150: 6 Layers of Referral Strategy for Your Interior Design Business
Michele 00:01
Hello, my name is Michele and you're listening to Profit is a Choice. With me on the podcast today is Stacey Brown Randall. Stacey is an award winning author of generating referrals without asking, which we talked about on Episode 27 of my podcast back in 2019. She is also a host of the popular podcast roadmap to grow your business. Stacey and I met when we were both working together as co-authors of the book, The Things I Learned From a Well Designed Business, The Power Talk Friday Experts, Volume One produced and put out by LuAnn Nigara. Today Stacey and I are going to look at our referral strategy through a layering approach. There are six layers and after today, you will think of planting referral seeds for your business with intention.
Michele 00:52
Every day empowered entrepreneurs are taking ownership of their company financial health, and enjoying the rewards of reduced stress and more creativity. With my background as a financial software developer, owner of multiple businesses in the interior design, industry, educator, and speaker, I coach women in the interior design industry to increase their profits, regain ownership of their bottom line and to have fun again in their business. Welcome to Profit is a Choice. Hey, Stacey, welcome back to the podcast.
Stacey Brown Randall 01:27
Thank you so much for having me. It's so fun to hang out with you today.
Michele 01:31
I'm excited. I know you and I we talk on a regular basis. And I think we were both shocked when we did the calculation to see how long it had been since you're on the podcast. But you were here back two years ago, we're looking at almost two and a half by the time this airs. And that is Episode 27 Referrals Without Asking for a Full Pipeline. Can you believe it's been two and a half years?
Stacey Brown Randall 01:56
I can't I mean, when you said that. I was like, no, it hasn't been that long. I mean, like, Michele, why are you holding out on me?
Michele 02:05
Because I thought it we just talked. And then I was like, wait a minute, we haven't talked since then. And you and I both were co-authors in LuAnn's second book, but the first one from the Friday Talk Expert series. And we met through that experience back at the beginning of 2019. And I think for some reasons they see, it's almost like 2020 didn't happen. So I still sometimes in my brain think of 2019 is last year. I don't think I'm alone in that. I think I've heard other people make that comment as well. So I think that's kind of where it came from. Oh, yeah, that was last year. No, that was two years ago.
Stacey Brown Randall 02:43
I also think as we get older, we just don't remember as well.
Michele 02:46
Don't talk about older I'd like to talk about it in a different way.
Stacey Brown Randall 02:52
I'm totally kidding. It's been it's been crazy. That's been that limit. I think about the very first time I met you was at high point at the market when we were there speaking as part of Luhansk a panel of experts. And I think that was actually the fall of 2018. What is far more high point like November, October or something. Yeah. And it was like that's the first time we met and then it's we've just done so much together. And so many things that haven't been said. It just feels like maybe it's been longer or shorter just because of that part of our life.
Michele 03:20
So but yeah, okay, we'll go with that explanation that I like that.
Stacey Brown Randall 03:23
Does that make you you feel better.
Michele 03:25
Better than older.
Michele 03:29
Okay, so today, we're going to build on the referral strategy as a conversation point. And we were talking about, I remember a conversation you and I had probably about almost a month ago now. We were talking about looking at things through different lenses. And you said, Yeah, well, they're like six months, I was looking at your referral strategy. I'm like, Oh, that sounds like something we need to talk about. So that's what we're going to dig into today. But before we do that, Stacey, I know that you like to really clarify terms, such as what is a referral versus word of mouth buzz, and some other things like that. So before we begin our discussion, if you could just kind of tell us the definitions that we're going to be working with in this conversation so that we're all starting from the same place.
Stacey Brown Randall 04:19
Absolutely. And I think that's such a good place to start to, because it is interesting how often I will have conversations with people and they will use terms interchangeably. Like they're the same thing. And what I have found is over time, we've really diluted the power of what a referral is, which when we dilute what we think a referral is, sometimes we don't give it as much time and attention and focus in our business as we should. And it's definitely the holy grail of how people should be focused on growing their business. That doesn't mean you don't need other ways to grow your business, of course, but you know, when a referral comes in, like when somebody refers you a new client, you know, typically they already know what you do, because they've been referred by someone they trust, which also means they're typically quicker to close and easier to close, and a lot of times less price sensitive, because they've already assigned value to you because somebody else trusts you, and transfer that trust to them. So when we think about like, why we want a referral, it's like, Okay, if somebody comes to me from someone else, that the trust has already been transferred. And they understand what I do, that doesn't mean they've completely made the decision to hire you. But understanding the type of prospect when they're referred to you and they walk in that door, is there is there just a different level in terms of their willingness to move forward and to have a conversation with you than somebody who may have just been, you know, searching on house and fell and found you and decided, like, oh, let me have a conversation with him or her. And so it's just a different level of type of prospect that walks through the door when they've been referred to you. So what I always say is then for as business owners, what we have to recognize is, well, what is the referral when they walk in the door, and they have two things, one personal connection and two need identified. And so when a referral source, which is what I call the person who refers you, when your referral source refers you a potential new client, typically, what we want them to do is to make the connection to that prospect to that potential new client, we want them to make the connection from the referral source to you to the prospect because that's where the trust transfer continues. I would say like 90 something percent of the time, this is going to happen over email. But it could happen in a group text thread. It could also happen one day, when we get back to being in person, it could also happen when you're at an event and like someone's like, Oh, my gosh, you got to meet my designer, here is a new client for you like it could happen in that scenario, as well. But I think it's important for people to recognize there's always a personal connection, you're always going to be connected to the prospect by the referral source. And the second thing is the prospect. They know they're a prospect. They are environment, tality mode, they've identified they have a problem or something they want to solve, or something they want to do. And they're looking for someone to tell them direction in which to go, right. So they're looking to their friend who is your referral source, and they're like, I need to renovate my kitchen, we're building a new house, and I want the right design behind it. Like they're looking for the right person to say, Hey, this is who you need to hire, because they know they have a need, which means they don't really show up necessarily as kind of tire kickers, because they're like, no, this is why I'm willing to be connected with Michele, because I need what she does. And I trust Stacey, to tell me that Michele can can do this job, right? What it's how you think about these relationships. So it's always you're going to be personally connected to the prospect by the referral source. And the prospects going to know in this scenario, they are the prospect, they're the buyer, they're the ones making a decision. And that's why they're willing to be connected to you, when those two pieces are there. And that person shows up either in your inbox or they show up in your group text thread, however, it happens, you know, you get to respond differently to that client, that potential client, because they're showing up as a referral, not as someone coming to you cold. And it's just important to recognize that from like filling our pipelines perspective, and then the sales process, we would put a referred prospect through like all those things are really important to recognize how you want to respond when you receive a referral. And then the other thing I would say is, I also want you to know when it's so close to being a referral, but it's not. And so you use the term that I use a lot as well, word of mouth buds, like a lot of people will be like, Oh, my gosh, I got a referral the other day. And then they'll tell me, I'm like, actually, you did not you got word of mouth buds, which means someone was talking about you, there was a need identified and somebody out there who need you, but you don't know who that person is because you were never connected to them by the referral source. So when you recognize what's missing, when something's so close to being a referral, and you recognize Wait, it doesn't have two parts of the definition, then you know how to take action. And that's really important, too.
