141: 5 Ways to Attract & Keep Good Interior Design Employees
Michele 00:00
Hello, my name is Michele and you're listening to profit is the choice. With me today is Jessica Harling of behind the design. Jessica loves to work with organizations to create training and operational systems to inspire their employees streamline cost and develop a rockstar culture. And on the podcast today, we're going to tackle the topic of client retention. What are the five big tips to creating an environment where our employees want to hang around and work for the success of all, I hope you enjoy the podcast and learn a lot from what Jessica brings.
Michele 00:41
Every day empowered entrepreneurs are taking ownership of their company financial health, and enjoying the rewards of reduced stress and more creativity. With my background as a financial software developer, owner of multiple businesses in the interior design, industry, educator and speaker, I coach women in the interior design industry to increase their profits, regain ownership of their bottom line and to have fun again in their business. Welcome to Profit is a Choice.
Michele 01:11
Hey, Jessica, welcome to the podcast.
Jessica Harling 01:13
Thanks so much, Michele. I'm excited.
Michele 01:15
I'm excited to have you here as well. You and I met a couple of years ago at a conference where we were both participating in a multitude of ways. And I remember saying to you at that point, I don't know if you remember it, we had done one of the kind of the roundtable things and I said, you said you're super smart. I said, you have a lot going for you. I don't know if you remember that or not?
Jessica Harling 01:40
I do, it meant a lot to me, and it still does.
Michele 01:45
Because at the time, I think you were an attendee at the event. And I was one of the speakers at the event. And I was like, okay, girl, you got some going on here. And then you and I have touched base quite a few times over the last couple of years staying in touch and just brainstorming, you know, and I was so delighted when you reached out and said, Hey, can I talk to you on the podcast? I say, Yeah, you can. I can't believe I didn't think in advance to ask you. So I'm glad that you asked me because we we share a lot of the same ideas and ideals about business. And so I would love to have you start, Jessica by sharing with the listeners. How you started because you've been in the window coverings design world probably since the time that you were born? Probably not, if not before, but um, share just a little bit about your journey and business that has brought you to where you are today.
Jessica Harling 02:42
Sure. I worked for a family business for quite a long time and had the great fortune of leading teams there. And what really brought me to this point is at conference after conference, and you know, attending what I needed to build my leadership skills, there always was this constant question of how do you find your employees? And how do you keep them. And in this, you know, small family business and the design world, it often felt like, there weren't as many tools or resources as maybe big corporations had. And after searching, you know, there really wasn't something for the designer or the small family business, in coaching in terms of the employee retention. So I just started practicing what my theories were and sort of putting it together. And because of the volume that I was working with, I got a lot of practice. And all of a sudden that these conferences, I started to be the one to speak on recruiting and training. And people were asking me to come to their, their companies and just observe them for a week and give them some advice on you know, how to really engage their team. So that kind of spawned me doing it full time. And really giving back what I've learned and what I've done myself.
Michele 04:14
What do you think it was? So let me ask you this when you were in your first family owned business and you were working there, did you immediately gravitate to that HR employee kind of management role? Not management, necessarily, but the managing up right? Did you kind of gravitate towards that? Like, how did you get involved on the employee side?
Jessica Harling 04:37
Sure. I actually remember my first day, I had a very interesting trainer and she said I couldn't touch anything. I was just there to sit and greet customers. And I thought it was so shocking because I was a showroom manager and the manager and the title thought to me thought, you know, I should be managing something,
Michele 05:03
right?
Jessica Harling 05:04
You know, I couldn't even touch my files, I couldn't touch my desktop. I mean, it was literally just sit there, Jessica and greet people as they walk in.
Michele 05:12
Okay, that I kind of stopped right there. At that point, I would have been like Peace out, sister. You're not going to just sit here. I mean, you're beautiful. But we don't want to just sit and be pretty face and tell somebody Hello, give me something to do.
Jessica Harling 05:26
Right, exactly. And it really was the need of it. When, you know, people started asking me questions, customers, and vendors would come in and do some training. And they, you know, ask me for some tools or brochures and resources, like I literally just started to have to figure it out. And you know, I remember the first week my biggest accomplishment that week was reorganizing the file cabinet, because they didn't believe in alphabetizing, the file cabinet. So I found myself searching for hours for these tools that I needed, and wasting company time and wasting the money that they're paying me. And it just clicked. I said, You know, I am way too smart for this. I came from a teaching and a directing background. So I naturally was a leader and wanted to make a difference.
Michele 06:21
I tell my husband all the time, and I heard it. I mean, not that he needs to hear it. We're just it's a general conversation, right? We were even having it again today. And I said, You know, I heard it on some business podcast radio show something probably I don't know, four or five years ago. And the comment has stuck with me and never left. And it is this it says people leave bad managers, they don't leave bad companies, we can put up with a lot from a company, but you don't put up with as much from your manager. And so that one person who is in front of you can make a huge difference. You know, because you will usually stay in fight to make the company better. If the leadership above you is helping you fight the same direction, right, if you're working together. And so I think that's really interesting. Question. So you're, I'm going to say, trainer at that job that wanted you to sit and greet people? Was it because he or she didn't have an onboarding plan? Or do you think it was because they were fearful? Or did they not know what to do? What do you think their big challenge was? to getting you in the right position to actually work to make a difference in the company? Or was it just terrible? not terrible? That's probably not a great word. Was it maybe a stagnant company culture?
