend that extra energy and actually building this company that is growing literally on top of you and around you.

Lori May  28:28

Yeah. And it continues to this day, the reevaluation of what we're doing. And, and in giving that blessing, as you want to say, and moving on from that to reevaluate where we are currently. And so it's just a matter of every quite often actually looking through and seeing what we're doing now. What could we be doing better and what has to go away? Now? There's just not enough hours in the day, it's not profitable. It's not, it's just not.

Michele  28:58

I love it when we get to have that conversation.

Lori May  28:59

Yeah. So how was it?

Michele  29:02

Do you remember that next year, when we worked through your financials? And you went from that first year when we met barely profitable to? Oh, my gosh, look at this, right. I didn't really get paid here. And look what's happening. I remember you calling me and going, and that changes the way you feel about your work.

Lori May  29:29

Yeah, it really does. Because I then it changed everything about my life, because then it was a business and I felt that the business was owed my time. Just like my children were owed my time. My husband is owed my time, my family, and because those are the most important things in my life. And before that, the business was a bit of an afterthought. But there was just so much of it, and I loved it, but I didn't give myself permission to give it my time. Like, I should and making money allowed me to feel that self-worth I suppose, to say, okay, this is viable, I can do this, right. And I can make this something that supports my family, which you know, is a big deal for me because that was a big hang up for me and my, I didn't necessarily at that time, need the money, just to be perfectly honest, right. And then came a time later in my life when we needed the money. So thankfully, I did go down that path and decided to make this a real thing. For me what real was to me.

Michele  30:40

And when your family needed your business to be a real business, that's not the time we get to start building it in to be there at that point, and it has given your family opportunity, and your husband to try new things and to do new and to start other companies and you know, to become a full-on entrepreneurial family, and in your business had continued. And that more hobby realm without the boundary, you know, you couldn't have scaled it fast enough to have it ready when you actually needed it. Right? I'm sure you're taking the pricing without emotion course too. And that that course starts to put all the pieces together where you then start realizing, okay, if I want to do this, it's almost like somebody said, it's telling you the questions to ask before, you know to ask them. Okay, so now I know if I want to hire this person, what should I do? And how do I get him? What's the next step here? Or how do I make these three new changes and still make money. And I remember you going through and going, Oh, that's how that works. Okay, here's what I need to do. So that now you manage a, you know, a good bit of your profitability on your own, like, you know, how to make those decisions independently. And that that has been so exciting for me to watch for you is that transfer of knowledge that says you can do this, and you can own it? And let me show you how, and you've taken that on, for sure. So when your business came out of all of that, and it was starting, you were doing mostly furnishings, right.

Lori May  32:16

Right. I was doing decorating projects, primarily. And I was exclusively at that point.

Michele  32:24

And we've had it shift over the tell us a little bit about how it shifted. And because I can remember when you called and said to me, what if I don't ever do furnishings again?

Lori May  32:34

Like, what would that look like?

Michele  32:36

It doesn't mean you weren't but you weren't going to do that? What if I never did decorating furnishings again, instead, I did this. And just thinking through it, how did yours evolve from that to what you're doing today, take us on a little bit of that journey.

Lori May  32:53

So interestingly enough, same said designer, and that we were talking about earlier, we were standing in her living room, and how had a project that that gave me an opportunity, let's say, to take on a project that I wasn't as familiar with, and it was a new construction home. And I had never done anything like that before except for myself, you know, our own house, we had built the house, we renovated our house. And I was given the opportunity to work with these clients from ground up. And fortunately for that project, too, it was all the construction and all the decorating, there's a decorating side of it, that made me feel very comfortable. And then there was a builder who once I met him that I felt very comfortable with. And essentially, I knew from just decorating to doing the entire construction project. So all of the selections from down to Yes, from the ground up from everything from what the trim looks like to the cabinetry and the tiles, all every selection that went into that, that home, it was an incredibly large amount of work. But it turned me on to a facet of our business that I love, and who wouldn't have had no idea. And had I not been kind of pushed in that direction of of her saying, I know you can do this, I need you to do this, do this to me. And that was a huge gift. I've shared that with her and with you before and it turned me on to what I do now, which is 85 to 90% of our projects are heavily construction day. And then in in the decorating side of our business. So we are we are as full service as you could possibly be. And it is something that I just have a huge passion for. I love understanding how we're building something and how it works and why it works that way and how we can make it better. And essentially, we give our clients we take that pressure off, and we create a story for their home instead of a story just for one room. And so we're giving them what we say is you know when you walk in the front door and you walk out backdoors exactly the way you want it to be look and feel for your family. And which comes back to my true love, which is my own family, and these collaborations with these clients, with the builders with the trade, and is really my passion. And I feel like we're helping these people for long term. And they're in these homes a long time. So we really are giving them solutions and stress free as stress free as this can be opportunities. It our solutions, I suppose. And it's the majority of our business now. And it's how we work.