Michele 08:51
I know I before I even met you, one of the ways that I've always handled referrals, is that same way I usually do. Hey, I'm sending an email introduction. Hey, Michele, meet Stacey. Stacey, meet Michele. Stacey, let me tell you a little bit about Michele, what she needs. Michele, this is what's so great about Stacey and why you need her and, you know, I hope you do can connect and move forward with conversation. So I do a lot of those always have. And I used to always get frustrated when people would say, oh, I'll give so and so your name. And I'm like, well, why don't you just connect us? Then I can reach back out. Like if you just give them my name I can do nothing about it on this side. I mean, I can't call somebody and go, hey, I've heard that your finances are a mess and that your business really needs some help. And I think I'm here to help. I can't do that. You know, or I hear that your business is growing and is doing so awesome. I think you could we need to talk. I mean that is just icky, right. That's gross. But if somebody were to say, you know, hey Michele, meet this person, you know they're having some challenges and want to talk to you. Or hey, Michele this person, their business is growing and exploding and they really want to talk to you, then I can just reach in and say, Hey, great, tell me a little bit about it. And we can just organically and easily continue that conversation. But I would never just pick up the phone and call somebody and say, yeah, I heard you're in trouble, or I heard that you're killing it. Let's talk. And so it without that personal connection, it does put us in a very awkward position, like we really, without being creepy can't follow up?
Stacey Brown Randall 10:28
It's so true. And I think it's important for people to recognize, if we're looking for a way to grow our business, there's lots of ways to do it, right? There's lots of prospecting and marketing and tactics and tools and things that you can do. But the truth is from a referral perspective, right, it takes away when someone is referred to you there is none of the ugliness right, that exists, and there's none of the uncomfortableness it's like, Hey, I know I have a problem. And now I want to talk to you, Michele, helped me solve it. And that is so valuable in terms of a client showing up because, you know, it's like, the person shows up, shows up and says, Hey, Michele, I know my finances are a mess, but take my money, even though I don't have that much, right, because I need to fix this or like you're taking my money, Michele, right, and solve all my issues. And I've been told you can solve it. So help me absolutely, it's the best way to even engage in a conversation with a prospect. I mean, I think about it in my business, right? When somebody comes through, and I have some a couple of main ways that people are going to find my business, obviously referrals is going to be a big way that people find my business. And I find the conversations I have with people who were referred to me to talk about getting themselves more referrals and doing it without asking, when we have that conversation. And they've been referred to me, we have a better conversation about their business and where it stands, because they already Trust me. And that is such a valuable place for me to be in for me to decide, can I even help you? Or do I actually need to direct you somewhere else, versus somebody which you know, we'll have another way somebody may stumble across my book on Amazon and read it and then decide to reach out, which is great, too, but they're not coming in already trusting me necessarily because they don't have someone else vouching for me. So it's just a different way that we kind of pay attention to who our prospects are and what their sources are perfect.
Michele 12:07
Okay, so when we are going to look at a referral strategy through this layering lens, we're talking about a referral as we've defined it, which means there's a personal connection and a need has been identified.
Stacey Brown Randall 12:22
Yes, correct. Okay.
Michele 12:24
All right. So now that we know what the referral is for our conversation, and we're thinking about the layering of it, and I love layering, just because let's be honest, even with math, we, we have to layer it, you know, we don't start first grade and they go, Okay, here's quantum physics or something, maybe we're starting with counting, which then leads to addition and subtraction. You know what I mean? There's always a layering of concepts. And so when we think about the same thing with referrals, tell us where do we start? How do we get started with this?