Jessica Harling 07:47
So that's a great question. And in the reflection of it, I think it has to do with two things. First, there wasn't a training plan. Often I heard, we're not good trainers. But that just translated to me that there was no training plan. Right, right. But there was another level to it. The the person that was that initial contact for me, ended up giving their two weeks notice that first week that I was there, so I think they were in a frustrated space. And it really, it goes to show that you have to be really particular about the managers that are your leaders and the ones that are training for you so that you don't give a bad impression in the first week. Because if I wasn't family, I would be looking at the situation and just walking away like, Okay, well, it looks like you don't want me to do anything here. So it really it's a little bit of both management and training.
Michele 08:45
Well, and I say that too, because you know, if we want to retain an employee, one of the first ways to retain them is to put them in the right position and onboard them. Well, if we don't on board, you don't even have a chance to keep them past the 30 days. I mean, because there are some that if they had not had the familial tie that you had, they would have walked out. They had been told that and so I am a fan of the idea that training actually begins in the interview process. I know that sounds a little odd. I don't know if you've ever thought about it that way. But I think training begins in the interview process. We're training people, if you will, on what we do and how we do it. We're showing them what we have in place. We're showing them our organization, we're showing them I mean, to be able to tell somebody in an interview, like I just hired somebody a few months ago. And one of the things during the interview process was here's what I would expect in 30 days, 60 days in 90 days. Do you think that that you can accomplish that? Or, you know, does that seem reasonable? That was training before we ever signed together? You know, and so I do believe that training starts super early and our problem is That I think we have a lot of small companies that are tired, and they're overwhelmed, and they're busy. And they are discouraged, and they're frustrated, or they are happy and excited, and they just have so much on their plate, that, and I've been there too, right I've hired before when I wasn't, I was ready because of the work. But I wasn't ready mentally, and with my own time to give the employee or the team member that what they needed to be successful, from the very beginning. And so it kind of sets you up for training to be in this when, when it's not set up with a really good process. I mean, from the outset and best before you ever go get the person, right.
Jessica Harling 10:41
Absolutely. And I totally agree that it starts from the beginning, because you're showing them the core values of the company, how you operate how you think. And I often think about a new hire like a baby that in the beginning stages, you're always going to be looking at that baby and making sure that they are learning and growing. And yes, you don't want to hover over them. But you definitely don't want to make sure that they roll off the couch. So it is so important that you watch what you say in the interview question or interview process and the training process. Because I've seen a lot of managers where, you know, they joke about quitting on the first day, you may have a new hire and their managers like Oh, it's so stressful, good thing, I'm not quitting today. And it's like, wait a minute, this is this is the impression that you're giving them and that even comes out in the interview process sometimes. So it's critical that you're watching the way that you say things and you keep it in a positive tone, because we want to teach them from the beginning, how to think with action and positivity and not just getting a slump.
Michele 11:49
I so agree with that. My interview skills, and I've been doing this for over 30 years, I had to do it all when I was in software and ran teams. So you know, it takes a while to really kind of hone your skill at interviewing and asking the right questions, and not having a knee jerk reaction. And that's the same thing that we need when we're now managing the team. So now we've hired and we've on boarded someone. And let's hope that we have a robust training plan as far as just onboarding them, right. So what are we doing to make sure that we're onboarding them? Well, so we've given them the idea of what we're expecting in the first 90 days. And now are we actually managing towards that, hopefully, we are with an idea of training them so that they want to stay. And again, if we go back to it, there are tools that we use, as we would say, in our toolbox, are those things that we don't say, kind of like what you were mentioning, Jessica, the tone, the jokes, the way that we interact, and the way that we feel excited about our own work, right, the way that we see and respect the other members of our team. All of that plays a role in how things are done. And if we for a minute, think that employee a doesn't watch how employee B interacts with the leadership and other management in the company we are we're kidding ourselves, because people are always watching. And how did the manager respond to that? Did they respond to that? Should they have responded to that? And so having management and leadership that that doesn't help foster the environment that you wish to continue with is a problem. I told my client yesterday I said she was bringing on a new employee, I said, begin the way you want to continue. And she said, what I said, I want you to start the relationship the way you want to continue the relationship. You can't start at one way and then change it and want it to be another. So you begin the way you want to continue. And she's like, okay, that's a good idea. And I need to go back and look at where am I maybe setting a precedent and training or setting your precedent and onboarding, that is not going to be what I need later for employee retention, right? Because they're going to expect that we're going to stay that way. And I'm going to be like, Yo, I say this to you use the baby, I use the teenager, if I'm going to be putting rules and place they better hold. So I can't start off really lacks and then tighten up, you got to start tight and then loosen up, right, though, I think that's just important kind of as an overall umbrella for the conversation that we're going to have about just overall employee retention, because we're going to kind of talk about it more, I think from a standpoint of now that they're on board, they're on the team and let's move them forward. I just don't want us to miss and discount. It takes a lot of work prior to what we're going to talk about to even get them there and we don't want to miss that part of the process.
