163: How to Leverage Leadership in Scaling Your Design Firm
Michele 00:00
Hello, my name is Michele, and you're listening to Profit is a Choice. With me on the podcast today is Jenni Egger of Jenni Egger designs. Jenni is one of my coaching clients and she has built a really wonderful business and Indiana. Jenni had a career prior to her design firm working with Estee Lauder Corporation. And on today's podcast, we're going to discuss what she learned from that company that gave her a specific insight into building and scaling her current firm. I hope you enjoy it.
Michele 00:35
Every day, empowered entrepreneurs are taking ownership of their company financial health, and enjoying the rewards of reduced stress and more creativity. With my background, as a financial software developer, owner of multiple businesses in the interior design, industry, educator and speaker, I coach women in the interior design industry to increase their profits, regain ownership of their bottom line, and to have fun again in their business. Welcome to Profit is a Choice.
Michele 01:09
Hey, Jenni, welcome to the podcast.
Jenni Egger 01:11
Thanks, Michele.
Michele 01:12
I'm excited to have you here, you have a very interesting story. And I love how the career that you had in the past has really informed the business that you've built. And so I really want to, you know, dive in and talk about some of that, and how it's led you to look at your business, I think in some ways differently than others who are coming into this as a second or third career. So just interesting and different. And I want to make sure that we talk about that. But before we get started, why don't you tell us a little bit about your journey? Like what what have you been doing before you got to starting your interior design business?
Jenni Egger 01:51
Sure. So my career actually started in college Clinique, which was a sort of up and coming rising star and the Estee Lauder brands. And I started part time while I was a sophomore in college and getting my degree in communication. I started at a little Clinique counter in southern Indiana, and throughout college moved to some larger counters, I graduated, I got married a month after I graduated from college. And then just thought that, you know, you should become an executive in a business that you were affiliated with. So I followed that path with Clinique. I became a manager and then an executive. And I moved to from where I thought I would always live to a different state and my husband was a traveling spouse. And I managed a lot of many millions of dollars in Clinique business for the Estee Lauder companies. And so they really gave me my education in business in certainly the prestige cosmetic industry, but also just sort of in life I learned so much from that experience.
Michele 03:05
Now I think is interesting. No, you and I, we coached together. And I know that you brought up over the last almost year now. Different things that you learned there, did they, they must have had like a very great management program, I think you've mentioned that they wasn't just these days, I think sometimes we just give somebody a title of manager, but even in my day, but 20 something years ago, in corporate, we went through management training classes, I mean, we didn't just get a title, we were actually taught how to manage, you know, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. I mean, we had all kinds of training, how to say things, what not to say. And it wasn't even similar to the environment that we have today where you just can't say boom without getting in trouble. But we learned nuanced ways to handle the interactions of team members, which is one of the biggest parts of leading and managing, tell us a little bit about the management training, what you learned, and how, how that kind of came to ensure.
Jenni Egger 04:11
Well, from the very beginning with even the hiring process is very structured, through the company that I was with, to the point where they fly prospective executives to New York City and you interview you know, on the 37th floor of what was the GM building then so it was setting you up for success and feeling a part of the company and belonging from that very first interview. So that was definitely a defining moment when I did that. And then from there, you're in a group with other executives that have just been hired. And it really is a year long training, if you will. And to your point and the two things that I think they did a great job at is working with outside companies for definitely the interpersonal relationship and managing of the people. We called that managing for results back then. And it was really just getting buy-in from everyone we touched to do the best we can to do better to focus on things that we can strengthen, and to identify the things that we're doing well, and keep making those better. And then sort of in a couple years into my career, they adopted a talent based program. And it was all about talent management. So really finding people that were a great fit for the job, and who would be natural at either the selling or the service, depending on the brand. And so I learned a ton about talent analysis, as well as talent assessment, we used a structured interview that was a lot, a lot like some of the different Strength Finders and things like that, but they were custom and tailored to the particular job that we were interviewing for. So I had the honor for many years of being a Master Trainer with the Estee Lauder companies. And I actually taught the whole field, how to assess talent, and put people in the best jobs for their talents and abilities and natural strengths.