Stacey Brown Randall 12:54
So it's such a good question, because I think it's important for people to recognize, you know, people talk about referrals, like they just fit in one silo, like, Oh, yeah, you just got to get referrals. Oh, my gosh, there's so much more to it. And if we're not careful, we can overwhelm ourselves with what we could be doing, versus where we probably need to start and then layer on the other strategies. If and this is a big if we need them, some people don't and so don't do work you don't need to do. So the way that I always talk about the referral strategy is first I want people to recognize there are things that you do from a business development or a sales perspective that you do that are prospecting in nature. And then there are activities and strategies and things that you do to bring in more clients that are marketing, right. So you may decide that your website is marketing, right? And you you joining a chamber of commerce or a BMI group or something like that is going to be prospecting. Whereas you have those two, like distinct strategies in your business, I want you to add a third. And that was your overall referral strategy. I don't ever want you to think about referrals from a marketing or prospecting perspective, because everything about it is different. So when we think about, okay, I have a three legged stool. I've got my prospecting that I do, I've got my marketing that I do. And then I have my referral plan that I do. When we think about that referral strategy or that referral plan, the one place we start is determining how are we going to take care of the people who refer us now. So layer number one we call the existing referral source layer. And the idea here is, I want to receive more referrals from the people who've been referring me, right from my referral sources, I want to receive more referrals. So it's about how we create a plan with the right language and the right kind of consistency. And there's like a cadence to it for how we're going to take care of people. What's the language we're going to use, where we're going to do? How are we going to impact how they feel about us so that we can direct their thoughts to how they think about us from a referral perspective, because, hey, you've been referring me, but I'll just use us as an example. So Michele, you've been referring me right? And I just want to maintain a strong connection and relationship with you, and do some special things so that you continue to refer me. Here's what happens. Everybody starts at this layer. Because even if you think to yourself, I don't have any referral sources. The truth is, most of the time when people do the data dive that I asked them to do to determine this step, most of the time, they're wrong. Now, if you are brand new in business, and you haven't even been in business two months, well, then you probably know, right, because your memories probably not gonna fill you with just a couple of months of being in business. But even a year or two in business, I tell folks, like you're probably forgetting somebody who may have referred you six months ago, just because it may not be top of mind for you. So I really always tell people dig into your business data, figure out where your clients came from. And the clients that were referred to you make sure you have names first and last for those referral sources. And whether you have three, or 33. The truth is you have existing referral sources in your business, and we need a plan that we can take care of them throughout the year. Now, this is not a daily, a weekly or even a monthly plan. But it is a plan that we're going to take care of those people who've referred us in the past so we can get more referrals. Now, some people do this. And they're like, I have three referral sources. What's Next, I'm going to need some more referral sources. But others, they're like, wow, I have 42 referral sources. And if I just got more from them, and also could change the quality a little bit, that's all I ever need. And I'm like good, then you don't actually need layer number two, most of us do. And it is a skill that most of us need to learn. But what's important about recognizing, do you have a strong layer? Number one, do you have a strong base of existing referral sources, that if you just did some things differently, you could get more and better referrals from them? That's where I want you to hang out? If not, then I want you to look at layer number two. Okay,
Michele 16:53
Okay, before we jump to layer number two, I do remember, you know, I think one of the things that drew the two of us together, outside of being Southern was the idea that we each were looking at numbers and metrics for different things, I was very much and am very much into the financial numbers and metrics and, and return on those investments. You also were into those same types of numbers on their referral marketing piece. And I remember being challenged, I think you and I even talked about it at Lewin Live back in early 2019, two years ago, just gonna keep throwing that in, because it'll make me feel better that I've been doing this for that long. But I remember thinking you talked about there having a spreadsheet or having some reporting system in your CRM, something where you could tell where the referrals came from. And what is so interesting to me is, in my mind, like I could have told you where my top referrals came from, right, I knew who was sending me the most people, but I couldn't quantify it. So I did not have the empirical data to stand behind it. Because I hadn't captured that. And that's one of the things I've done over the last couple of years is I have just a really great spreadsheet, and I have a CRM, I use Infusionsoft. And there's a lot of layers to it. But this is fast and quick and dirty and easy for me. And I have those on my team, you know, I have a whole operating procedure set up so that when somebody books a call with me, we go up and we update my spreadsheet that tells me who they are, what their contact information is when they reached out what the referral source was, because I asked directly ask where they heard about me. And then I asked if they were directly referred by another person. Because sometimes they're not coming in necessarily as the referrals in the way that you and I identify them at the beginning. But they are coming in telling me, this person said I had to reach you. And because I require everybody to go through this process. To stay consistent. I can see it on there. And I think there were a couple that shocked me, but that I saw their name more than once. And I don't know that I would have recognized it if I had not kept the data to show me. And so I want to thank you for being just honest with us there and going you need to have something to track this, don't just let it be a gut feeling, have some empirical data because it's made a difference for me to be able to see this. So now I know where I need to spend more time and attention and who my best referral sources are, as far as those that are, you know, really sick because that will say on here, XYZ person told me I had to call you or said that I needed to call you and again, I know it's not exactly as we said it, but it's still that same idea of keeping up with the data for who's connecting you.
Stacey Brown Randall 19:51
Right? Absolutely. And here's what that is though, right? It truly is a referral. It just started out as word of mouth buzz that flipped itself into a referral because the person prospect did follow up. And that's how you got that information on your spreadsheet. Yeah, what I love the person who's telling them you got to call Michele, to then send an email to, of course, but as long as they're making their way to you, then that's good, too, right?
Michele 20:12
I mean, from that perspective, and you're right, sometimes they do. But you know, even if they were to connect this in email, I'm going to immediately send them back through this process. I mean, it's just the process that I'm going to send it through, right. But you're right, that it word of mouth buzz can flip into a direct referral.
Stacey Brown Randall 20:28
Yes. And that's, and it's important that, like, you have a system to capture it. So it doesn't like fall through the cracks. But you're right about the ability to go back and not go off your gut. Like there's so many times I'm telling folks go with your gut, this is not one of those times, this is one of the times I'm like, actually, your guts probably going to lie to you. And so is your memory. So I really need you to go pull out the data. And I need you to look back through it, like where do your people come from, and you know, most people who go through this process, whereas and you know, I've said this before, it's not a sexy step, I mean, it's get into the data, it's trying to remember if you don't have great records of where people came from, and maybe looking back through your calendar invites or your email threads, and like searching back for sent emails you've sent to this person back in the day when they first came on board, or maybe even asking them where they heard about you, or how they first came to know you like nothing about that process can be all that sexy and fun. But I believe and my folks who go through this process, and it's the same thing you experienced when you did it, it's empowering. It is empowering to know I can make different decisions in my business, not just from knowing who's referring me. But what if I'm spending 1000s of dollars on X, Y, Z Legion source, and not one person says they're coming from that. But over here, I'm doing something and all these people are coming over here and I'm barely putting any energy behind it like that is eye opening to understanding what your business is like trying to tell you.
Michele 21:51
Well, and again, because of the way that I've been doing my now they're even putting in. I've heard you at XYZ conference for the last three years. So now I'm going okay, so that means that it's worth it for me to go speak at that conference. Because I'm going to get potential clients from it. You know what I mean? My people are there. So it's been great. And I just want to tell you, thank you for mentioning it when you were on stage and talking about your chapter in the book that you've written, as well as the one that you wrote in the shared book that we did, because it made me come back and go, you know what, that's not a place where my process is as tight as I want it. And I need to tighten that up, I want to know, so thank you for that. Alright, so existing referral source layer is number one. So what is number two.