Jessica Harling 14:51
Absolutely. You have to establish you know what you need, what you want and how they're going to interact in your environment. And like you said carving out the space, so that when you do bring them on, you have a plan and you have the time to actually spend with them.
Michele 15:08
Just one tidbit that I'll offer before we jump into this conversation, I always have my coaching clients as much as possible save three months of the salary that they're wishing to hire for before they hire. Simply because those first three months, nobody is in most cases, 100%, billable or 100%, paying their own way. And by having their three months’ salary, it makes up for the fact that they're not able to work at the highest capacity possible. And it also makes up for the extra time that somebody is having to step away from their office or desk to be able to train them. And so just having that three months there gives the cushion, that you're not so worried about expenses and billable and payroll, and all of that. So throw that into the mix, create an environment for success. And that includes the financial side of it.
Jessica Harling 16:01
Absolutely.
Michele 16:02
So Jessica, talk to me a minute about and to all of us about the key elements of employee retention, what would those be?
Jessica Harling 16:09
so I really look at it in a five step system. So first off is we talked about training, but training and making sure that that is an effective process. Second is the tools that the employee needs to perform their job, to the high standards that the owner or the manager expects. Third is to review and kind of recap with your employee along the way to make sure that they are staying on top of their goals, then it's rewarding them for achieving certain milestones, and last building trust with that employee. So all five of those things are critical in building that long term relationship with your employee.
Michele 16:58
Okay, so let's take those one by one and dig into each a little bit. All right, so your first tip had to do with training? Give us your definition of training, because, you know, I think sometimes we use these terms. And training can mean a lot of things to a lot of people it really can. And so if you were to take a step back and explain what training is, and how you're using it in this particular tip, how would you go about that?
Jessica Harling 17:27
Sure. So really to simplify here, we need to teach them how to do their job effectively. And so by breaking apart what their job is, you know, we may not need all of the terminology for a particular position, or they may not need all the tools that the company has. But if they need computer training in order to schedule customers, or they need terminology for the design and the products that you're selling, those be key elements that they can learn about in the first 30 days. So really is looking at the job of the employee, and figuring out what are the four or five things that they need to know that after 30 days, you can kind of let them go free and really feel comfortable in their job.
Michele 18:20
So I think that there are two different types of job descriptions. And I would love to get your thoughts and feedback on this. One, I think there is a job description that we use for hiring that we put out into the public that is kind of the the honey, if you will that kind of draws a man right? Then I think we have the more detailed internal job description that is on with the milestones with expectations with all these things that we are expecting, what you do, who you report to how it gets done, that also ties in then with whatever operating procedures and performance manuals that you need to do what you do. And I think that maybe in businesses that have not worked with full on employees, you know, they they look at that external job description as all that they really need. And it's really not enough is that that is a skimming of the surface. And we also take that external, I call it an external job description. Often we tweak it based on who we hire, and their individualized skill set that they bring to our environment. So, you know, I've seen jobs that kind of get tweaked and they look quite different than what we hired for. And what we need to do internally to then make the job work is a little different than what we maybe put on paper to begin with. I'm certain that you probably see the same thing.
Jessica Harling 19:46
Absolutely. I mean from the job description that goes out on the ad really we're writing language that is attracting a type of person so it's more branding and marketing than anything. I raise your interest job description, I call it the welcome letter because some states have at will employment, which means you can let go of an employee at any time. So for those states, we can't set contracts with them, but it's doing the same sort of thing. So I call it the welcome letter that introduces them to the goals, the expectations, even from the salary, how they're getting paid, what the vacation policies like. So kind of all encompassing, as a guide for moving forward in the company, right. And so it's important for us to think about all of these pieces and parts and elements. Now, if anybody's listening for the first time, and they're just starting to hire, the last thing I want this to do is create overwhelm.
Michele 20:41
But what it can do is help you start thinking about bringing in an employee is more than just kind of getting your to do list off of your plate and onto somebody else's. I mean, it really does take some planning in advance for bringing them on and then planning to keep them there, and to create relationship with them. Because none of the tips that you suggested we can we do without building a relationship and spending time. And I think that is something that we underestimate a lot is how much time it takes to manage people.
Jessica Harling 21:12
Mm hmm. Absolutely. And I look for you know, efficiencies that might be repetitive or you know, if I'm going to plan on bringing in people in the future, I have a new hire checklist. So I don't want to rely on my memory to make sure that I'm crossing all my you know, T's dotting all my eyes, where I can just go to my checklist and say, Okay, do I have my tax documents? Do I have all their computers set up? Do I have their logins and passwords and just create that reminder list for myself, so it is a lot less time and running around in preparation for them coming,
Michele 21:49
I know I have the exact same thing, a whole list of how to onboard them everything they're going to need when they're going to need it what comes first and what comes second doesn't mean no good to give them a login if I don't give them a computer. So that again, kind of keep it in order there. Okay, so what else should we do in our training to make it effective, so that we can empower our employees because we don't want them to just do the work and it not matter, we want to actually empower them to have decision making in that work?