Michele 06:26
That is I find that fascinating. It kind of fits in with what I coach put the right button, right. So you don't right. Yeah, I mean, we hear about it everywhere. I'm sure Estee Lauder had a much nicer way of presenting it than that. But it's it gets to the heart of what you're trying to do. We don't want to cram people into a position, we want to align the position with the talent so that people are working in their zone of genius in an area, they love doing the things that they're well suited for, and have a skill set. And then we want to step in, and kind of help with that natural ability and talent and help them grow and do even more things, right.
Jenni Egger 07:04
Yeah, we called it our formula was talent plus fit. So identifying the talent and then fitting them in the right job times investment equaled growth, and we had all sorts of statistics on a person without that natural ability, getting the same amount of investment. And it not equaling as much growth as someone who has the natural ability. And it was probably something that influenced me as a parent and throughout life was I taught this one slide. And it showed the fifth grader who got two A's, two B's and a C and went home with that report card. And the parents focused on the C. And his next report card was one A and four B's. And so the GPA didn't change one bit. But then the other kid who they focused on the A's, ended up getting four A's and a B. And that has always stuck with me. And I raised my son that way and try to approach everyone that way that we can beat our heads up against the wall to try to change something or we can just go with what we're naturally strong.
Michele 08:19
I love that. And you know, that's been I think one of the things for me, even just looking at Strengths Finder and raising children with dyslexia and doing all the things is you realize it? Why outside of school? Are we ever thinking that we need to get an A in everything we do it actually I mean, if you think about it, from just the natural progression of only having to have As, I grew up where I was expected to have As and back in my day Jenni, and A at our school system was in 95 to 100 and 94 was a B+ plus these days, you can go all the way to a 90 No, no, we did not have that. And so a 97 and up are the same 98 to 100 was an A plus A 96. And a 97. Or something like that was an A and the 95 was an A minus. And I mean it was rigid. I can remember feeling like I always had to make A. I am naturally gifted in the way that people do school like I can read it and absorb it and give it back that it's just natural for me. And so I had this push to do as well. What it also kind of ingrained in me is if I can't do it, if I can't make an A Don't do it. Don't attempt it. Don't try it. And that's not good either.
Jenni Egger 09:39
Done is better than perfect, especially our world done is better than perfect.
Michele 09:44
And it setup this idea that if I could not excel, just don't even give it a try. yet. There could be things that I could excel if I had, maybe I had a talent but it needs to be cared for and practice to be able to be built And then some things I'm just not good at. And it wasn't until I had children, and I've mentioned this on the podcast before. It wasn't until I had children and I realized I was saying to them as little little boys go out and try to go out and try it, if you know, it's okay, if you fall down, it doesn't matter. I'm giving them all of this, go, go try explore the world. And I never had really given my myself that gift of trying, then realizing, do I have a fit? Do I have a natural talent, I just unless I had done it and done it perfectly The first time I assumed I wasn't talented. That's not true, either. So I love that equation of really thinking through it, and giving people a space to try something to see if they even like it or want to do it.
Jenni Egger 10:46
When that happened to me when I did, which I know we'll get there when I got away from the corporate atmosphere, where there were certainly things that fit like a glove in that environment. I realized I had some talents and abilities that I had no idea of because I had from such a young age. Just I did what Clinique told me to do. And it fit great. I was happy, I loved my career. But I was also artistic. And I was also creative. And I also had this sort of ability to see things the way they should be. But that was never exercised in the corporate environment where everyone had to do things the same way. And you were told what it was supposed to look like you couldn't interpret how you wanted that display to look, you had to do it exactly like the schematic showed. And that was really enlightening to me in my 30s to you know, is when I became a mom and a housewife and learned so much about myself because it hadn't been exercised in those, you know, first formative years outside of college.