Michele  35:39

isn't that. So? what's the word I'm looking for? it to me, I'll just put it this way, it is absolutely amazing. Because of course, I was there during all the transition and things in your business with going from, you know, do I even want to keep this going too long, let's get let's get our arms around the finances, let's get our arms around the profitability and start building in some work process, you actually are a very process oriented gal. And some of you didn't have some processes, simply because the work came so fast you couldn't get wasn't that you didn't want to create it, it was so much work and so little assistance, that you didn't have the bandwidth to create it. So we created some bandwidth and created those processes, we removed things that were no longer serving you the blog. So we again, we bless the fact that it had brought you to where you were, but it was not going to continue to get you where you wanted to go is actually that's that book I love who's in your room, it was actually holding you back at that point, it had been an engine to push you forward, it was becoming an anchor. So we made peace with letting that go. Then it to see you start. I remember in August, your kids went back to school and we had a conversation, it was the end of the summer, okay, Lori, you're going to continue, you're going to be done and you're like, I'm going to I got enough behind me, I'm going to continue. And then you know, within another year or so, having the opportunity to help a fellow designer out, but then also take on a project that was going to stretch you and grow you, and then to find out you've loved it. I mean, you cut your teeth on it, but darn if you didn't love it. And here's the thing that you have also done and I want to highlight you have created, collaboration is huge to you working with other people is huge for you. And so after working in that home, you have done so many more since then. But you have kind of created these beautiful relationships with your cabinet guy with your architect with a builder or multiple builders, like you've built these really strong, other vendors as well. Right? So that you know, and they know what you do you know what they do you know how you fit together, you can anticipate what the other might do, which keeps the process flowing. And you it's not that you say that's the only ones that I work with. But you do have a different relationship with them, which leads to more profitability because you have less mistakes, less arguing cheaper for the client, because you're not having to go back and charge I really need to deal with somebody that you don't have to deal with or to try to mesh processes together that don't mesh properly. Tell us a little bit about how you have built your business around that collaboration model.

Lori May  38:38

Well, you're right. I mean, it's one of my ultimate goals is collaboration. It's what I love. It's what I didn't get with the blog. So I needed people, I'm an extrovert, to be sure, but there is a certain part of me as I get older, I think that that needs that. And with just the people that I really love, and enjoy. And it's also served me well. So if we have for example, we work with a lot of different builders, and but we have a handful we work with repetitively, because first of all, they subscribe to the same sort of ideas and the same working environment and I am process driven and I need them to be that way too. And I can't just be all over the place or you know, our clients suffer. And so building those relationships are vitally important. And client relationships, of course, have always come first. But what it comes soon after that is build a relationship. Because builders bring us work. We bring builders work, it's very it's reciprocal, it's collaborative. It's a really great way to work. And what we would find is okay, now we're missing a good cabinetmaker, or we need this. So what I've worked on in the past two years, I would say is making sure we have all those holes filled So that I can say, so we're the, we're the, if someone needs something, they're going to call us, they may not even be a client, or they may be a former client. But we're very trusted and very collaborative on what we bring to the table, and filling those holes, as far as making sure we had the best cabinet maker. And let's be clear more than one, man, because you can't just have one, there's too much business backlog. Right. And not every cabinet maker is for every client, we have custom cabinet makers, and we have ready made cabinet manufacturers. So we have to make sure that we have, you know, the person to fit each need. And as we've done that, and everyone's worked on a similar process, it's just made our business so much more seamless, and not so much more appealing to the end user clients. So it feels and it is very fluid. And it's not an easy process. And we always talk to people about you know, it's stressful, but we take a good deal of that stress out because of the processes that we work on. And because we built these collaborations with these people that we trust. And we work with the same people, even from our clients, to our vendors, over and over and over again. And then the new clients that we receive, whether they be builders, vendors, or end user clients know each other. And you and I did that circle, I don't know what that circle is that thing where you have the little circles and you don't step outside your circle, sorry, little tangent, that that I think of that often, that little exercise we did, once and in our circles have a very tight and that it vets, our clients and our builders, all of the people we were involved with very, very well. And it helps us to build a better, stronger business. And we do better work. And because of those people we've found, and we work with over and over again.