Jessica Harling 22:19
Absolutely. So one of the things that I think is most powerful is a role playing example. And whether that is your first introducing them to the concept of a customer conversation and what the expectations is, we want to create an environment where they can hear it from you first and give them an example of how you would conduct that conversation. And then give them a chance to try it without doing it on their own. So it's a very simple teaching process of see one do one, teach one. So we need to see what's being done. So you as the manager, you can show them the way we need to do one, so the employee has to try it out. And then on the third kind of recap is having them give that information back to you as if they were teaching you so that it gets ingrained into their system. And doing this repetitively and giving them the chances of real examples, but still have a safe environment gives them a comfort level that they can feel empowered to do it on their own.
Michele 23:29
I love that, you know, we do a lot of the same kind of things over here. I'll say, for example, even if it's just an email that I want to send out, here's a template add in these things. And they'll send it to me, Michele, review this, see if see if this is exactly what you're looking for. And then they can turn around, believe it or not, they can even update and write the SNPs that go with it, I don't even have to jump back in to do those things, right, because they so understand the work that they are involved in that they can take an ownership of it. And I think that's one of the things about the being able to teach it back is that you now have ownership, you can't teach something you don't know. It's just not possible. And so I think that is a really great idea. You know, the other thing that we have used a lot in training and my clients have as well. Jessica and I'm sure you have too, is technology not to underestimate the use of technology and so we use zoom and we do a lot of recordings we use loom and the more we record we actually create online manuals so that our you know when you when you're showing it to them, we can absorb everything the first time somebody shows us something especially not if it's a complex you know set of instructions and so having something recorded that you can go back and watch over and over and over so that you then can actually own it and teach it is huge. And video I mean we use our iPad we video things we just you know, we learn the five senses, believe it or not, and at least four of them all, but maybe taste. And then if you were in culinary arts, you might use that one too. But you know, we have the ability to use them all. And so that, that even that kinesthetic they doing the hearing the seeing it just, it stays in our brain in a different way than somebody just either handing you a written standard operating procedure, or telling you auditorily, and you don't see it or write it. So having the way to train that is all encompassing of all of the senses, kind of meets people wherever they are.
Jessica Harling 25:34
Absolutely. I mean, I always say that recap and repeat builds retention. And by doing some sort of recordings, like I personally, when I bring a new team member on, I'll train them through zoom. So it's face to face, you know, I can go with their timing and their the pace, but then I'm recording it so that if there's any questions, they can go back and take the initiative and review the video. And if I said something I don't remember, I can also go back and review that video. So it really is a tool that for most owners, when you feel like you're saying, you know, I've told them this 1000 times, well, if you record it, you'll know how many times and you can always go back to that,
Michele 26:17
Well, that kind of moves us into the your second tip, which was all about the tools, what are some other tools that, you know, we could use as either a new employee or that we could offer to our employees to make them productive.
Jessica Harling 26:29
So one of the things that I find out early in the first 30 days with an employee is they just don't know where to go and who to contact. And if you just have a simple resource list or a contact list, it could include your vendors, your employees, you know who your vendor reps are their contact information, it really helps them again, being empowered to make their own decisions and reach out on their own because they just need the answers. And often employees feel like they're bothering their owner, if they're asking these smaller detailed questions. So giving them some templates that they you know, and encouraging them to reach out that they don't just have to talk to the manager that, you know, there's a lot of people that can support them, and just giving them the direction of who to go to and for what it will really help them in their communication.
Michele 27:26
That's awesome. Are there any other tools outside of that that you can think of.
Jessica Harling 27:30
So from a practical standpoint, I always really like having a CRM, because that really helps the employee go back to help manage that customer that it doesn't necessarily have to rely on their memory, especially if they're working on high volume, but to go to a CRM and and note what every action they took was, and they can go back and make reference to that so that they're not spending unnecessary time thinking about it or trying to retrieve where their last steps were.
Michele 28:05
Okay. So, you know, I guess and tools we also need to think about, and I think this is important, is when we have that employee, especially one that is new, if we are needing them to use software, we need to make sure that our licenses are set up in a way that it can accommodate another person, we if we are the ones providing them technology, we need to make sure they have a computer, we need to make sure you know, are we covering their cell phone, all of those small things that that we need to have in advance. You know, the last thing again, that we want is to bring an employee on and we don't have the hardware, just in either phone, access laptop, desk, whatever, to make them successful, because then they don't feel like you're ready for them. Here's the way I explain it to my clients. When you're hiring an employee, it is like you are having this fantastic dinner party. And nobody wants to show up and not have their name card at the table. And so if you don't have a plate for them, and you don't have food for them, and you don't you're not ready to receive them, your house is a mess, the bathrooms dirty, and you're telling them to come on in and make themselves at home and they don't even know where to sit and what to do. You got a problem, you have a problem. So if you can just think about your business is their home and you're inviting them in to spend hours with you. What do you need to do to make it comfortable? What do you need to do to make them feel like they're at home? What do you need to do to make it a good experience where they're going to want to come back and where they can feel like hey, let me help you create this dinner party. Right? put their name at the table. But I think so often we don't do that. So no matter what the role is think about the tools that they need to absolutely have and get them in advance of them showing up.
