146: How to Accelerate Your Design Business with Critical Thinking
Michele 00:01
Hello, my name is Michele and you're listening to profit is a choice. Joining me on the podcast today is Lane McNab of Lane McNabb Interiors. Based in Berkeley, California. Lane had a very interesting start to her design business and some immediate success right out of the gate, like multi-million, multi-year projects, right out of the gate. In this podcast, we're going to talk about moving forward without knowing everything in advance, managing fear, risk, and critical thinking. And then how these elements allowed her to move forward with creating her own furniture lines is such a great conversation. And I know you will be encouraged as you listen.
Michele 00:48
Every day empowered entrepreneurs are taking ownership of their company financial health, and enjoying the rewards of reduced stress and more creativity. With my background as a financial software developer, owner of multiple businesses in the interior design, industry, educator, and speaker, I coach women in the interior design industry to increase their profits, regain ownership of their bottom line and to have fun again in their business. Welcome to Profit is a Choice. Hi, Lane, welcome to the podcast.
Lane McNab 01:21
Hi, Michele, thank you so much.
Michele 01:23
I'm excited to talk to you. We've got a lot of fun things planned here. We're going to be talking all about furniture and creating your own furniture line, but before we do that, I would love to just hear a little bit of your journey. It's so interesting when I was looking over your bio and reading some of the things on your website, design was not your first job. Right. It wasn't the first path that you took. I'd have to say I think of all the people that I have interviewed I don't think I've ever met anybody that had a start like you did.
Lane McNab 02:00
I've heard that before.
Michele 02:04
A little bit about that. You're now on the West Coast. You started off in Tallahassee, Florida. And I was joking with you before we went on the air and you slowly moved your way across the United States. But tell us what you went to school for and what started because it's creative.
Lane McNab 02:20
That's true, that's true. That's one thing that is a continuation. I grew up in Tallahassee and I went to college, Rhodes College in Memphis, met my husband there. I mean, we weren't married when we were in college, but then we moved. So I majored in music. And I decided it was kind of a last minute change. I was minoring in music and majoring in English. And then I switched. And because I started, I was a singer and I started kind of entering competitions and doing well and was getting feedback that I should pursue it. So I did. And so when I graduated from Rhodes, I decided to go to graduate school. So I applied to grad schools, and got into the San Francisco Conservatory of Music, where I did my, I mean, this sounds like such a crazy, like, long, roundabout way to get to where I am, but I did my graduate work there, masters and a post grad. And then I started auditioning, my husband moved with me, boyfriend at the time, moved with me. And that was in the late 90s. And started auditioning and performing and getting jobs and working and singing with the San Francisco Opera and singing with all these regional companies, and it was going great. My husband and I got married and started a family and it just became kind of difficult to manage all of it. Now having said that, like many interior designers, the kind of I don't know the story that honestly gets a little bit old to hear, but it's like, oh, I always loved interior design. I always did it. That's true for me too. And so I was kind of pulling back with my singing career, being more of a mom but still performing. I sang with the Opera Chorus and in San Francisco for a while and while I was doing that, my other thing that I had always loved doing started becoming more important. My husband and I bought a house and sold it in San Francisco, we bought our house in the East Bay and sold it and then bought our house that we're currently in, in Berkeley and during that time I was diving into learning how to renovate and remodel and design and but just totally as a hobby. And then about 10 or 11 years ago, well probably about 12 years ago I had started a blog that was starting to get some attention and then I about 10 years ago I started doing projects for friends and still singing still being a mom and then acquaintances started calling and one of my early projects got a lot of attention. The Today Show picked it up which is super surprising for just like doing it as a hobby and, and then I got some features, a lot of features on Houzz because it was early days of Houzz. And and then clients just started calling and I wasn't planning to have a business at that point. But I decided that I really wasn't getting any gratification from singing anymore, it was kind of becoming more of a burden. And interior design was definitely where my heart was. And I needed to get in front of it. So I quickly hired a consultant and got all my processes in place, got my software going, just kind of a plan together, and then launched the business. So that's been a little about a little over 10 years. And I should also say that prior to that I had worked with a builder to help pull in clients and sort of manage the projects while I was learning how to do it. And that was really just because I liked doing it, I did get paid. But it wasn't like earning a living. But it was just kind of so I could have that education around how to do this. And so I launched the business. And then pretty quickly, I got my first surprisingly, my first multimillion dollar project, which was just a combination of good timing, and then that sort of having being in the mental headspace to just say, I'm doing this, and then things have grown from there. I have an eight person firm now. And we do projects all over the Bay Area. And it's Yeah, it's great.
Michele 06:41
Alright, so I have a couple of questions. The first is, I mean, seriously, that is, that's not a journey that I've heard before. It's a very different journey. I mean, it certainly there are elements, you know, like people doing something creative prior to or starting off as a hobby, then turning it into a business and all of that. I'm even the blog piece, I've had quite a number of either clients or people that I've worked with that started off with something like that. What was it that caught the eye of the today's show? How did that happen? Because I know my listeners are gonna be like, Okay, this is good, but do not glance over having that happen.