Michele 11:54
Now, one other thing I want to talk about in your prior career before we move on to kind of how you have pivoted into design. I it seems like I remember on one of our coaching calls, you mentioned, getting a book about the history of Estee Lauder and how it started and how that book I think they were I don't remember if they gave them to all employees, or all executives or how you got to remember there was a story. But I remember you telling me about some of the things in that book that impacted you about the start of Estee Lauder in general. But also, you mentioned to me about how and you kind of alluded to it a minute ago when they flew you in, they really built this idea of of kind of family business family. Sure. It wasn't like your Lone Ranger, like you said, often, they brought you into the fold and you felt connected, you felt a sense of purpose in your job. You weren't just another employee, you know, yeah, sometimes you have to work around and do what the schematic says. I mean, I understand that. So there were some limits. But they very much made you feel like in the fold part of the group, you you still speak of that career with a great affection. And I think that says a lot about the culture that they built. Can you talk a little bit about that? And then, if you remember when we were having the conversation about the book, and there are a couple of things in there, because that's what you really brought into this firm that you've built.
Jenni Egger 13:24
Yeah. So and Michele, I have to give you kudos because in one of our coaching calls you mentioned, you know, this opportunity to make our clients feel as though once they're in they're part of our family, the Jenni Effer designs family. And we see that over and over again with our clients. But when I think about how that affected my relationship with the Estee Lauder companies, it was that first sort of opening of the door inviting me into the corporate office, all the way until when I left my executive role. I was welcomed back as a consultant for the business. And in between, oh my gosh, it's everything. I mean, certainly gifts just like you know, many people love to give gifts to show their love for others and the Estee Lauder companies did that. treating us like we were important. You know, always our meetings were at you know, very nice hotels and meeting centers. But it made sure we were fed and felt special. When we had children. We were sent a Tiffany baby spoon and I have Charlie's, my son, with mine and my husband's baby spoon. I don't know that he would have gotten the silver spoon without the Estee Lauder companies. But that all just was really driven by the legacy of SJ herself. She really wanted. She was the first sort of cosmetic executive to come in and treat people as, beyond her, every brand was treating their sales reps and their managers and their executives, she made them feel special. And because of that they wanted to sell her brand.
Michele 15:15
I shared this in our coaching group. And I think I've mentioned it on the podcast before. And I wish I knew who to attribute it to, because I didn't come up with it originally. But when I heard it, I was like, yeah, and it says, if you take care of your staff and your team members, they will take care of your clients. And sometimes I think in business, we're so focused on taking care of our clients that we're not taking care of those that have been entrusted to us to be on our team, and to call our business home. And so I love that as they did that and set up that culture to go on so that the team members felt loved and cared for an honored and it doesn't always have to be with expensive gifts. I mean, you know, we all we're all trying to manage here. But it's that that caring, I did a podcast back I think in June or early July, and I'll link it in the show notes that talked about bringing fun back into our environments. And I know Jenni, you're a part of the elite coaching group that we have. And we've been finding over and over as we've been sharing in there. And even again, yesterday, someone shared just taking their team outside and eating together at a picnic table, bringing in a pizza on Fridays, hear in there, I know you love to entertain having them in your home, just doing little small things here. And there has really gone a long way to bring some fun back into the work environment that we're all scrambling to keep our clients happy, right along delays, and you know, everybody's got a project to do. Alright, so tell us a little bit then how you, you had recognized that you had some skills and talents in the creative field and design and all of that. How did you pivot? or How did you merge that into? Okay, now let's start Jenny agar designs. How did that happen?