Jessica Harling 29:52
Right and that that's the thing that I want to echo is getting it in advance often that is a result of a rushed recruiting process, because you get so excited that there's a candidate coming in that you say, Well, why don't we just get you started in a day? You know, if you're interviewing on Friday, you want to start a Monday? Are you really going to come in over the weekend? Again, all this setup for them? If the answer's no, then let them have two weeks, let them even preparing their mindset for coming into a new company, you're not going to lose them in that time, especially when you make a commitment to each other. So we got to have all of that setup prior to their arrival. So they feel like they can just hit the ground running.
Michele 30:33
And these are also just good things to go back and reconsider for employees that maybe we've had for a while. Do we need to up level the tools that they have, so that they felt like they can continue to be productive? Is there any type of additional training that they need, you know, we create education plans for our employees every year? Is there any additional training that they need, so that they can feel empowered, or they can help move us forward as a team and as a company. And so I pointing that out just because we've been talking about it more in the vein of hiring, but we also need to think about it again, because the whole idea here is retention. So yeah, we set them up, right. But then this, these are also ongoing in nature, making sure that we have updated training, making sure that we have updated tools, updated software, all of those things. So with that, let's talk about we've got this employee, they've been around for a little while, you know, long enough, then there are 30, 60, 90 days, we certainly have done touch points and reviews and those and given feedback. But your third tip is reviews. How do we do that? And an ongoing basis, let's say, past the first 90 days, what does that look like?
Jessica Harling 31:42
So my recommendation is to touch base on a quarterly timeframe with your employees at the very least by yearly. But today, employees like to feel like they're making a difference in the company. And part of that is having interaction with their leadership on a regular basis so that they can feel like they're giving input. So part of the review process is really just recapping what accomplishments have they achieved in the last quarter? And what obstacles did they face in achieving those goals, because you can learn that maybe they don't have the right tools, or maybe there's something that another employee could be struggling with in the same way. So we want to kind of do a recap of the last quarter and then do a refresher on the goals, see if they've achieved everything and if not, reset the goals for the next quarter, and then be able to provide the training to achieve those goals. Because it's not just training a new employee, when they first come in, we constantly have to be educating those employees throughout their career with the company
Michele 32:50
When I started corporate, I'm just gonna say a while back a few years ago, and it was really that whole, we're going to talk to you once a year, and then the rest of the time we're going to tell you where you're screwing up. I mean, that was really kind of the attitude at the time. And, you know, you always wondered where you were and how you fit in unless somebody told you. And now I am in agreement that people want more. And I think they don't just want these formal feedback opportunities, we certainly need those. But people are looking for relationships. So they really want to know and an ongoing basis. And you know, in all honesty, if somebody you know, missing the mark, you don't want to wait three months to tell them. And so, and you alluded to it, there are multiple types of reviews and multiple types of feedback that we give. And so some is a little bit more informal. I'd like to have at least every two weeks, at least a touch point with them, you know, a private 15 to 30 minute conversation, how are you? How's the family everything going? Okay? Is there anything in your way? What can I help you with building some relationship there, I'm not talking about going way too friendly. But but also letting them know that you care about them as people. And it is amazing how much more I think that kind of fits into your you know, your tip five of trust, it starts to build trust, because they believe that they're seen as people not just as an employee, or as a resource of the company. And then that also gives you a chance to kind of understand and tweak things a little at a time as you go. I was in maybe a little more formal review process every quarter the same way that you would more formally review your whole company, every quarter, you know, your financials, your marketing plans, everything, everything gets looked at that way. But just having that ongoing feedback, I think is so important. And it's just not the way that it used to be. But I think it's a really great thing going forward.
Jessica Harling 34:50
Yeah, I agree. I mean, I love my weekly meetings with the team because it keeps us in open communication and I trust that they are great. professionals that know what they're doing. So it's not, you know, this babysitting feeling for me, it really is being excited to hear what they accomplished and how I can help them move forward. And what I hear so many times from disgruntled employees is, nothing ever happens when you get into the yearly rotation, you know, that's why they feel that way. But nothing ever happens because they're only touching base once a year. And from a financial aspect. For me, at least, I found every employee was asking for a salary every single year, because back in the day, I wasn't teaching them or connecting with them, and an often basis and so it cost the company a lot more money, when if I could just be proactive and randomly give a review or reward on that quarter that they may be a rock star I add, it's going to be a lot more rewarding for that employee.