Lane McNab 07:15
So it was on the Today Show website, they were doing an article about I think it was before and afters. And it was me and like David Bromstad, which was shocking to me at the time. And then a handful of other designers and I think they found the project through Houzz. I'm not totally sure because I never did a lot of direct communication with whomever it was that contacted me about it. It was sort of like we found this project, we'd like to use it in this article that we're going to feature on our website. And could we use your photos. I mean, the funny thing is, I think the article has since been taken down because it was like 10 or so years ago now. I still have it listed on my press page. But the funny thing is, I was doing everything at the time on my own just with like a little Canon camera, it was even before iPhones really like I didn't have you know, that kind of like photography and stuff. One of the after pictures, you could actually see my reflection in the mirror and I had my daughter, I think she was a baby at the time. I didn't even know it until I saw it on because I was just taking the picture myself just for my own, kind of like, post this on my on my Houzz page. And, and then you can actually see me in the reflection and the mirror of that.
Michele 08:39
Oh my gosh, that makes me laugh. It makes me think of the first time that I was in a magazine back in. Oh gosh, 2005 2007 early days from now, right. And it was for the interiors piece and they asked me for a headshot. I did not have a headshot. So I went and got our church photo and photoshopped my husband and children out of it.
Lane McNab 09:06
You got to be scrappy, sometimes.
Michele 09:09
You got to be scrappy, and we were under a deadline. So it wasn't like I had time to go schedule something and have a name. And so I sent the picture and you can see just the corner of my husband shoulder. We always laugh I have one in the in my in my workroom and my husband always laughs. He's like, Oh my gosh, I was in that picture with you and wasn't that the church directory? But yeah, it was but I had to use what I had to use got to do with it. And I so remember those Canon days. And then I would take the little SD card out and stick it into my computer and try to pull over all the pictures and you couldn't even see them when you were taking them on some of it to even know how great it was.
Lane McNab 09:50
You just have a good screen on the back that you try to zoom in to see me
Michele 09:57
My gosh the days have changed, haven't they?
Lane McNab 09:58
That's true, but I do think A lot of that was, you know, I think I was just a bit ahead of the curve. I mean, this was a very early days of Houzz and I had never even heard of Houzz, but my husband works in the tech industry. And he knew that I was starting to do these design projects. And he said, Oh, you should get a Houzz account. And so I just went to Houzz and got on it. And I think a lot of publications and things were probably looking for content. And that became a place that they would go, and that must be what happened with the today show. And they just went and found them in the project. Honestly, that project still gets a lot of hits, which is crazy, because it's like, so not what I would do anymore, you know, but it's just, it happened to be something that resonated.
Michele 10:43
Wow. And you know, one of the things that also makes me think of and, and I am watching and kind of seeing looking into your story, as you share it is either you didn't know enough to be afraid, or you ignored it. Because you know how many people you know, I'm not, not this, people don't but just that putting yourself out there, even on Houzz when you're doing it for yourself or as a hobby, not expecting it to be a business, but putting it out there. Just that step out there. And then you made the comment a little bit later about getting in the mental headspace. Talk to me a little bit because I think this is this is a nugget that we need to dig into. Because as we start to look at what you've done with the furniture line and other things, I think there's something around this and working through fear or not having it like some people and getting yourself in the right headspace for what you want to do or what's coming next. Because these things were not on your radar, when you started some of this, it was probably close to my own house, the one that's in front of me, let's do the next house. That's now leave the next house, okay, now my neighbor's this the way my mind started, people came into my home and said me, they laying my doorbell while I'm standing there with two bolts of fabric and said, if you'll make stuff in our house, like you've done in yours, we'll pay you. That's how it started. And I was like, Okay, I guess I guess we're going to something here. And that's what I did. And others have said the same thing. You know, maybe they documented the renovation of their own home on Instagram, or Houzz, or a blog or some platform. And then people started calling because they want to know, right? Or they put it out on Pinterest. Talk to me about fear, lack of fear. Where have you seen that thread move you in your business?
Lane McNab 12:33
I think it's amazing. You picked up on this because you actually almost said one of my little internal mantras in your question. So I didn't know this about myself when I started. But I have since figured it out by mentoring other people and sort of trying to help them. And I don't do a lot of mentoring. But when I did a podcast several years ago, I got a lot of young designers kind of reaching out and saying, How did you do it? So one of my mantras, internal that I just kind of came up with is do something before you know too much about it to be afraid to do it.
Michele 13:13
I've heard that sometimes, they say if you know everything, the fear would start out.
Lane McNab 13:18
That's true. And I think there's so much out there right now and in a great way that I didn't have access to when I was starting, especially in the world of podcasts. But I do think it can sometimes be paralyzing. And I think there's you sort of have to know what your limit is of what you can absorb. Before you start feeling like I can never I can never do this. So I think the way to kind of get yourself back on track with that is to not try to know every step before you do something. Just know the next step.