Michele  41:58

And you do you very much focus on relationship building with the client. And because you have repeat clients, like you said, vendors and everything. How have you found? Or can you get I don't even know if you can quantify it. But I'll ask the question. What How has your profitability in your company increased by kind of creating that more small circle of vendors like really building those firm relationships really collaborating. It's not that you're not letting others in the circle. But I know we did a lot of value alignment, we worked on a lot of you standing in your space, owning the values that you have for you and your company. So you, you now have a team of people working with you, your employees had to align with the vision of loyal mentors, they had to align with the values and the why kind of behind what you do. I remember one time I don't even know if you remember this. I remember you having a client who had some type of memorabilia or collectible things, and they kind of had it scattered all over the room. And I think they maybe had spoken to another designer and they were wanting to take everything out of the room and came in and talk to them. And you recognized that there was something there that meant everything to them. And what you said was, let me pull these things together into a collection so that you can still have them in the room. I think you put them in some type of like a shadow box or you put them in so you remember that client?

Lori May  43:34

Yeah.

Michele  43:35

And I remember that client, I think you told me they were almost in tears when they walked in the room. They loved all the design you did. But the fact that you incorporated something that was so close to them and to their family. And I'll never forget that you did that. Because so many designers think that it's about their vision and that client's home and not allowing that client to be in that room write a piece or part of them. Maybe it's something they don't like, but my aunt loves it and you found you find ways to incorporate that. But you do the same thing. When you work with other people. You are understanding what makes them tick. You're understanding what they need in the process, and what do I need in the process? And how do you think just the mindset that you have for all of that? How do you think that has impacted your profitability?

Lori May  44:28

Well, I think there's an incredibly trust factor that we have with all the people that we work with. And we are we are and I tell my team that we are incredibly gracious to everyone we work with. And some days it's tough. Because it can get difficult a lot of there's a lot of money at stake. There's generally a lot of emotion at stake and many, many of our clients don't realize that until you kind of get into the heart of it. So I often say that it's Funny how much my psychology minor comes into play with my clients, because the partners in this relationship then become somewhat my responsibility and working through their quirk. So in what they want for their home, and so making sure we pay attention to things that are vitally important to them, even if they haven't, oftentimes, a client will say, Well, I know I need to get rid of that. I know my daughter said, I don't need that anymore. It's not in style. That is so painful for me. Because I know, but based on them saying that they love it.

Michele  45:37

There's an emotional connection for them to that.

Lori May  45:39

Absolutely. So it almost becomes my mission at that point to make sure whatever that thing is, whether it's memorabilia, whether it's, you know, chair, I don't know, get this day, and somewhere in that home, and or, you know, the classic thing of, do you want your cabinets painted or stained? You know, what do you want? You know, why do you want it, and it we get very involved, and with our clients, and some might think that would make more time and less profitability. But in reality, when we have really focused and dive down that deep, we tend to be more profitable, it saves us time. In the end, we spend a lot of time on the front end, but then they trust us so much at that point, particularly when we move on to project two, which is almost always another project. They trust us so much at that point that there's very little of Oh, yeah, I love that. Let's move on. And I think that for the benefit is I think a lot of people miss that, that relationship building side of it. And it's also we work with their daughter, we work with their business partner, we so the trust factor that we get with one client is automatically put on to those other people, and to those other future clients. And it works the same way with our trades or builders, our vendors, you know, people that we treat really well refer us from a place in their heart, not just that they do a good job, they do a good job, and we trust them to do what they say they're going to do. That's immensely important to me.

Michele  47:20

Yeah, I'd love that. I call it a transfer of trust, they are changing the trust. And, you know, that's exactly what happened. When we had the luncheon when I met you, the designer brought me in and said, I want to transfer the trust that I have in her, I want you all to trust her. You know, and I worked with many of the designers that that were there that day is that same transfer, it's like this is real. And like my heart says, I love you all enough. I care about your enough that I want you to have this experience or to move your business forward or whatever. And it's the same for you. Let me ask you this, you, you now run a very profitable business, you're able to I mean, let's just be honest, you make what you want to make you tell me what you want to make, and we make a plan and you make it and you're always growing and changing and adding more. So it's not like you're ever stuck and you're never stagnant. What are some of the big plans you have for your business moving forward? Because I just love Lori, I know we talked about it, but you're not afraid to let your business organically morph into a slightly different look or plan or direction. You even mentioned before we came on air, it's not that you don't plan you plan, you just don't over plan and override the plan so that it can grow. Do you have ideas of here's what I think we're going to do next? What would that maybe look like for you?