Michele 36:00
So that moves us to the fourth tip then is rewards. And what do you think about rewards because rewards is about so much more than money?
Jessica Harling 36:09
Absolutely. I mean, I look at it, you know, the fancy words are the extrinsic and the intrinsic motivations are the rewards where the extrinsic, the outward is the money, the praise, the bonuses. That might be you know, gift cards and that sort of thing. But the intrinsic, which a lot of people are motivated by is giving them time, caring about their family, caring about who they are as people, and allowing them to have some autonomy in the business and learn, you know, a new role or a new responsibility, I mean that people love growth and to see themselves reach new heights.
Michele 36:53
I love the book. And I don't know if you're familiar with it or not on the Five Languages of Appreciation in the Workplace. It is written by Gary Chapman and Paul White, and it is kind of then an adjunct to the Five Love Languages. And what I find so interesting about it, and I've done this with many of the teams that I have coached and consulted with over the years. And there are five appreciation languages. So it's going to touch the intrinsic and extrinsic. But so there's words of affirmation quality, time, acts of service, tangible gifts and physical touch. Certainly be careful with physical touch. But that could be like a high five, it could be a pat on the back, you know, it's just something. And so what it what it really boils down to is every person likes to be appreciated in different ways. And not only in different ways, but they found that people like to be appreciated differently based on who was doing the appreciating, meaning they might want to be appreciated by a peer one way and by their management a different way. And so when you understand that you can start to give appreciation in the way that they want it. One of the examples that it gave Jessica, what I thought was interesting was words of affirmation. So you know, an Attaboy, you did great or calling somebody out in a team meeting your employee of the month you did ABC and XYZ, there are some people that do not want to be called out in front of people. And so they actually found that they would diminish their work product so that they didn't get called out, they would do anything to keep from being called out, even if it was in a great way, right. And then you've got this other person that they would get either the gift card or they would get a raise, and they just wanted to be told what a great job they did. And so even though management and their mind are the companies thinking I have appreciated them by giving them the bonus, they really wanted to be told how important they were to the team, they really wanted to be told that they cared that you showed up or how you solve that problem was instrumental to our success. And so I think spending some time and trying to get to know our employees and then knowing how they want to be appreciated and how they feel that allows us to then modify if you will, to some degree, how we show it so that we give it in a way that they can receive it so that we then can continue it's like you know, I give my son a gift and he's like but I really just wanted to hang out with you guys. Right same kind of thing.
Jessica Harling 39:24
Yeah, absolutely. And one of the books I actually have Five Languages of Appreciation on my desk too. I love that book. The other one that I look at from a nuts and bolts perspective is a Carrot a Day by Adrian Goseck and Chester Elton and even just slipping to today's page. It's like one of those tear off calendars and it gives you inspiration of how to motivate your team each day and today's which is was so beautiful. It talked about you know employee doing, going above and beyond working a lot of hours. Maybe to you know, get a launch or a project up. And this manager in this example, ended up sending flowers to the wife that was at home and, and being sacrifice with the time away from, you know, their husband that was working hard. And so the result of that was the husband coming back and going, Yeah, my, you know, my wife loves the flowers that you gave her. And she told me to work more. So it just gives you great examples. And it's true, you just got to learn who your team mate is, and what they really get motivated by.
Michele 40:36
I liked that idea, too, because it recognizes that when we are doing above and beyond that there is an entire family, you know, there are other people potentially at home, who are also paying the price for that. It's not just the employee that is in the office. And I think that is important to remember, I know over the years on different places, and different things like my husband has won different awards, or gotten attaboys or whatever. And sometimes it's that same thing, here's a gift card for you and your wife to go out to dinner, I understand that we've taken up a lot of your family time. And that was, you know, as the wife at home getting the I was like, wow, I mean, I know how that we felt it was a big deal. And so you're like, wow, okay, they see that, that my husband is making some decisions to work with them. And that means he's also having to make a decision not to be with us to get that done. And so I think creating some really interesting ways to appreciate your team goes a very, very long way.
Jessica Harling 41:35
Absolutely. And, and I get asked all the time about you know, different types of benefit plans that are available, but I often like to encourage the non costed benefits, you know, the things like you know, wear your jeans one day if you want, or pulling all of your, your remake jobs, that there's nothing wrong with those products, but allowing the family and friends to come in and pick whatever they want. Those are real benefits to the employees, because they feel like they are getting rewarded. And they're a part of that bigger goal. Well, and just even sending out an email to the whole team recognizing somebody again, you know, within reason that doesn't like, make somebody wither up from embarrassment, but being called out in front of your teammates,
Michele 42:24
you know, having that extra place like back in the day when we actually went to work. And some of us still are, but having that that the you know, Employee of the Month who did something great, or recognizing how an employee helped another employee, right, and you get to park here, I mean, even just a parking place. You're right, if they don't all have to cost the company, financial resources, but they should cost the company something so that they're worth something. So even if it costs you five minutes of time to call it out, there should be something attached for it to matter.