Michele 13:55
Isn't that true about everything though? My niece just had a baby. And we were giggling at the fact that she's like, I'm waiting to come home to see which nurse they're going to send home with me. And that was like, Yeah, don't we all wish that somebody would have come home with us at that very beginning, right, just. And so I was talking to my daughter in law, and she's a nurse and we were just having this conversation. And I said, you know our goal is really just to keep them alive. Just keep them alive. At the very beginning. If I knew everything that was going to happen in my parenting journey, it would have scared me to death as a young wife and a young mom I would have been like pump the brakes baby. But I would have missed the joy and the excitement but you're just you know, I always talk about it too is it's like grace for that next moment. I don't necessarily have the skill set and I'm not equipped and I don't have the grace for six miles down the road. I have it for that next moment. And when we talk about lighting up our path, we can only writing up the next step or two, we can't wait up a whole ball filled all the time with everything that we're doing. So we just take the next best step that we can take. So let me ask us, what is your risk tolerance? Like? Because I think fear along with risk, are you? Do you usually take risk? Are you? Are you risk averse? Or you find yourself in the middle? How would you describe it?
Lane McNab 15:23
I think I'm in the middle, but I think I think I have a good, I trust my instincts around being able to assess what I can do and what I can't do. And I know what I can't do very well. And there's a lot I can't do. And I am very confident in my ability, though. But I sort of look at it as like, we're all on this little scale, and your superpower is allowed, because of the things maybe you're not as good at,
Michele 15:55
Right? Because we can't focus attention and energy and effort on everything. That's why I I scream from the mountaintops on this podcast about the Strengths Finder, the Gallup strengths finder. Because what their 34 strengths, but what it does is it helps you recognize where your top strengths are. So that those are the ones that we build and maximize. And then I look at the others. And I don't feel so bad that they're further down the list. Because if I was building those, I wouldn't be building these.
Lane McNab 16:22
Exactly right. Yeah. And I should I should do one of those assessments are those personality, I haven't done them. But yeah, they like to do that. Just an aside, I like to do, and I'll put it in the show notes.
Michele 16:36
I'd love to do the strengths finder with my clients, and I have the owner of the company do the full 34. And then I have you take all of your team members and do their top five, then you can see as a firm, where the strengths are in the company, and you can start to identify where there might be missing strengths if you need to hire or if you need to do some education. So it's always just a neat tool to have to understand what makes your company strong. That's great.
Lane McNab 17:03
Yeah, that I'm sure that would be so useful for us.
Michele 17:06
So you, you weren't afraid to put your work out there. And I think that is amazing, Lane, because how many young designers do we hear that are? And granted, it's a little bit different day and age right now. But I think we also have to be careful because these young designers are putting out their work. And listen, if somebody on here sees work that they don't like, please don't call it out on their on their business page, you know, email them, if you have something kind and constructive to help. I emailed a young client of mine one time who had put out a picture, she didn't even pay attention to the fact that when they had loaded in the sofa, they had put the cushion upside down. So the pattern was all out of whack. She put it up. And I immediately saw like my I went right to it. And I just texted her and I said, hey, there's a beautiful shot. But you might want to go back and take one of the sofa. And she said, Oh my gosh, like when you've looked at something so much you don't see it, right? But just having that pushing through the fear to just put your work out there. Because you you would not have been found as easily for the today show by a client by anybody if you hadn't just taken the step of putting your putting your work out there?
Lane McNab 18:18
Well, I think there's so much talk, not just within the industry, but just in society these days of being okay with failure. I know, it's a big tech principle, you know, you kind of have to fail to get better. I wouldn't say I'm okay with failure necessarily, especially on a grand scale. That would be really scary. But I was okay with knowing what little failures I could tolerate along the way. Right. Yeah. And then kind of use that as like a learning to get better at the next project, the next whatever it was. So I think that that was something that I utilized that that first luxury project I got was also a big gift in itself. But I think I almost didn't take it because it was terrifying.
Michele 19:04
That's right. That was why when you said I went here and put out work, and then I hired a consultant, then again, a multimillion dollar. Yeah, I mean, and we know that it's not I know that it's not just bang, bang, bang, easy. And it's not a general course, that I would say many of us have an opportunity to take. But there is this thing about, like you said, knowing your strengths, whether you do strengths finder and not you internally know your threshold for what you believe that you can do the risk you're willing to take failure you're willing to put forth or allow right what it what is that so that when that big job comes along like you had you get to have that moment of am I going to step into it or am I going to step back?
Lane McNab 19:51
Yeah.
Michele 19:52
What do you think pushed you to say yes. And step forward into that because I bet you that. I mean, just from the outside. You haven't even told me this yet. I'm betting that catapulted everything. And I'm betting that like created a shift.
Lane McNab 20:04
It did. The funny thing is, I and I probably would get more insight into this if I did one of those personality tests. But I remember very clearly the moment of making the decision to do it. I had met with a client, we talked about the project, it actually the discussion was about the projects was smaller than what it ended up being. But it still felt very overwhelming. And I even said out loud to the client, like I'm, I'm a little bit busy right now. And I'm not sure that I have capacity for this project at the moment. And the client very nicely was like, well, it's okay, if you don't, we'd love to work with you, but just let us know. And there was something about me seeing that project going away. That lit this fire in me. And in the moment, and I just went, I have to do this project.
Michele 20:57
The fear of losing it was worse than the fear of taking it.