Lori May  48:55

I think and this is such a good problem to have. I think at this point in my life, I'm trying to decide how big do I want it to be? And and that's a real thing. It's a it's a blessing for sure to be at this point. And but that is a big question for me. How many people do I want to hire? And how big do I want this company to be? Because there's no doubt it can be as big as I would like for it to be? Is that what I want? And what do we lose? Because you can't grow like that and not lose something. And so I'm trying to be measured about that while at the same time. Almost having to turn away business because we can't we just can't take as much as we are given at this point or have the opportunity for and there's pros and cons to that. Obviously because as a as the person that I've described myself to be, I want to help pretty much anybody who comes to my door for the most part and because that's I do feel like I have a gift to give to those people. And, and I want to be able to do it. But at the fastest, what am I sacrificing? Right? For that career?

Michele  50:13

It's a trade off. It really is. And you are approaching a half empty nest. Yeah, right. Yeah. And I am. And that creates a shift in family dynamics. And then in a few short years, you know, you'll send your youngest off to college, which is so interesting when we were like back in the preschool days, but you'll be sending your youngest off to college. And that creates time again, I know people who say to me now, Michele, I can't believe you do all the things you do and do as much as you do. And I'm like, but it hasn't always been that way. There were door where the business, you know, was growing. And for those that have ever listened to my podcasts with my husband, or my son, there were also times where I scaled it back when we had family issues or things that were happening. And then both boys left for college. And I, you remember this, because we were together, I literally I did my master bathroom right after you did your master bedroom. And I, I seriously had the guy, we came home on a Sunday from dropping my youngest off at college. And I had the whole bathroom ripped out the next morning, like I was like, be at my house at 8am. I need you to keep me busy for the next three weeks. And yeah, it filled my heart and my life so that I didn't over focus on that. So it kind of honestly having like, you know, workers in your house and ripping out your bathroom, there's nothing like that to get your mind off the fact that there are no kids in your house anymore. Sure. But then, you know, 2, 3, 4 weeks later, when it was all said and done, I was kind of through that rough part. And I was able to pour even more into my business. And now I'm even finding with both boys grown out of college, you know, having their own life and moving on, I'm actually having to put boundaries back around the business, because it could keep going. And you know, my husband is now working from home because of COVID. I think that's going to be the new hashtag for everybody because of COVID. But yeah, hashtag because of COVID. He's working from home, if we don't put boundaries, he could stay in his office, and I could stay in my office. And there's not that same demand to get up and go buy your stuff, because we don't necessarily have the access that we had before. So we've had to institute boundaries, just to pull back. Right. And I think that's kind of that ebb and flow of business is yours could grow. But you know, conversation is now the time.

Lori May  52:44

Right?

Michele  52:45

My youngest asked me years ago, Mom, how do you know when big enough is big enough? Like how do you know when is enough? And there's not one answer. It's what's enough for you and the stage that you're in? Do you see your business shifting in 5-10 years? Or do you think that you're going to get to a place where you have a consistent business model, and you want to kind of hold that for a while.

Lori May  53:16

And I cannot imagine it being kind of stagnant in the same, I guess it's always been in, in somewhat of a growth. Sure, in growth for me doesn't have to mean more dollars more clients. And right now I'm focusing on what we have one, we have a new team and member so and COVID has caused us some people want some homes, some people work in the office, it's just kind of all over the place. Sure, we're working through that that's a real thing. And how do we change our processes a little bit to make that work better, because that is for the time, you know, we don't know when that's going to be over. And there are, you know, things I consider about expanding my working area, you know, I would love projects in different areas. So if we, we do have some projects in Florida, for example, because we, I mean, obviously, being in Atlanta, a lot of people don't work. And so in the beach areas and things like that, we've been very fortunate to work in those areas. And I do think to myself, and that would be a, you know, a nice place for me to do more work and perhaps fun based there part of the time and in Atlanta part of the time, you know, those are, those are conversations I have in my head. And that's a real possibility for us, because we have the resources in place in that in that area already. And I also think about expanding our business to different types of builders. And you and I have had this conversation before. And one of the things we haven't talked about it here most of the conversation we've had here is more about our custom work. But we also have a part of our business where we do specifications for builders on spec homes. And so we have one designer, project manager in our office and that's what she'd up. She has one builder, and she works with him, his project manager exclusively on all their specifications, that's a part of our business, we can easily grow. And we've really kind of kept it at bay. Because this honestly, as much as we've been able to do, and from a physical standpoint, how much can you do? So there? It's kind of there's the different areas out of our business. And then what can we do right where we are currently. Right. And those are two very distinctive things that we talked about. Both of those things require me to probably hire more people. And then that's where I come back within myself and say, is that what I want? Yeah. Because I really like what we do. I don't see it remaining the same. But I do see it. It just gets better. It's, it's more refined. Yeah, I suppose as we go through. But yeah, those are two distinct opportunities that we have placed in front of us that we can do more with. It's my choice. And that's what a great thing, what a great thing.