Stacey Brown Randall 22:39
So layer number two is what we call the potential referral source layer. So this is the goal of this layer is to take clients and contacts and turn them into referral sources. This is sometimes what I tell folks is like, it's that wish list. So it's like, oh, my gosh, this person so well connected, I wish they would refer me or this client says amazing things about me or to me about the work that I did for them. I just wish they would send more people to me just like them. They're my dream client. Like, it's that idea of you thinking about who are the clients are the contacts, I call them centers of influence. So see allies, but who are the clients and the contacts in your network that you wish were referring you? Here's the thing, you may wish that this to be 100 people, and that's fine. The reality is how you start turning those clients and contacts into referral sources means we're going to identify that big old list, and maybe it's 10, maybe it's 100, it doesn't matter. But then we're gonna go through a step by step process with a small number of them to start the process of turning them into referral sources. Because a lot of people like they'll put in layer number one, they're like, Okay, great, I've got 15 referral sources. It's amazing. I've got this plan, Stacey taught me, I'm going to take care of the people with this touchpoint plan we just put into place, it's like six times a year, eight times a year, whatever their number is, this is how I'm gonna take care of the people who've referred me. And they have language around that and they know what they're doing. And they know the cadence in which they're doing it. And then they say, Well, I'm just gonna take this layer one, and I'm just gonna go do it for people. And layer number two, the people I wish were referring me. And I'm always like, timeout, timeout, timeout, that's not how it works. Because there is already a showing of action and habit in someone who refers you. And so you can move quicker and faster and taking care of them and deepening the relationship with them and using what we call referral seed language with them, where it actually starts impacting how they think about you, which is how we end up ultimately getting more referrals from them, because they've already referred you, somebody who's never referred you before. We just got to back it up a little bit. And we've got to think about this from the perspective of, Hey, we actually do need to go through the know like and trust factor, right. And we got to think through that continuum of how do we get to this person to a place to where they would be comfortable putting their reputation on the line by referring someone to you. Now for clients that love you. You can move a little bit faster, but still a client who loves you but yet has never referred you isn't thinking about it in that way. So there's still a process we we work through and we go through. And it takes a little bit longer to actually identify people who we would love to refer us who are actually capable of referring us, which is another layer to the identification, and then figuring out, okay, now how am I going to engage with them? And there's a process that I teach, but how am I going to engage with them? What's it going to look like? And what how am I going to nurture this relationship? Until and what am I going to say, right, until they give me that first referral, because we know when that client that you want to refer you gives you that first referral as you're following layer number two, well, we know where they go, they pop on over to layer number one, because now they've referred us, and they're part of our existing referral sources. And so they can come out of layer one, and go exactly where we want them to go to Layer number, they can come out of layer number two, and go where we want them to go, which is layer number one. And that's really important of a process for people to understand. These may be layers, but they are interconnected in some ways.
Michele 25:56
And then once we have enough at layer number one, like you said earlier, we can skip layer number two, I think it's also important, at least in my experience, Stacey, when I was identifying some people in that second layer, to really think about, who were the people that I bless, say that they were clients, right? Who are people that I have helped, that I would want to help somebody who was just like them with the same problem, because that's easy for them to speak into. Right? It's so easy. And so I think one aspect of that, that I just want to kind of draw a line under and maybe put a little virtual highlight on, is we don't want to do this with just any of our clients, we want to do those, do this with our clients or with those people where we want to repeat it. And we know that the leads, and the referrals are quality, and that they fit our ideal client.
Stacey Brown Randall 26:52
Yes. And that's really important. And but here's what I always tell folks is you need to have an like, just like you said, you need to have an understanding of who you think can give you the right referrals that you're looking for. But I also want you to understand, you probably are going to make some mistakes, I always tell folks, we're going to kiss a lot of frogs, before we get to our princes and princesses before we find the people who are actually not just like, not just built to refer us but then actually willing to execute on it as well. And it's never going to be 100% of your clients. I tell folks, Let's aim for the 20 to 30% that we would love to have or for us and then we can grow from there. But recognizing even that amazing client that loves you so much may never refer you but this other client you never saw coming does, right. And it'll surprise you as to what they can refer you but knowing what you're looking for, obviously going into this process will help you understand, well, if I know what I'm looking for in terms of ideal client, who do I believe, right for my clients and contacts can kind of provide that type of ideal client, but just recognize your own kissing frogs before we get to that Prince, and that princess of who that can actually start referring us because it is a process and we've just got to work through it.
Michele 28:01
Okay. So after that, then we we have, you know, we're taking care of those that we're serving that are already referring to us, we're now looking to identify some new people that could become referral sources for us. And we are, you know, trying to turn them into that. Looking at people that have centers of influence, we're nurturing that relationship with the hope of moving them into that first layer. What then is the third layer?
Stacey Brown Randall 28:29
Okay, so this is where we kind of start separating things out, and we look at front half and back half of the six layers. So what you do in layer number one, and layer number two for your existing referral sources and the potential referral sources. I always tell folks, they're like their own bucket. Because these are the humans that you can very well identify where you can get more referrals from. And that's ultimately what we're looking at getting more from existing referral sources, taking a potential referral source, getting that first one and then getting more from them. Right. So layer one and layer two, they're actually interconnected. And I actually have like a one page PDF, the visual of this for people to understand, okay, how does layer number one, and layer number two Connect, because they are connected. Then from those two layers, basically, think about it. Like if you've got two boxes, and they're interconnected, then from those, you got these three lines coming out of it, that kind of directs us right to the other four layers, because it's actually not so much about developing a plan and a process and what it's going to look like to take care of people. Now we're going to move into the other four layers, and it's going to be more tactical things we can do as we're trying to get people to consider referring us. So the other four layers are going to be it's going to be what do we do in networking situations? What do we do a new client situations? And what do we do we have a referred prospect and then what do we do we have a non referred prospect and then it's more so about the strategies and the skills you have To know how to plant referral seeds, so that in those scenarios, you're starting early in the process to see if any of those seeds would actually bear fruit and eventually have that person, whether it's at a networking event, or referred or non referred prospect or new client start referring you as well. Does that make sense?
Michele 30:19
It does. So how would you title that third one? Because that was a lot.