Lane McNab 21:00
Exactly right, and so I, I just pivoted in the conversation and said, you know, what, I know I've, and I think I had just hired my office manager, that was the only other person I had on the team. But I said, I think we, I just had brought some new people on or something like that, you know, kind of making it sound a little more polished than it was and, and I said, I think we can make this work. And I'd love to work with you. And, and then I just sort of said, Well, I think that's the other part that is very important. And it's something that I look for in hiring now. Which is critical thinking. And I think that is so it's just something that I don't think can truly be taught. And I think you can help people get better at it and develop it. But it is something that is a little bit innate. And I think I knew I didn't know what I was doing. But I trusted that I would be able to figure it out. And that was how I went forward. So I and that's exactly how the project worked. I remember it was a three-year project with.
Michele 22:10
I was going to ask you how long the project was.
Lane McNab 22:12
Yean, and we and doing other projects, too, at the same time. But that one was a three-year project. And it was my introduction to a wonderful luxury construction firm here and an internationally renowned architect and, and I honestly just sat there with my little notepad. And every time I didn't know what they were talking about, I just wrote it down and wrote and wrote down as much as I can figure out from the conversation. And then I just researched constantly. I mean, that was a deep education. And I've always been a self like a constant learner. I love I don't like not knowing things. So if there's something I don't know, I will spend whatever time I need to spend to figure it out.
Michele 22:55
Was that project profitable for you?
Lane McNab 22:57
Yeah, very profitable.
Michele 23:00
Probably profitable in more than one way. It sounds like it was certainly monetarily profitable. Well, that's good, because a lot of times when people get moved into those that they don't know how to price it, and they don't know what to do. You know, that could be a smack. But that's awesome. But it was also profitable in your education. It was profitable, and the elevation of your if your firm and future direction, but it you say.
Lane McNab 23:23
It definitely was, I think when I would have it would be more profitable for me now, because I just know so much more. And I'm so much more confident and my pricing. But it compared to what I was doing before it was very profitable. And it definitely set me up well to take on more projects and make more hires. I did hire my first design assistant during that project. But I think one thing that helped was I had worked with a consultant. Prior to or actually it was during that project. During the beginning part of that project, I worked with a consultant to get everything up to speed and figure out how I was going to price stuff and get my software going and how to do proposals and purchase orders and invoices and all of that. And that's probably the main reason that I wasn't spinning my wheels,
Michele 24:10
Right? Because some of those foundational pieces had been set for you before you move forward. So then you could spend your time learning more about the design and the implementation of that.
Lane McNab 24:20
Yeah. And I was in my I think I was 37 when I started that project. So I was not I had already I'm the most over educated. I've had way too much school. I was not going to go back and do design school. I was not going to go intern with someone I had three kids. I was not going to start from that internship type kind of learning way of doing it. I just had to do it myself and figure it out. Or it was just not going to happen.
Michele 24:52
Right so there you are. I love it. Scrappy. My degree and my base. of work was all in Information Systems and business and financials and management and all of that. And then I came over and started something completely different. And but it's okay, because I think it goes back very much to the critical thinking. I know my mom was a school teacher for 30 something years. And she made the comment that in our school systems years ago, like when I went through school, we were taught critical thinking we were given, you know, situations, and what would you do? And how would you handle this? Or what are three ways you could approach this? I mean, we were taught, I agree with you that some of it can't be taught, but it can certainly be sharpened. And you can start to ask yourself how to think I've always been a very critical thinker. And my mom even made the comment that in the curriculums and some of the things that were happening, that over the years, it was like it was taken out. And so we, you know, she started watching, kids come in where something would happen, and they wouldn't know what to do next. Like they wouldn't even know how to take the next step. I don't know if it was that helicopter parenting time where moms and dads told them every next move, as opposed to taught them how to decide what to do. I know, we went through a lot of that with our sons when they were younger, we did a lot of work of what do you think we should do? And then if we agreed with them, we didn't say they were like, okay, we just let them do it? Or you know, we would, but we would ask those questions instead of just answering. And it allowed them to start thinking that way. And so I'd love that you look for that. What types of questions do you ask in the interview? To assess if they have critical thinking skills?
Lane McNab 26:42
Well, that's so great. So that's a great question. One thing that I have done incredibly well over the last eight months or so is hired a creative. She's our creative teams manager, but she is the kind of yin to my yang right now. So all the stuff that I don't do well, which is the implementing processes and organization and sort of the management of stuff she is doing. She comes from the she actually comes from the tech world to Airbnb, but she has a design background as well. And so she gives a design packet out and asks that the potential hires work through problem solving design problems within the programs that we use. And then they return it. And she and I assess it. And then we have an interview process where we talk about after preliminary interview what she does, I come in for the second round. And I love to ask things like, tell me a situation in your employment history, where a problem arose, and you solved it, and to kept to sort of take me through the steps of how they came to the solution. Because it is we set ourselves up well for success. And our employees have well for success when we have very easy to follow processes. But as we all know, in this industry, yeah, there's always going to be something that comes up.
Michele 28:13
they only go so far. A great process is still only 75 to 80% in most cases, and it's the 10 to 20% that can knock us off our feet if we can't stop and think around it, right? I mean, it's especially if you're in a build world or renovation, you never know where you're going to find when you open things up and move things around. And it is rare that things are like that's exactly what I thought exactly how I envisioned it. It happened exactly on the timeline, but not a blip. Like those are, you know, we need to write stories about those because they don't happen very often. It's true.