Jessica Harling 42:58
Well, I like that concept of employees, sharing with employees, I used to have, we call it the Rockstar Rhino, it was a little statue of a rhino, that I got it like at Michaels and I painted it and add our weekly meetings. One employee who had the Rockstar Rhino for the week would acknowledge another employee and say, you know, I really liked how you handled this customer. I am, you know, recognizing you as the Rockstar Rhino for the week, and they would get the rhino and it would sit on their desk. And you know, they got to sign it each week and then pass it along to the next and it never was leadership doing that it was just the employees passing it to each other.
Michele 43:41
I always say reward what you want to continue reward and recognize what you want to continue. Right. Just like with the child positive affirmation, if they're doing something that's great, yes, keep doing that. That's awesome. And when we give peer to peer the ability to do that, I think it means a lot. That's why I thought that book, The five languages of appreciation, you know, I thought it was stunning to be honest with you the first time I read that probably seven, eight years ago, that to really sit back and think we do sometimes want to be recognized differently peer to peer than we do with our management. And being told by a peer you know, I love being part of a team with you or you really helped me or we did this together. There's such a different feeling of connection than just being recognized by the management of great job, Michele Are you know, great job, Jessica. So I think that's a really neat idea. And I love the idea of whoever had been recognized turning on the radar to recognize the next person. I think it makes us aware of how we're all working together. And that awareness then breeds his own excitement and, and which kind of just takes us right into that next tip and that is trust building trust. Not just again, manager to employee but peer to peer. So what are some ways? I mean, certainly the, the rhino could be a way to build trust because people are looking to work together. But what are some ways to build trust? And why is it so important?
Jessica Harling 45:16
So the three things that come to mind with trust that have always been really important to me and my teams is transparency, consistency, and ownership. And you know, you and I've talked about before where it's, there's so much fear circling around these days that if you could just be transparent or truthful, it's going to dissipate that fear.
Michele 45:40
Oh, I so agree with that, you know, I think sometimes is managers and owners and principals and our company, we sometimes are fearful to be transparent. And I'm not saying what we're not saying you got to like, open up your underwear toward people, right? I mean, there are certain things that you share at the right level and at the right amount of detail. So we're staying respectful here. However, if the company is going through a rough patch, you need to tell them we're going through a rough patch. And here's what we can all do, or help brainstorm what we can all do. I don't think employees want to just, they don't want to be blindsided. So if they are part of a company that they know, like, and trust and love, and enjoy and want to be at, they're willing to take the good with the bad, they're willing, as we said, from the very beginning, you don't leave a bad company, you leave a bad manager, most people are willing to roll up their sleeves and help fight for it if they believe in the company. And they believe in the mission and the vision and the why behind it. And we need to give them the ability to do that. And the only way to do that is to be transparent. Mm hmm.
Jessica Harling 46:45
Yeah, I mean, that buy in is so important. And if they just understand the the why, like you said, the decision behind it, how you came to that decision, you can get them on board a lot faster with your idea, but they just have to understand it. I mean, I worked for a company years ago that didn't want to share their company goals with their employees, because they had a fear that they may not reach the goal, they didn't want to disappoint the employee. But it left the team without direction without a compass. And so it seemed like leadership was hiding that information from the team. And that that wasn't the case, it just was a misunderstanding. And so by encouraging them to work towards that common goal, everyone can kind of see where that path is and what they need to do to get there.
Michele 47:36
Well, and sometimes I think we hold back, not just out of fear, but to that point, protection. And maybe sometimes we're protecting things that don't need to be protected. And that leads also into I think you mentioned the consistency, that means we can't just do this one time, we've got to show this over and over and over and over again, it takes it takes work, it takes forethought, and it takes dedication, to hold these ideals of transparency and consistency and ownership with the highest regard and to be able to, to stick to that path. Because it is definitely not an easy one.
Jessica Harling 48:13
Right. And just like you know, working out or working towards a goal, consistency is key. So if your goal is to retain your employee long term, that same secret sauce of consistency is going to be important. You know, because they like you said they don't want an unpredictable environment, they want to feel stable, they want to feel comfortable, especially if they're making a commitment that's going to support their family or their own personal goals. And so it just you have to show up consistently with them. That means, you know, if you correct them on an issue or problem, you got to correct them every time you can't just drop it or you got to congratulate them when that job is doing well. So whatever the response is, if you're going to correct or congratulate, you just have to be consistent with your message. And then ownership.
Michele 49:05
You know, how many times do I say, Well, I say it on every podcast, you know, profit is a choice and own your business. Get on it, you get on it, you get on it. And I love it. I mean, my tagline on my email is what you own, you can change, right? We can change what we have ownership over. And that you know it starts with us we can change our thoughts because we own and we can change our actions because we own it, and then carries through into the workplace.