Stacey Brown Randall 30:23
Yeah. Actually, I have broken it down. I've broken layer numbers, I actually just call it layer 3, 4, 5 and 6, and they're all much more language tactical.
Michele 30:32
Okay, got it. I got it.
Stacey Brown Randall 30:34
Yeah. And so, and I really feel like what layer three through six, which is all that language tactical pieces of what we want to do in different scenarios, it's still always supporting layer one and layer one and layer two, like, it's always going back to the same thing, which is more referrals. And referrals only come from people, right? They come from humans. So we always need to be cultivating that relationship with our existing referral sources, or potential referral sources. And so really layers 3, 4, 5, 6, like when we think about them, they're kind of funneling people into that potential referral source layer so that we can get them over to the existing referral source layer.
Michele 31:11
Alright, so I'm just going to tell you, my head is spinning on this one. So when you're saying 3, 4, 5, and 6, are you talking specifically about from a networking perspective, more like I think you mentioned, like one and two would be more strict strategy. And three, four, or five and six are more tactical, is that what I heard you say?
Stacey Brown Randall 31:33
Let's go one step further with how we define strategy and tactical. So layers one into our strategy based on people we've identified, whether they are referring us or we want them to, it's a strategy, it's a plan, we have people that we know, like, for the people that we are already referring us, and we want more or the people that we wish or referring us, right.
Michele 31:55
Because we either work with them or have a relationship with them or something. So it's people identified and known.
Stacey Brown Randall 32:00
Right. And so it's, it's that strategy of what we do with the humans, right of how I would like to revise the strategy we do with the humans, right. And that's one into, versus actually what I refer to when you think about tactical, it's the language tactical piece for layers, 345, and six, and there are four times for them. I mean, I think you can make the argument there more than this, but I like to buck it into these four times, what I want you to have some tactics around the language, you speak to plant referral seeds in four different scenarios. So one of those will be networking. One of those will be new clients and your client experience. Another one will be prospects that are referred to you. And the last one will be prospects that are not referred to you. There are language tactics in each of those four scenarios, that you can plant referral seeds to see if we can like drum up an interest rate for those folks to eventually down the line or for us, which pushes them into layer number two, and eventually over to layer number one, okay?
Michele 33:04
So I'm going to tell you in my brain, how this breaks out, and tell me if I am understanding it correctly, and the way that like, if I'm a note taker, right, which I am. So layer number one in and I think that you said something that, that made it connect with me. And that is the whole goal here is about how to get people into layer one. Ultimately, the whole goal, the goal is to get people to be a referral source. And I think that's what I can't forget, right? Because otherwise, it's almost like your brain wants to take you down solving some other problem. And I mean, at least for me, so if we're looking at it, and we're saying, what is the problem I want to solve? Or what is the outcome that I want? My outcome is that I want more people, more quality people to be a referral source. Right. So number one, if I understand correctly, is known referral sources, they are actually actively referring us to people that we enjoy working with or have an opportunity to work with or whatever, and we're going to take care of them. Number two is potential resource layer. So this is people that we know, like you said, they're known and identified, but they're not currently referring us. So we're going to be doing the work to build relationship to plant those seeds of referral to give them information to help them become a referral partner. And when they become that referral partner or referral source, we move them into number one. So there could be a time where number one, if you will, is loaded up and number two is empty. There could be a time where we have people there in number one, and some that are in number two, because we're still kind of working out that relationship and giving them the the ability to refer us right?
Stacey Brown Randall 34:52
Yes. Okay.
Michele 34:54
Then if we look at 3, 4, 5, and 6, we'll say that before Those together are tactical language based on where people where we are with these particular people types.
Stacey Brown Randall 35:11
Like in situations.
Michele 35:12
Yeah, situations. So let's just say number three. And from that I wrote them down in the order you said, so I'm just going to use that order. Number three would be language tactical for networking. Number four, it would be language tactical for new clients, and that client experience. Number five would be the language tactical piece for referred prospects. And number six would be the language tactical piece for non referred prospects.
Stacey Brown Randall 35:38
Perfect. Did that right. Okay, you nailed it. Okay. And I'll tell folks, if there were like, Okay, that was such a good way...
Michele 35:45
Oh, wait, with the goal of while we're networking, and while we're getting these new clients, and while we're referring working with people that have been referred to not referred not not only that we are serving them in the situation that we are meeting them in, but in addition that we are planting those seeds, because they may choose not to work with us, but they may know somebody else who could?
Stacey Brown Randall 36:11
Absolutely or they may never be in a situation to be able to work with us. But that doesn't mean right. They can't be a contact not a client, but a contact that could eventually write people to us. Absolutely. And so, okay, I think it's important when people think about this, and if it makes, if it's helpful, I have a link on my website, where we literally just have this PDF, when you can just go get it and be like, Okay, let me visually see these boxes. And Stacey has been talking about these six layers. And it's just Stacey brown randall.com, forward slash layering. So really, it's just a one pager, it's pretty, it's in color, but you'll see layer one and layer two, just as you described it, they are interlocking boxes that are together. And then the other side of the PDF is like, okay, you can see distinct, these other four opportunities for those language tactics.
Michele 36:57
Okay, so when you say language tactics, are you just talking about in general, and I know you, you've got a book, and you've training and all of that, but just to understand that concept? Are you talking about just the way that we speak about things? I'll tell you, it was funny, I remember doing an educational event, oh, gosh, probably all the way back in 2009, 2010. And at the end of it, I, I just directly said, you know, it was a small gathering. So it was people that I enjoyed it was people in our industry, and I just made the comment, you know, Hey, guys, I really enjoyed serving you have enjoyed helping you if you know other people that are challenged the same way, you know, I'd love an opportunity to work with them too. And so you know, if there's a way that that if you want to introduce us, I would be happy to take care of them the way I've taken care of you. And I would look at that as a seed that I was dropping, because I wasn't forcing anything. It was just a if this worked for you tell somebody and I'll help them too. And I think sometimes we forget to love the seed idea, we forget to drop them. But when you drop a seed, you also sometimes need to go back and water it and take care of it and help it grow a little bit, right.