Lane McNab 28:47
Yeah. And I am not someone who likes deciding things on the fly. So we do front load as much as possible, which really was started out as my sort of process crutch, because I don't want someone to ask me in the moment, whenever, you know, we're all standing around and the plumber is there. And he's going to what do you want to do here I want to know, six months ago, put it in the plans and then everyone can follow the plans. And then if something comes up, I kind of have a better sense of the decision to make. So we do try to front load as much as we can. And inadvertently that helped align me with high end builders, because that's what they're looking for.
Michele 29:27
They don't want that on the fly. Because it doesn't allow them to prepare either. So Lane as your business has grown from that initial like, oh, okay, here we go on. We really yeah, we're not even putting on this. I would say we're not even putting on big girl panties for that when we went straight to the Spanx, right. Here we go. Here we go. And I'm so thankful that that worked out so well for you and you learned a lot about the luxury market. You've learned a lot like you said about how to work and that's not just work in that space, but we're With the other people that are working in that space with the products, they're showing up in that space, and I want to show your design business is still flourishing still going. But in the process of all of this, I'd like to dig into a little bit now about you have created your own product line. So can you kind of give me the genesis of the product line? Like, what? Where did it start? And it was it one of these ideas that again, that you're like, I don't know everything? So I better go before I know at all.
Lane McNab 30:29
Yeah, probably. So I think it started because there were times where I was looking for specific pieces for clients that I was struggling to find. And I can trace it back to one particular instance, with a dining table where we ordered from a high end manufacturer, and when it arrived, it just was nothing but problems. I mean, we were we had to have carpenters come in to tweak this and tweak that and fix this and, and it just was becoming a money drain to the point where eventually I just said, You know what, I'm just going to buy you guys a new table, where I'll take this table out, I wasn't getting the response I was hoping for from the manufacturer, which you think with high end, you would think you would get an even higher response. Right? Yeah. And they were nice about telling us how to solve problems, but I just kind of wanted it until the problem. Yeah, so um, so I, over the 10 plus years, I've been kind of doing this, I've developed a lot of relationships with crafts, people, artisans, wood workers, work rooms, etc. And I think maybe being from the south, or I don't know what it is, but I tend to be quite respectful and have good manners and work in, in alliance with people rather than come in angry. And you know, if there's a problem, we can solve it, and let's solve it together. And so I have really good relationships with all of these people. And so I started having one of our carpenters build pieces for clients that we designed. And that way, not only was I designing pieces that fit my aesthetic, but I knew the quality that was going into them. I knew the manufacturing process, and we could make visits to the to the shop and check on it. And then that started developing a little bit more into Well, let's try our upholstery workroom, let's you know, so it was case goods and upholstery and, and, of course, we'd always done pillows and things like that. But I found the furniture designed to be incredibly rewarding. In what way Tell me about that. It was just another really wonderful creative outlet, I love to sit and sketch what I wanted to do. And take that really literal inspiration in my mind. Anyway, very literal, literal inspiration into a product, it's that we do these interior design projects that can take years. And it's a little bit sprawling, and it's a lot of this was so it was taken down to like a microscopic level.
Lane McNab 33:15
You could see the sketch, you could see the prototype. And then you can see the finished product. And I found that just really rewarding. It was just so nice to look at it and be like, wow, I did that, you know, like I designed that there's the drawing I did, you know, a year ago, and there's the table. So it's just that's very rewarding. And I love that clients respond to it. And then to add into that, what my focus is for projects across the board, but is quality and kind of authenticity, authenticity of materials mostly. And that tied into a sustainability issue be a factor that we're also making a part of the furniture line. But the main focus is that elegance and beauty combined with quality. And that is something that you can't fully oversee if it's not yours. And now I know how to do that how to tweak things to make them that way. And then that fits a certain level of client and price point that we were aiming for. And that's what I'm often trying to educate clients to do anyway, which is don't just do the fast immediate gratification or planned obsolescence. Invest in pieces that you're going to have and you're going to pass down to your kids. And so that's what we did. The designs are all pretty, they're anchored in classicism, but they translate to a contemporary transitional type of design. And they're all solid wood. I mean, I can't get into all the manufacturing processes that we're implementing You know, if something ages, you're not going to throw it out, you're not going to put it in a landfill, you're going to have that sofa re upholstered because maybe in 15 years a fabric is going to give out, but the internal components are not going to give out on the sofa. Same with the tables, they're all solid wood. If something happens to a finish, you can just get it refinished. And if you go with our standard finishes, which are non toxic, and plant based, you can actually spot refinish, you don't have to refinish the whole thing. So that that's just an added level of I wanted to have everything have that longevity to it.
Michele 35:34
Now, when you started off designing pieces for your clients for the need that they had, right? Certainly with quality and value and the aesthetics and all of that built in. When did you or what, what prompted you to go Wait a minute, I think I might be able to do this and sell it on a larger scale than a one off piece for one client. Because I know designers all the time are designing something and having their woodworker do this or having their iron and metal person do this, we all do that. And then sometimes in a smaller form or in a very individual situation. But you took that individual situation lane and made it into more what was the prompting for that?