Michele  56:03

And what's so cool, Lori, is it's all been your choice.

Lori May  56:07

Mm hmm. That's true.

Michele  56:09

Whether we, whether we recognize it and own it and call it that every It was your choice to do the blog, it was your choice to say yes to HGTV, it was your choice to trust me in that family room and say I'm struggling, it was your choice to work on your business, your choice to change from hobby to business, all of these things have been your decisions. And you are in a beautiful spot that says now I also get to choose if I get to choose to get here, I get to get there. And you and I've talked about this, like you just talked about and said about scaling. I don't think there's one way to scale when people in our industry tell other people well, the only way to scale is to have this huge firm, that's just not true. Scale means grow scale means to make more and to do more of some of the same things. And so sometimes there's a scaling depth, and sometimes there's a scaling width. Sometimes scaling is just getting your processes so dialed in that you can do more of the same work in the same amount of time or less time with less people. I mean, it doesn't sometimes you can scale by pulling technology in instead of people I'm firm believer that we get as much understanding and technology in the support systems of what we do so that we don't have to have as many people. Right, and that the people we have a more highly skilled to do what they do. And so I love that you that you brought that up that there's not just one way to think about how we're going to grow your business or anybody else's.

Lori May  57:40

Right, right. And we talk within our team about I do allow myself and this is a reasonably new things for me, and with age, and to be a lot more vulnerable with my team members. And with my, with my clients to a certain extent to and vulnerability is not something I have always embraced. And but it has made giving a little bit of that myself to that is also growth. Oh, so it's not for me. And growth to some might only be dollars and cents. For me growth in this business is trusting my team to do work that you do that I only used to do. And that's a huge amount of vulnerability for me. And because no one can do it better than I can do. It was always pretty much seen. And so that's also grow. And I think if and also younger designers just because I'm 50 and I can say that now. But if you can embrace vulnerability within your business, it just pays you in spades like it's just so beneficial moving forward and allows you to have the freedom, even though it's scary to make some pretty good decision, I think.

Michele  59:06

I agree. I agree. And it it does more of what you like, builds, team builds collaboration builds relationship, because people when, when you're vulnerable in the right way, right in an appropriate way. You know, you're not telling everything to everybody that you are not right. But when we are vulnerable and they're in the best way. People respond to that they connect. That's what forms connection. And people then want to work with you. They want to help you they want to guide you, they want to tell people about you because there is that strong connection. So I think that that's good. I'm like you now that we're in our 50s we can look back and see things. I wasn't always very vulnerable with things either. And you know, it's taken a lot for me over the years to realize that when I'm teaching people courses like that, you know, my Understanding your financials or mass, your profit or even profit first. And, you know, the price without emotion, I'm telling them is because I got it wrong.

Lori May  1:00:10

Right?

Michele  1:00:10

There's the vulnerability. It's not like I'm coming at you going, Oh, look, I did this and this and look how awesome I am the first time this was like, I had this information, I didn't implement it because I didn't understand it at my own level. And I screwed it up, and I paid some pretty high prices to get it wrong. And then I decided I'm not doing that anymore. I'm going to get that right. And so then by getting it right, it's like, I don't want to hold that lesson all to myself lately. And I think the thing that people say to me all the time is, Oh, my gosh, where have you been? Why did I not know that helped me, please help me. And I think that's the same thing that you see in your design, you have a gift to give you and your team. And when you give it to that family, they can't help but tell somebody else. Look what Lori and her team did for me, you've got to go work with Lori, you've got to check it out. And just creating the vulnerability, even just like you said, in processes and delegation, and sharing what you got right and what you got wrong. Even like if a client were to ask you to do something that you knew was wrong. It's able to go, you know what, I used to think that too, and I tried it one time, and it does not work. Here's what I do know, works vulnerability and saying, I've done that way. I've done what you're asking. It's not a good idea. It's not going to work, because I've tried it. And here's where we can go. It really does build great relationship.