Stacey Brown Randall 38:12
Absolutely. And so you know, for some people, it would feel very natural like you just like it did for you to say afterwards, hey, if this was helpful for you tell somebody, other people would be like, Oh, my gosh, that's asking for a referral, I can't do that. And I do think there's a there's an important piece here where you recognize the difference between asking someone to put their their reputation on the line and send someone to you, that has the potential to send money, spend money with you, versus sharing it with people that may find it helpful. And so I do think it's important, I think those are lines that get blurred a lot in this world, in terms of when we're talking about from a referral perspective. So I think depending on whatever side you fall on, it's your comfort level with what that looks like. But you're exactly right, there are moments that are going to happen, right in your scenario is moments that happened at the end of some of training, right? Where you're able to say, hey, if this was helpful, right, there are moments are going to happen. And what I want you to be armed with is the language you're going to use and those moments to start to see if we can plant those referral seeds that something can grow. The truth is we know this, Michele, sometimes we throw some seeds out there and they land on concrete, they're going nowhere, but often to the wind, and they're going to be lost and they're not going to grow roots, they're never going to sprout, right? Other times though, we're actually going to spread those seeds on very fertile ground. And we can actually cultivate a relationship with someone that's actually going to end up referring us. And so it's the ability for you just to be ready in those scenarios. And so let's look at this from the networking perspective, right, when we're in networking mode, like there's always a lot of things happening in a new networking, more virtual nowadays, and it actually ever was in the past, but there's going to be back to a balance of this virtual versus in person networking. And so for me, what I just want to know is like when you're at a networking event, I don't need you to say this. Every single time if you don't want to, but if you're in a networking event, and you're having a conversation with somebody, and let me give you the perfect kind of example, takeaway use this the next time you're having a conversation with somebody, whether it's at a networking event or at the neighborhood barbecue doesn't matter to me, and somebody says, Hey, Michele, How's business? There's a moment in that networking with that question is almost always asked, or How's it going? How's business? Instead of saying it's great, or it's so busy? Or Oh, my gosh, I'm so slammed? Or maybe sometimes you're being totally honest, well, it could be better, right? Instead of those types of throwaway responses, I just want you to have the strategy, the skill, the language that says, Oh, wait, in this scenario, I'm just going to say, actually, things are really good. We brought in over 20 new students, right? If I was talking about it from my world, hey, this is really good. We brought in over 20 new students into my growth by referrals program last month, and about 70% of them all came by referrals. Like, it's the ability for you to talk about this from a networking perspective about referrals. In that moment, I'm not forcing the conversation. I'm hoping there's an interest there. I'm hoping they're saying, Wow, that's amazing. Like, when you say referrals, what do you mean, or who's referring you and then I can start having the conversation with them specific to their situation, where they're not the person I'm talking to is a future referral source. Or not? Right? I don't quite know that yet. Unless I know enough about them having a conversation, I can kind of determine it, right. But then I can also guide the conversation. I can also just say, Oh, my gosh, this is awesome. 50% of my clients last month came in from referrals, it's Bonanzas, how many referrals we get from our existing clients, plant the seed and then say, how's business for you, but don't necessarily try to engage in a conversation. It's just the skill set, I want people to have to be thinking about these opportunities. And there's not like in the networking box, there's not like 50 different opportunities, there's a couple and the new client box, there's not like 1000 different opportunities to plan a referral see with your new clients or that client experience. There's a handful, right? So it's just those tactical pieces that I know will make your life easier as you're trying to move people into box number two, so that we can get them to box number one or player number one.
Michele 42:02
So what I what I love about this is I'm all about I did a whole podcast, I'll have to look up which one it is. But it's called Begin with the End in Mind. And what that means is what do we want the end result of our conversation to be in this particular case? Well, at the end of it, I want them to, you know, if we are looking for it to be a referral or prospect, whatever that we want them to become, and that referral source in that layer one. If that is the end goal, then that just means like you said that we're peppering our language, we're sprinkling in the, you know, the seeds or these opportunities to think about referrals. You know, a lot of times I know that I I've thought about somebody that I've worked with, that I loved working with and I would have given their name out. But I didn't think about how to do it. And the more that they make it easy for me to think about it, the more often I would do it. Right now, if somebody came up to me and said, Michele, I'm struggling with all of my referral pieces. I would without blinking though, oh, my gosh, well, you need to know, Stacey, let me introduce you. But you know, when on the day to day when you're going through it, I'm not thinking oh, let me go refer Stacey, let me go first. As you know, more than any more than anybody's thinking the same about me, we're just we're busy, right. But I know that when I've worked with people that made it easy for me to refer them meaning that gave them and this this may not be what you're talking about. But even just giving me a couple of extra business cards. Just you know, back in the day when we use business cards, giving me something and I'm not talking about something for my own personal gain, I'm talking about a tool or a handout something or just made it easy, like you know, I would love to work with them. Here's where you suggest even telling me where to tell them to go and how to contact them just because some people want tech, someone email, some want to go through a form on their website, just giving me information so that I know, the proper way to connect. That changes my referrals. Because otherwise I'm like, Well, I'd like to refer you but I know they don't like to answer the phone and they will get really irritated with text. I'm not really sure how to you know what I'm saying? It's like, tell me how to help you. And I think that's one of those seeds that we plant.
Stacey Brown Randall 44:26
You know, it's really interesting. I would actually say your sense of make it easy on me to be able to refer you put you actually in the minority. And I think that is because you..
Michele 44:37
Well I am a unicorn you didn't know that.
Stacey Brown Randall 44:39
That's what I mean like and this makes you even more of a unicorn. Right?
Michele 44:42
Right. I'll tell my husband he'll be so excited.
Stacey Brown Randall 44:46
Like I just keep making Michele more unicorns. But I think it's important to recognize why you think like that, because people do think like that out there in the world. The unfortunate reality is, they're in the minority. Most people are just like, whatever easiest for me to refer you. That's what I'm going to do. And so a lot of times, it's like, if someone ever says, How can I refer you? I'm like, just is email easy? Yeah, then just email me and copy the other person on the email, right? Like, I know how to use that language in those moments to make it really easy for me to be able to follow up with people. But lots of people, you know, when you think about, like, making it easy on them to refer, it's usually what is easiest for them. The fact that you think about it from the other person's perspective, it that's what puts you in the minority, because you're right, nobody wakes up and says, How can I help Stacey grow her business today? Me nobody wakes up and says that about me. They don't say that about you. They don't say that about anybody. We wake up thinking, how am I going to grow my business today? And so it's that it's that mentality of just kind of how we think about things, which is obviously why I think that puts you in the minority. But I do think business owners who are cognizant of referrals in their world are more cognizant of, of doing the referrals for others, as well. Exactly. So I think that's what makes it a little bit different.