Lane McNab 36:22
Well, a few years ago, I decided I did want some diversification within the business. And I, I love working on projects with clients and you know, seeing those projects through to the end. But it can be very overwhelming to constantly be looking for the next client and the next client. And so I wanted I know everyone is wanting to do licensing now. And you know, have their products be carried by a large manufacturer. I mean, that's great. But I also felt like why don't know, When is that going to happen? And there's a lot I can't you put your name on something, but how much do you you've done the design? But have you dug into all of the details around how it's made and all of that. So I decided I just wanted to do it myself and start from there to see how it would go. And then you're right, Michele, it actually, I didn't know all the steps. I was just like, I have these ideas in my head. And that I designed them a couple of years ago, when I my mom was very ill and I went home to Tallahassee to help her and during the week and a half I was there, I just wouldn't. When I wasn't with her, I just was sitting down and just sketching. That's all I did for that time period. And all the designs for the first collection just came out in that week and a half. And it was initially prompted by wanting to diversify, but not really knowing how or what it would be. And then those designs happened. You know, they kind of like people say I don't even I just kind of doesn't even feel like I did it like I know I did, but they just sort of all came to paper. And then taking those designs and saying Okay, let's figure out how we're going to make these. And then we did and that took a while it's you know, over two years ago now and we're just starting to be profitable with the furniture line.
Michele 38:21
That's awesome.
Lane McNab 38:21
Now that it's an investment.
Michele 38:23
It is an investment. It really is. How did you? How did you go about? Are you having your pieces made? And they're like, we could sit here for probably five hours and talk about this. But are you having your pieces still made by the local artisan? or How did you how did you search out and find that because that also, there's one thing about mass production and another thing about really being able to own the quality you know, having under drapery workroom I couldn't turn stuff out and I couldn't deliver $30 drapery panels, your those are turned, there's just no way not to have that as a turn, right? That's a quick and fast and monofilament thread and let me pull it together and send it out. That's what that is. It's no different than some of the quick ship kind of things that they're quick for a reason. And when you start to really look at things that are taking, they're more engineering based and you are selecting each input into it very carefully, whether it is wood, or fabric or springs or coils, or whatever it is you're choosing, and you're making those selections and then you are handcrafting it or you are managing the creation of it costs more. It takes longer. But you usually have the pride of whoever is crafted and created that standing behind it. And so that is where you get more control over that process, the closer the process is to you. And so when you made your decision to I'm going to say for now do it this way, because we none of us know what things might look like. as we as we go forward, but for now to control that process so that it could really, I would say, fulfill the vision of what you wanted your furniture to be. Right, right. Did you? Did you go back to those same craftsmen? Are you using the same craftsmen? And how did you because you have to make sure that all of those people are on the same, you know, they're aligned with the same vision that you have for this product to be able to have it turned out the way you want it.
Lane McNab 40:27
Yeah, so that's exactly right. And it's actually multi fold, because it's not one type of product. We have upholstery, and we have case goods. And we have a combination of upholstery and case goods in our bed so and we have metal, so we have metalworking and involved with the bed as well. So, yes, to all of that. What, what how, how we navigated all of that was I created three principles that were our guiding lights for decision making. So the first was the highest quality. The second was sustainability and environmental stewardship. And the third was customization. And all of those actually ended up supporting each other. I don't hit anyone over the head with the sustainability factor. Because, first of all, it's just my principal. It's not, I don't want to greenwash the line, I don't want it to be a marketing tool. It's just what I do when I make the pieces. The reason for that is that well, that it feeds the other two principles very well. Because if something is customized, and if something is of the highest quality, people are not going to be so quick to throw it away. Exactly, exactly. And people are willing to invest in something they love. They're not always willing to spend the extra money to do it, because it's good for the environment. So if I'm doing that, from the, from the beginning, and I'm creating a piece that really resonates with a client, and it has the backing of the multi line showroom that has picked me up, Sonia Sato in San Francisco, and then we have some, we have Pacific Northwest representation as well through Eric, Eric Waldorf. Those are sort of stamps of approval that yes, this is a piece that is worth getting. So that was part of our strategy as well is to present our pieces to these very reputable high quality showrooms and get their representation. So that it is an added kind of part of the puzzle when people are shopping. So those principles were how we made the decisions. And yes, we are still using the original artisans that we partnered with. Some of them were actually super easy to partner with because they already did the things I was looking for. And some of them we have brought on board with our practices. And then we are expanding as well, to pull in more the really the most difficult one or the casegoods. And as the industry has gotten busier and busier, maintaining the price points that we started out with and finding the talent to do that, as well as to to scale up is our current challenge. So we have broken out the finishing away from the carpentry and that's helping so we've got a finisher doing the finishes a carpenter doing the builds. We have another workroom who's making the bed and then we have an upholstery, a third, third or fourth workroom, doing the upholstered goods,
Michele 43:55
That's good too, because that initial sit down so that everybody does what they're really great at and what they're skilled at, which means they're more profitable in the long run. Yeah, because they're doing the same things that they can they can scale those things like that. They can do more of that but you've got to jump around to all of that. It is definitely much more difficult.