Jessica Harling 49:32
Absolutely. And I often see you know, there's this concept of ownership that the leaders may not really connect with, or understand and it's the difference between being an authority leader and a leader, or authority manager and a leader. We can't place blame on each other or what we're doing or someone else because that blame is not taking ownership. Just because you're an owner of a company or leader of a team, you have to own your decisions. And if you made a mistake, that's fine, it shows your team vulnerability. It shows them that you're human too. And it will teach them that speaking up and taking ownership is the value that you want everyone to do. And so they won't hide things under the rug or, you know, push it into the closet and they have it collect cobwebs, when they can just say, you know what, I messed that one up. Next time, I'm going to do XYZ and then you'll move forward. So taking that ownership is really not placing blame on anyone but owning your decisions.
Michele 50:41
I've mentioned this on the podcast before, but I think it's worth mentioning again, Sara Blakely, of Spanx, great Instagram, by the way, if you don't follow her, she's hysterical. But she was on a podcast, I think it was on the how I built this podcast with Guy Raz, a couple of years ago, and one of the things that she talked about was learning in her home that it was okay to fail. learning that it was okay to not not get it right all the time to keep trying. Right. And so her family prompted them at night when they were around the dinner table. You know, where did you fail today. I mean, that was like a celebratory thing. And she said that it created this mindset, that all of that was just work to get you where you wanted to go next. And she's put that into her company. So that to all of these points that we've talked about. People may have been trained, they may have had the tools, she may have given them feedback and rewards. But she trusted and they trusted her that they could say, Hey, here's why I screwed up, or here's what I tried, and it didn't work. But the only way to really be innovative is to try things. And then to trust that people are going to give you and empower you with the ability to try something new within boundaries, of course, right and within resource allocation, but that we have the opportunity to make things bigger and better. But if we're not in an environment that is transparent and consistent, and that there's some ownership, we may never reach out for those innovations that could change the way we do business.
Jessica Harling 52:12
And it's, it's easy for an owner or leader to to have the phrase or that thought process of you need to prove your trust to me first. But that that just starts the relationship out on a rocky ground because both parties should come to the table with trust first, and work with each other to continue to build that trust, especially in the times that we're in if we're working remotely, or we can't have that daily interaction where you're actually seeing people come into their office, you know, I still get some leaders and owners going well, you know, they're not as productive because I'm not seeing them do the work. And that's just for this from the truth. It's building that trust with the team so that they can continue to do the work and offer communication and resources. In that remote environment. It's more communication, not less.
Michele 53:09
And I think we probably by and large, at least my experience, I can only speak from that rate. And from the experience that that I have attained from speaking with others, I think most of us have been pleasantly surprised in this very remote, year, year and a half that we've all been through and are going through that our employees and our teams have been able to be very successful from home. And so those ideas that we thought we needed to look at everything we thought we needed to manage, even if we wouldn't have considered ourselves a micromanager. Now, we're really realizing how much we actually could kind of let go. So that we learn to identify the KPIs that are most important. We provide oversight, we need to have oversight, and we have constant feedback. And really, if we're just if we've got that feedback loop tightened up, we don't have to sit on top of anybody and watch him, right. It's kind of like sit at the desk, just kind of don't do anything but say hello.
Jessica Harling 54:04
Right. And if you know your employees really well, then you can make accommodations. You know, for example, one of my team members is a mom of two and the two are very young kids that are going through, you know, remote learning right now. And that's a very new scary thing for a lot of parents. And you know, if I had the, the attitude of, well, you still have to, you know, do your work within these hours. I might have lost her in that process, but instead because of the type of work she does, you know, it didn't really matter to me if she worked at eight o'clock at night when you know, her kids were going to bed and those responsibilities that she had that she learned this year and couldn't control anything about it, that those were done and her mind was able to focus on other things. So sometimes it's not being married to the plan, but the goal and making sure that the work is still getting done. And, you know, if you need to make compromises or allow other team members to jump in, you know, that level of teamwork is what's going to build the foundation of the company.
Michele 55:13
Jessica, thank you so much for sharing these, these tips to retain our employees. I mean, it costs a lot to go through the process of finding the right person, onboarding them and training them. And the last thing we want to do is lose them over something that we could have managed or that we could have changed or that we could have done. So thank you for the conversation around those things that we always are, you know, looking at and trying to tweak and trying to make better. Do me a favor and tell this Where were you hanging out?
Jessica Harling 55:46
Sure. Behind the Design and myself are hanging out on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and Twitter, and our website also has a blog on employee recruiting, training and process development.
Michele 56:01
And that's at gobehindthedesign.com. correct? That's correct. Excellent. Well, we'll have all that in the show notes, so everybody can click on it and find you. And I just really appreciate the conversation today.
Jessica Harling 56:14
Yeah, that was a lot of fun. Thanks so much, Michele.
Michele 56:17
Thanks, Jessica. Have a good day. And Thanks, Jessica, for joining us today and sharing these insights to employee retention. As we said, good client retention comes from great hiring experiences. Planning for our teams before bringing them on is always better than scrambling once they show up. And the designers inner circle we work on creating plans before hiring and during the hiring process to make sure that we even have employees to retain. If you're interested in getting help reach out by going to www.ScarletThreadConsulting.com and setting up a discovery call. Trust me good hiring leads to great profits and it doesn't happen by accident.