Michele 45:57
Yeah, I would agree with that. I mean, I know how important referrals are for me for my business, I do coaching for, you know, large firms that that have, you know, million, 5 million running through their company. And so they want to be super careful. And many of them have worked with a lot of other people, or, you know, they just want to make certain that they're at a pivot point, or they're at a growth point and acceleration point. And time is of the essence. And they want to make sure they're getting the right person at the right place at the right time. And so when they've got that transfer of trust from somebody else, it makes that process quicker. And we can even quickly decide, are we meant to work together? Or are we not? We're not starting from cold hard ground, right? And so it is, it really is a big deal. And but because I know what that's like to have a conversation with somebody who's already been warmed up to that conversation, I want to help warm up other people, you know, and I want to say this to Stacey, just because you and I have done this for each other as well. It's not even always about getting a client, it's about referring people that can help you in some way. I know I was looking for a resource recently, and reached out and just asked you, hey, do you happen to have a resource in this particular area? And you're like, you know, I really think I do, let me get an I told you kind of here's what I'm looking for, you're like, let me go find out, you know, from her, if that's really what she does, and then if so I'll connect you. And then you did and you connected us. And now you know, we're planning a few things together. But it was never about a client, it was about a need that I had to support my clients, right. And you were able to do that for me. So I think we don't need to lose sight of referral, as always meaning direct income from a client, it really could just be somebody else that could offer something that could enrich or enhance our business or life in some way.
Stacey Brown Randall 48:00
It's so true. And you know, it's interesting that I'm working with the clients that are going through my growth by referrals program, they'll have that same question, they'll be like, hey, this person hasn't referred me a paying client per se. But they've referred me people who have become my referral sources, just by connecting me in from a greater networking perspective, I'm like, that's just as valuable. We're not, we can't always assign the dollar amounts as easy as trackable, maybe sometimes as we want to, but somebody's connecting you with somebody who will become a huge referral source for you. Like when I look at it, when I'm working with my VIPs. And we're looking at the web, we call it like the spider's web of the referrals, and where they kind of go and come from, and hey, this person referred me to this person. Now this person's referred me to six people, and had those six people, that person referred me to four more people like it all. And it all goes back to that initial person who actually never referred to a paying client, but referred you people who could. And so I tell my students track it all, like track when you get referred a client, of course, and then obviously, I want you to track the outcome of that as well. I want you to take care of your referral source, regardless of who they refer you becomes a client or not, but I do want you to track the outcome. I also want you to track when are they referring you right to somebody else, in terms of that person can then refer you, right? And so from that perspective, like if using that scenario of like, you reached out to me and said, Hey, do you know somebody? And I was like, Yeah, I do, right? from her perspective. We'll call her Sarah. So it doesn't get confusing with the names. But like from her perspective, Sarah would be thinking about it as Stacey referred me to Michele. Right. And so that is the way that she would be looking at it from that perspective, but I didn't refer to Michele to do business, but the potential to be a resource for Michele and who knows where that will take the relationship. Exactly. You know, so
Michele 49:43
As we wrap this up, I think there's one other little piece that I know we talked about before but I do think that it bears repeating in this is when somebody asked you, you know Michele or Stacey or fill in the blank with your name, who would be a good referral for you, I think we need to make sure that we can easily articulate who our ideal client is, or the ideal business that or need that we have. And so the more nebulous we are, the more you know, kind of shot in the dark it's going to be but the more clear that we can be on, this is a perfect type of client, or this is the type of needs that my clients have, or this is, you know, the need that I have to fill in my business, then I think we're going to have better referral outcomes. I know that sometimes when people will go, I need more business. Okay, well, what do you need? And they can't tell me I'm like, Well, I don't even know how to help you. And man, I know it sounds like crazy. That's true, but it's true. Again, I think that goes back to that. I'm willing to help you. But you've got to tell me how. So we need to take the time to sit and think about what do we want? Who do we want to work with? What needs do we have? Or what needs could we offer somebody else? if somebody were saying how do I refer you? Well, here's what I do. Right? It kind of looking at ourselves on both sides of the referral. And I am just kind of amazed sometimes that we don't give that the thought and the attention that it really needs to be served to it. Because then sometimes we're complaining it, look who these people are sending me yet we've never sat down and told them who to send us.
Stacey Brown Randall 51:25
You know, it is really fascinating. And I always tell folks, like I don't ever want you the way I'm going to teach you is I'm never going to teach you to go up to somebody and be like, hey, I need business. So send me some people, right I guy you're never going to teach you that. But if someone like Michele is having a conversation with you, and says, How can I help you? Oh, my gosh, I want you to be ready to take advantage of that opportunity. So if I say to you, how can I help you? Or Michele, you say to somebody, how can I help you? You're absolutely right. I want them to be able to say, Oh my gosh, Really? Thank you so much. I mean, I first want them like do I mean sometimes that yes, yeah. Sometimes people say let me know how I can help you as I like walking out the door because they don't mean it. And I want you to be able to discern when somebody means it or when they're just saying it to be polite, and pleasantries. But if someone says, Hey, Stacey, like, tell me how can I help you?
Michele 52:12
Yeah, what do you really need? Stacey? Tell me, right? That kind of right?
Stacey Brown Randall 52:16
I want to be ready to answer it. And you need to be ready to answer like, we all need to be ready to answer it. So it's important in and let's be honest, how we answer that question also has a lot to do with how well we know you. Right? So I mean, the truth is, there are a few target industries, where my program, like work wonders, and I focus on those industries on purpose, but having a conversation with you, I could certainly tell you that attorneys do great in my program. So if you ever know any of attorneys, right? But that's not as relevant as being like, Well, you know, who else is kicking butt in my program, interior designers, right? Like that's more relevant to you to how you would even be thinking about me down the road or keeping me right top of mind in that perspective. So I want you to be ready to answer the question when the person asks it, what I don't want you to do is force it upon them when they haven't even shown any interest, because that's how we damaged relations.