Lane McNab 44:16
Yeah. I mean, it's interesting because we so we sourced I didn't want to everything I wanted to be high quality and as you know there are multiple components to every piece. So you know the fabric we sourced we wanted to do 100% Belgian linen, and the mills where it's being manufactured meets certain environmental standards as well for the for the bed even down to like we have these solid brass caps and funerals on the on the bed that we did. And that was weirdly The hardest part of the whole process of the whole product line. was getting these caps to look the way I wanted them to look and to have that heirloom quality brass with no lacquer and polished beautifully. So we just put so much money into purchasing all the components upfront. So now everything's ready to go. You know, once an order is placed, we've got it all there, it just has to be put together, and then boom, it goes out. And as we all know, with lead times within the industry and being what they are right now, because of international shipping being so crazy, and in the pandemic, and all that our lead times are actually really good, because everything's made right here.
Michele 45:25
That's awesome. Now, when you think about long term profitability for your firm, not just the profitability of money, but it sounds like you really are focused on helping build a strong team, you have a team of eight, I think you mentioned, and then we're looking at the profitability not only, again, the product line, but the pieces being profitable for the person who purchases them, because they're not filling up the landfill. It's not tossing everything out. It's good heirloom quality pieces that hopefully they want to pass down. And that I do hope that the kids come along today start to appreciate some of the things that are already out here instead of Yeah, just throw everything away and start over. What's your plan for all of that our long after? I mean, not at the very beginning, certainly. But do you think about the that all the way out? Or has some of it been some really happy mistakes or happy bonuses that have come with it?
Lane McNab 46:27
Yeah, I think it's probably a combination. But I think almost it's more, maybe more than happy mistakes, although that's part of it. It's been sort of like happy self realizations.
Michele 46:39
Yeah,
Lane McNab 46:39
I grew up in my grandparents house, my grandfather was an architect, and my grandmother was a big collector, and we had antiques everywhere in the home with, you know, designed and built by my grandfather. And, and that was, I mean, I and I've told this story before, but I remember like everything in that home was all the doorknobs and the hinges and everything were solid unlacquered brass, and of course, that's what everyone is doing now. And, you know, we can bypass the kind of brushed lacquered brass for for that sort of richness and quality. My grandmother would go around and polish the doorknobs before a party, you know, it's just kind of that sort of Old World attention to finishes and quality. And authenticity has always been a part of what I do whether or not it's in a traditional sense, or a contemporary one. So I love translating the old world materials into contemporary designs. And that has always been a part of what we do as a firm and what what my aesthetic tends to be. And, and so that was, I didn't necessarily know it when I started. But then as I was designing, it became very apparent like, Oh, this is what I'm doing.
Michele 47:54
Now, when you kind of look back like oh, look what I'm actually what and I get that but I'm doing here there.
Lane McNab 47:58
Yeah, exactly. And I love antiques. I love incorporating old pieces in I think the one thing that and I think this is probably true for most people, but I don't do like all antiques or all modern or whatever. It's not eclectic in a in an overwhelming way. But I think there's something so important about having that richness, that depth to a piece that makes a room feel so much more enriching.
Michele 48:29
It's just warm and inviting. I think about it, to your point, not a really eclectic, but I think of it as collected and exactly right, a little more curated and collected. I know I love antiques, I'd love depression, Eric glass I, I grew up in the south, and everybody around was in a mill town. So everybody around me everything we had, it was usually the real stuff. But people kept it forever. Like they didn't go back and replace they didn't. They, they took care of what they had. And they used every ounce of it. They sometimes would remake it into something else when it had done its job over here. Everybody sewed. And so I remember I still have upstairs my first suit when I started working in tech here in Georgia, that my mother made for me. I mean, it is a beautifully designed, I wish I could still fit in. Right. But it is beautifully tailored and it's tailored exactly to my body. And you know, now we might look at that and think, Oh gosh, but my goodness, if I could go back and have clothing that was that well done that fit my body and do it in a heartbeat, you know. And so there was just that detail to things and so now I know I even have a hard time thinking you want me to do everything brand new. I need some I need some crunchy and crusty in the room. I need something that grounds it on those and that doesn't make it feel like I'm just going and having a catalogue and redoing something, you know that that's not it's not. It's not how I grew up and it's not what I, what I feel. And I think that's an interesting perspective to, Lane, is. You probably had no idea growing up, that your grandmother's shining, the doorknobs would have such an impression on you. Yeah. And then think of all those years for all these people who bought those houses and through all those doors, I know,
Lane McNab 50:25
I know.
Michele 50:26
Yeah. And you're just like, Oh, no, and we bought the cheap imitation. Remember, we got real brass lamps for our wedding 30 something years ago. And you know, I've got some of my grandmother's brass lamps, and they are all patina. And I look at them, like, I love them, I love them. And then we got like some of the cheap brassy, the brassy, brassy, yak stuff that you really could. Yeah, and I'm just, I don't even want to clean them. Because the patina is I mean, I keep them dusted. But the patina is so deep, and it's so beautiful. And it's so rich, and it feels like it tells the new shades and on them, but it feels like they tell a story to me.