Jenni Egger 17:12
Well, it all relates because one of the things that I taught in the talent assessment class was, what do people ask you to do? Naturally, when your friends and family call you for help or advice? What was that? What was that category, that's going to tell you where your natural talents and abilities lie because other people are so quick to see our natural talents than we are ourselves. And so I found myself with family and friends being the one who would come and pick colors for paint or I would pull fabrics together and mix prints and patterns and textures, room arrangement that was important to a lot of my family and friends. And then even going out and sourcing and buying one of my first jobs that I didn't get paid a penny for was my best friend, we furnished her whole house. And I mean, I'll never forget, we were on a you know, two week, hunt for swivel chairs back when you couldn't find a swivel chair for love nor money. And here, here we are. We have swivel chairs at every turn. But those were things that people asked me to do. And so I did for about two years, I didn't charge a penny for what I just said, let me let me see how this goes. Let me earn my stripes, just trying this out choosing wallpaper and then it got into finding the people to actually execute the designs for folks. And then I started doing what I would call a jabi You know, it wasn't a job because I wasn't getting paid much. It was more of a hobby that I was, you know, charging a little bit for. And I just figured a lot out during that time. I sort of paid for my education but not getting paid by my clients, if you will. So that's how it started. And for you know, eight to ten years I did everything just me.
Michele 19:02
Okay, so you start doing what you're naturally great at. people continue to ask you to do it, you're not getting paid, then you move into let's say starting to get paid a little bit what When did you realize okay, this is more than a hobby not quite a job. I think I want to make this into a career therefore I need to set up a business structure around us what was it just the timing of it? You know, Charlie gotten older and you had time or was there some event or was there just this inner working of okay, I think I need to take this and make it a bit more formal what what what was that journey like?
Jenni Egger 19:39
So in 2015 I had decided that I was doing enough kitchen design that is really my specialty. And I decided along with my partner in the cabinetry business to start branding cabinets. So that was 2015. And when you get serious about kitchens, you need some help. So I started getting some help with the other aspects of the business, whether, you know, the decorating piece of it, the project management piece of it, just choosing the appliances and plumbing fixtures etc. But it wasn't serious at that point, it was just sort of this next layer of getting some help, so that I could focus on the custom cabinetry, which I really saw as the foundation of my business. And then, you know, as they say, Necessity is the mother of invention, something did happen, it was a clear line in the sand. So I found out in 2017, that I'm braca, two positive. My mother was a breast cancer is a breast cancer survivor, and she had breast cancer when she was 48. And so I was 47. And I was tested, found out I was positive, and I knew exactly what I was going to do. So in 2017, and part of 2018, I had four surgeries. And those took me from about a 90% chance. So it wasn't, if it was just when I was gonna get either breast cancer or ovarian cancer, to pretty much a 2%, you know, barely any chance of getting those cancers. And so, four surgeries and 15 months is what I endured, and I'm extremely healthy. So I bounced back. But that that took a lot. And I realized not only didn't I want to do it all myself, I really couldn't. And I owed it to everyone that dependent on my business for either their project getting finished or their job, that I owe them a team behind me. And so that's really what happened.
Michele 21:47
Okay, so then when you decided to have a team, did you already have some people in place that you had kind of been working with on the side and you formalized it? or What did you do?
Jenni Egger 21:57
I didn't formalize it, it was sort of a I mean, it was good timing, my, my assistant got married and moved away. And I had a couple other part time people that I think once I knew we were headed in this direction. So one of the first positions that I brought on, was my business manager, because I knew that if we were going to do more volume, I needed someone to manage all of that the bills, paying the bills, getting bills paid, as well as getting the consultants paid, getting those people that were representing Jenny agar designs. So Christina was my first, you know, sort of big contractor that I brought on, and she's been with me then for over three years, and she makes sure that everyone gets paid, which I find is the most important thing if you want people to come to work on Monday. And so she was the first person. And then I actually looked to Indeed, I posted very specific jobs and did a slew of interviews. So all of that talent analysis. You know, I remembered all that, and it came back and several of the people that I brought on that year are still with me, you know, they were they were really great hires for the positions that I have, in terms of the different roles that are in the company.
Michele 23:21
When did you officially open Jenni Egger Designs as a business versus a jobi?
Jenni Egger 23:29
Yeah, so I would say, the LLC was in 2012. Then I started doing business formally, as a sole proprietor in 2008.