Lori May  1:01:33

It does. It does. And it builds trust. I mean, it truly does build trust, because you can't go in. I used to think you had to go in and you had to know all the answers. I think you and I have had a lot of work on this. And I'm also a personality where people think that I have all the answers. But he's very frustrated, very confident. Yes, I am. I am and I am. But I, but being able to be comfortable having a bit of vulnerability and a bit of No, I don't know everything. What do you think gives people a gift, as well, my team, particularly, to be able to challenge what I say, because people weren't super comfortable challenging what I said, and that was my business. Yeah, yes, absolutely. Yeah, in just a normal conversation, you know, just to I didn't realize that was the thing, like I didn't know, but they were just a little hesitant to, to do that. They weren't afraid of me that they just thought I knew everything. And clients will somewhat do this too. And even our trade, where I'll have to say, I don't know everything. I don't know what the best way is to do this situation. I know, this is what worked with us six times before. So I have a good inkling. But what do you think, bring me your ideas. And that that changes your business, not having to know it all is a huge relief, and takes a lot of pressure off. in all aspects of family to be honest.

Michele  1:03:05

I remember when kids first realized Mom, you don't know everything. I'm like, Oh, yeah, I'm thinking, What in the world did I ever do that made you think I knew everything? Because the more I know, the more I do not know, like I underwrite the bigger picture of what I don't know, I know about this much, which is a tiny little bit in comparison to everything out there.

Michele  1:03:24

It just happened I'm sure you're asking me about.

Lori May  1:03:27

Right. Right. Right.

Michele  1:03:29

Lori, were you hanging out online these days? Where can people find you?

Lori May  1:03:33

And we definitely are on Instagram, and we have a Facebook presence. And I make fun I have a Twitter account. But that's because I have teenagers. And they get some of their information from there. But those are my primary outlets. Instagram is really is a primary outlet for us. Okay, and it just we've talked about this before I'm and maybe this is the wrong thing to say on a podcast. I'm not a huge social media person. And but I love a good podcast for me personally. And that's my go to as far as clearing out my head and my my podcast library is very diverse. But for us from a business standpoint, it's making sure that we do have a presence in some way on Facebook and Instagram, because that's where the majority of our clients are. And that's how we kind of approach it.

Michele  1:04:31

Awesome. Yeah, well, I'll have a list of your Facebook, your Instagram and your website and show notes so everybody can find you there. And I just really thank you for sharing your journey and kind of your metamorphosis. It's been it has been such a pleasure to be with you on that journey but then to just watch you grow and come into your own and see new design muscles get strengthened all the time, and financial profitability muscles I love those when they think, yeah, thank you for letting me be part of it.

Lori May  1:05:04

Thank you, I would not be where I am. Had I not met you that day in Lindsay's living room. And that's a true statement. And you know that, and we're not going to cry. But it's true. Like, I think that letting people in to help you or you need help is a vital importance. And you have been there doing that for me for almost 10 years. You know, I mean, for a long time.

Michele  1:05:30

It's been a long time. And I love it. I love it. Thank you so much. And I hope you have just a wonderful day. And I know everybody's going to enjoy listening to your podcast, because no matter where they're stepping in even just giving yourself the freedom to let the business grow, and to say no to what is no longer serving you and yes to what you might find, and taking risk calculated. But saying yes, even when you're afraid sometimes and not letting that fear of failure or not letting these things pass you by. I just think that is really great reminders of our time that we've just shared for all of us, no matter where we are in in our journey of business. So thank you.

Lori May  1:06:13

Thank you.

Michele  1:06:16

Thank you, Lori, for being on the podcast. I love going back and remembering how it all started, how far you've come and what you can attribute it to. Collaboration is key for Lori and that allows her not to have to do everything alone. I would love to collaborate with you in your business like you do in the client space. Let's work together to build a business that works for you and not against you. You can sign up for a discovery call at ScarletThreadConsulting.com. Let's make profit of choice because profit doesn't happen by accident.