Lane McNab 51:06
Absolutely. And that's so what it's what it's about, I think, I think your home tells your story. And then the pieces have a life before and hopefully after you, you knew, I mean, that's also something that we do. We offer many of the case goods in reclaimed white oak. And so I've purchased a bunch of wood from I mean, this wood is probably 500 years old. I mean, it's you know, from barns in the Midwest, and there are these white oak beams that have been when the trees were cut down in the 17 and 1800s, they were probably already like 300 years old, we don't have old growth, we don't have original growth anymore in this country. So the the grain compression, the density of the wood, it's not something you can get, you just can't get it so and it's recycled. So or upcycled, or however you want to look at it, it's not only making it a better piece, this wood was touched by hands, centuries before you, and you can have this in your home. And hopefully future generations will have it as well. And that's a story that it's not even a story because story almost sounds like a marketing tool. It's just something when you touch it, you can't help but be pulled into the consciousness of that moment. And that is kind of what we're all striving for right now.
Michele 52:30
You know, it's a grounding. I mean, it really is a grounding. Yeah.
Lane McNab 52:33
You know,
Michele 52:34
I love it. Well, I love your story. And I love and there's so many lessons that I think have come out of our conversation. You know, kind of I love it. You said kind of that start before you know it all before you're too scared to start, right, just kind of get going. I think it's a good reminder to know our risk tolerance and our failure tolerance and, and our strengths, how far can we go or the strength of those around us, the team that we've built. And I love your reminder about choosing things based on quality, based on good stewardship of our environment, and our communities and everything else. And then having some pieces that groundless I think all of that is just a beautiful thing. I think that's also what's added to the profitability of your company, and your firm is having those types of ideas, because that tells me then that you care enough about your clients that you want to help them create those spaces with the right products in the right timeline. And certainly there these things are going to cost. I mean, we're not acting like these are all you know, $3 at the corner, but
Lane McNab 53:45
yeah,
Michele 53:45
There's a there's an investment for that. But the investment pays off.
Lane McNab 53:50
I think so totally. I mean, it doesn't have to be everything in your home, but a piece here or there that speaks to you that way is going to be that much better for your soul than you know buying the IKEA whatever. So right? Yeah, I just think it's, we can pick and choose as we go. And like you said collect, we can collect over time. It just quickly. It made me think of this story. I mean, for from when I was in high school up until probably I was 40. I would just buy cheap sunglasses at Target. You know, it was just like, Oh, I need a pair of sunglasses and I would just go get them and I probably lost or broke them within two months every time. And about four or five years ago, I invested and I will say invested like I'm asking people to do I invested in a pair of Morgenthau Fredrik sunglasses. And I love the sunglasses and if they're not on my head or on my eyes, they're in their case in my purse, and i will i don't i mean it's amazing. I would have thought I was not someone capable of taking care of a pair of sunglasses. But once you sort of invest That quality, it just starts to flow. And it's those sunglasses bring me probably more joy than sunglasses should. But they do because I really wanted them, I invested in them. And now I've saved probably 20 pairs of sunglasses from going into the land.
Michele 55:17
And I'm sure you look cute in the process,
Lane McNab 55:20
I look better than I would if I had on my target glasses. I'll say,
Michele 55:25
I hear you. And I think that's a great reminder. I mean, again, we might not be everything, but we can choose some things to really invest in investing in yourself. Investing in your business, you hired a consultant, you did the research before you launch the product line, you know, you researched your vendors, you sat down and took notes you said on a pad. So really taking that time to invest in the craft and invest in what we're doing.
Lane McNab 55:50
It does pay off it really does. Yeah, and much like a business running an interior design firm, the product line is an ongoing work as well. And we continue to refine and develop and get better, just like we do with the design projects, too.
Michele 56:06
I love it. Well, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing your journey and, and we have lots of lessons to take away and to think about and to see how to apply them. And now you're like I don't even know what we're going to be talking about today. I can listen back and see what wisdom you put out there for myself. Because sometimes I'll say things and I'm like, Oh, I wonder where that came from. I should think about that again. But and tell everybody where you're hanging out where they can find you and follow you
Lane McNab 56:32
Sure I'm at LaneMcnab.com. That's the firm website. There's a shop page there that will take you to the product line. The product line is called Guild by LMI. And you can find me on Instagram @ Lane McNab Interiors. And if you're interested in any of the pieces, you can get in touch with me and I can put you in touch with Sloane via Sato or Eric Waldorf or us and, and we are a trade only product line. But yeah, that's it.
Michele 57:01
Awesome. That sounds great. Well, I'll put all of that in the show notes. And again, thank you for your time.
Lane McNab 57:06
Michele, thank you so much. I enjoyed it so much.
Michele 57:09
My pleasure. Thanks again for joining us on the podcast. To move forward. We do have to manage our fear and our expectations and think strategically and critically about next steps and outcomes. This is exactly the type of thinking that I teach and share in my coaching. If you're interested in moving forward strategically in your own business, check out the masterclass I have that teaches you how to reclaim your time pay yourself more and grow your team and business intentionally. You can find that aim masterclass at my website ScarletThreadConsulting.com/aim-masterclass or check it out under the Resources tab. Profit is a Choice and it doesn't happen by accident. So be intentional. Profit is a Choice is proud to be part of the designnetwork.org where you can discover more design media reaching creative listeners.
Michele 58:07
Thanks for listening, and stay creative and business minded.