Michele 23:40
Okay, so when you started, that's when you started charging and making sure that you were going to have many command because this is managers and consultants and other people showing up on your team don't do that out of the goodness of their hearts, in most cases, spouse who's trying to just get you going, but normally, that doesn't happen. Okay, so you've built the company, when you first created it, did you have a plan for this is what it's going to look like? Or was it a bit more organic, and how it came together for you.
Jenni Egger 24:14
Certainly the plan didn't include kind of where we are today in terms of the volume and the bigness and the robustness of it. But the plan did include, in my mind, a very specialized business. So I just see a lot of efficiencies and people doing what they love, if they have, you know, sort of areas of the business that they love to focus on that. And I really saw it as I compare the visual to sort of a relay race that we pass the baton to the next person, we sort of had that exchange, and then the next person runs with the next leg. And that is how we work through our jobs. So my role has always been and will probably continue to be the person who secures the job. So people call me first I meet with the client, we do a proposal and create that relationship with Jenni Egger Designs the brand as a whole. And then they decide to hire us. And once they hire us, then I decide who that next leg is going to be. Sometimes it is the technical team, because we want to get the plans in place. Sometimes if it's a decorating job, it goes to the design consultant, I have a window treatment manager, certainly when we get them on boarded, that's a lot of the financial team and the paperwork team, if you will. And then I have an expediter, who orders absolutely everything that runs through our job. So I don't have eight different people placing orders and, you know, forgetting something, and that could just be a disaster.
Michele 26:01
Yeah, and that's a really great position, especially for a firm your size, because they're able to see what else is going through one particular vendor and maybe work out better pricing or follow it through, as opposed to, you know, spreading that out. So I know you and I started working together, what, maybe 9, 10 months ago now, or what was it, because you had built a great firm, great revenues, you really were in a really good position. So sometimes, and I'm saying that, Jenni, because sometimes people think that I only get called when everything's falling apart. And that is not true. Sometimes, when everything's falling apart, it does happen. But a lot of people call me because everything is going really, really great. And they need to fine tune it because the opportunity in front of them is so big or so large, or is just even out there. And they want to be prepared to take that next really big step. And that's where you were, you guys had already built something, you'd built something really great. You'd already invested in a team you had I want to think I want to think you've had 14 people on your team. When you came to me I remember it was like the largest team, we spent almost our entire team dive, rolling out what everyone was doing right and how they were doing. I mean, it was really a large machine. But we knew that there were efficiencies that we could build into that you knew that you had some opportunities before you and you needed a bit more structure to move. What was it that made you you're a super smart businesswoman, we've already that's already been decided. But I'm curious in just because in that journey, I think others can learn from it as well. Jenni, what was it that made you realize, okay, I've gotten to kind of a place where I need to invite somebody else to look into this, like, I've built this 14 person team, we are humming along, we have broken into the seven figures without a problem like none of that's an issue. But I see in my marketplace, an opportunity for me to go here, whatever you're here is what what was. Tell me about the tension of that time and what was happening, that caused you to either realize you needed to scale or hold back, or reassess, you know, there was something that you had to do, because where you were wasn't going to be sustainable, with ease going forward.