Michele 53:05
Oh, yeah. I mean, well, I don't like that either. Or something was it says, here's what I need. And this is what I need you to go get for me. But, but I do think that when the question is asked, we need to know, I mean, I'll give you just a real prime example. On the financial side. When I'm working with a new client, and I say to and say to them, you know, I might hear this, the business is growing. Okay, great. I want the business to continue to grow and scale. Okay, awesome. That's what I specialize in. Okay, so And now I ask them, so tell me, what are the lifestyle needs that the business needs to support? cricket? What kind of salary Do you need to make? cricket? And I'm like, Okay, if you if any of us were to go work in corporate, we would have an idea. So is it that you don't know? Because you haven't thought about it? Because you don't know where? what's possible. So let's say all things are possible. Now, tell me what you want. Because we can't build what nobody knows and can't recognize, right? We got to have a starting place. And so I think the same thing is true with referrals. I couldn't remember at one time somebody asking me, so Michele, what is an ideal client for you so that if I run across somebody or know somebody I can connect you? And the first time they asked me that I kind of go up then I thought, you know, I don't know that I have ever thought about how to succinctly answer that now. I certainly can. But at the time, I couldn't just like some people can't tell me what salary they want. So I get it. I've been there. I'm just saying it certainly makes it easier for somebody else to go oh my gosh, lawyers, I know lawyers, I got lawyers and my family or my neighbors, the lawyer or interior designers, I know interior designers I can send some your way of you know if I see that, that they would be a good fit for you. So it is it's being able to just articulate it when you're Like you said, Truly asked not. Again, none of this is running up and foisting this on anybody, we're not being invited over the head via referral partner. This is because somebody's asking to wanting to there's a synergy. But I think we enhance that synergy when we give them the tools to help us.
Stacey Brown Randall 55:20
Absolutely. And in some cases, it really is looking at it from the perspective that, hey, someone's actually offering, let's make sure we're ready and prepared to take advantage of their offer. In another case, it's it's a you've never offered, but I really want referrals from you. So I'm going to do what I need to do to nurture a relationship with you. And there's a language to plan so that I can get you to start thinking about me from a referral perspective. So I can get that first referral from you. And you thinking it was your idea, right? And then of course, moving you on over where I can take care of you to get more referrals from you in the future, I want you to be able to do both. I love it.
Michele 55:52
I love it. So Stacey, tell us where you're hanging out online these days. And tell us a little bit about your growth by referrals. program.
Stacey Brown Randall 56:01
So I mean, everywhere, you probably look online, just full name on them and make it as many letters as possible for you to type when, you're looking me up online with Stacey Brown Randall and Stacey has an E. But that's the website, you can find me on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, all the places as well. But you know, what I really always tell folks is that when you're thinking through your referral strategy, and what you want it to look like for you, I have so many free resources out there with my book with my podcast, I have this referral ninja quiz you can take to figure out where you're starting from, but ultimately, where I want you to be able to land and where I want you to be able to do and to know how to do it is what I teach in my growth by referrals program. And that is the ability for you to know how do I identify my referral sources? Then what do I do for my existing referral sources to take care of them, then once I have that plan, and language and peace in place, then we're going to teach you still inside the growth by referrals program, same program, we're going to then teach you another unit go through another training that's going to say, Okay, now let's identify those potentials. And let's get them right to really start referring you to and that's what the growth by referrals program is built to do. It's built to help you understand, here's your referral sources are, here's how you need to take care of them and what to say, here's who you want to refer you. Here's how you identify them. And here's what you do to get that first referral. And at the same time, we can talk about how do you follow up after referrals received? And how do you change the quality when you're not getting the quality? And what's language you use when you're talking to that referred prospect and you want them to close into a yes, client. There's all those pieces. Now I will say inside my growth by referrals program, some of those other layers one and two locked and loaded layer one and two locked in later, and the growth by referrals program. But some of the other things, we talked about layers, you know, 3, 4, 5, and 6, they are actually come through other areas and or you just don't need them until the next level training that you would need above and beyond growth by referrals, because that's where you've got to start. So some of its in there, but not all of it.
Michele 57:56
Great. Well, I will have all of that in the show notes. And so I'm just really thankful for the conversation today. You know, I learned something every single time even just that tiny little nuance, that tiny little thing that I can start to add and be like, Okay, I need to think about that more, or I need to be intentional about this piece or that wording, or whatever. So I really appreciate the conversation and going deeper into those six layers. So thank you, Stacey.
Stacey Brown Randall 58:24
No, my gosh, it's my pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me.
Michele 58:27
All right. Well, I will tell you goodbye and tell everybody to go back to and listen to if you want Episode 27 referrals without asking for a full pipeline. And Stacey, what is the name of your podcast? roadmap
Stacey Brown Randall 58:42
Roadmap to Grow your Business
Michele 58:44
Roadmap to Grow your Business. So it's really action packed. They're quick episodes. And so I would highly recommend that everybody listen to that. And again, we'll link your podcast and my podcast and the show notes so that everybody can get to it. And just thank you so much for sharing today.
Michele 58:59
Thank you. Thanks, Stacey for joining me on the podcast. You are a super smart woman and I learned something every time we talk. If you need help growing your referrals, Stacey is the one to help you. If you have referrals in place and your business is growing. Maybe it's growing so quickly, you can barely keep up, then I would love to talk to you about helping you put some strategies in place to get your arms around the business. My dream client that you listening is really someone who loves their business who wants to do business well for their clients, their team and themselves. They're looking to know what they don't know and looking to do business better at every level that you're invested in serving others. Well, if this is you, let's talk you don't have to grow your business alone. You can find out more on my website, ScarletThreadConsulting.com, make sure to sign up for a discovery call and let's get you moving forward because profit doesn't happen by accident. Profit is a Choice is proud to be part of the designnetwork.org where you can discover more design maybe reaching creative listeners. Thanks for listening and stay creative and business minded.