Jenni Egger 28:25
So there's a couple things you said in there. First of all, we have not gotten any bigger, I don't, I don't have 14 people I have more like 12 to 13 people, but we have continually tried to drill down and and that's something I believe in is you look at what you already own, what you already have what you already possess, that you can just make better. And so reaching out to you was really a result of listening to your podcast regularly. So I was first introduced to you and specifically Profit First. Gosh, was it 2017 that you were on a Well Designed Business? And that's where I learned about you and then your podcast started. So I was listening religiously, because we're sort of an anomaly in our area. There aren't a lot of firms that do everything that we do. And so I didn't have anyone around here that I could could talk to, and I needed support. My husband is not very entrepreneurial. So he was always very skeptical about my big ideas. And because of Profit First and because of your podcast, I started paying myself a regular wage. And so I was doing what so many before me do and why probably a lot of people call you is we were just getting what was leftover. And sometimes that was a lot some of the sometimes it wasn't that by understanding profit. First I started paying myself and then the next year, I paid myself double. And then the next year, I paid myself double that. And I also had money for taxes, and I had money for rent and for all the things that that we do. And so I felt really connected to you. But also, I had hit a benchmark that I had set for myself. So not unlike, you know, even like my bracca two diagnosis where if this happened, here's what I was gonna do, I'm kind of that type of person. Like, if I hit this point, then this is what I'm going to do. And I, I think about that ahead of time, I don't wait until I'm in the moment with all the emotions or the overwhelm to do it. But I had decided that if I hit a certain point in my business, with the people involved with the money involved, that I needed a coach. And so that is what led me to sort of some discovery calls with a lot of different options. And I, I just felt really comfortable with you, because you had been in my life sort of every morning, a couple of days a week listening to your podcast, but also just the focus on interior design firms. And and I hope that answered your question, how it came to be?
Michele 31:15
Yeah, it's a couple of things I want to drill down in. First is, I love how you set up, look at what we already do, but do well and do it better. That's kind of goes back to that focus on the a grade don't focus on your C grade. So if you look at the C grade, look at it, do we need to continue offering it? Can we move it to a B? Do we have any ability there? If not, and no matter what we do? It's going to stay a C maybe it just comes off the package list. Right? And so I love how you looked at what is the sweet spot in your business? What is it that our business excels at? I always ask it if there was a billboard that said what your team and your company was most excellent at? What would you want on that billboard? And that's what you did you thought what is on our billboard? Right? Right. Um, I also love how you preset and you and I've talked about this in your coaching multiple times you are a planner, you think ahead, you're five steps ahead most of the time. I'm like that too. But you gave yourself a benchmark that says if I get to here, I will have I know that I've done it. But I also know that I'm going to need somebody to help me get like to the next big benchmark that I have. And so you had already prepped yourself. It's funny that you say that, because I would say quite a few people that come to me, have told me things like, you're the gift, I promised my business when I got to here, or I'd been hoping that I could give my business this when I got to here. And so you're not alone in that. But I also want to commend you for reaching out and talking to more than one coach. You know, some people think I've even seen designers get all twisted up, oh my gosh, the homeowner is talking to two or three designers. That's okay. That is totally okay, I wouldn't walk out and just have a huge purchase like that. Whether it's coaching or the design services that you offer or a car, I wouldn't just walk into one person and just take it I would look around, I would shop, I would look for how we fit together. And and there are a lot of great coaches out there. I actually recommend other coaches sometimes when people call me, because I'm like what you really need, you're not ready for what I have to offer you or you're already past what I have to offer you and I think you need this. And so I love that you did that. I think it's a really smart thing and identify what it is you need before you start looking. And then it helps with that connection. I know that Jenni, when we started working together, you had some pretty lofty goals. like you'd already hit a huge benchmark, but you had like, I want to double all that. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Which is crazy for me that I mean, not crazy for me. But you know, when you start getting into the upper, you know, seven figures and you're wanting to double that, and you're looking at these numbers, you're going, Oh my gosh, whoo, Okay, here we go. But you've, you've done it, right. Yeah, we're, we're not even a year in.
Jenni Egger 34:11
Yeah I mean, it's nice of you to say that, you know, my business inside and out. And, you know, that all goes back to the scaling piece. I was finding that I was deep with in with clients and I would leave their job that they hired me for Ruby finished and two or three months later, I would see, you know, the blind the blind truck in their driveway. And they because they thought either I was too busy, or they didn't even know I did window treatments, or for some of the reason they didn't call me back for that. And so I realized that I want to have a specialty and we you know specialize in kitchens, that is something that everyone knows, but I also want to be able to offer all the services. And I mean, you know that sometimes I have a reason to back off of one area of my business because we're not getting the right product or the right quality or the the transportation isn't working out for that particular product or the timeliness. And so I've set my business up so that we have all of these income streams. And if needed, I can walk away from one for a minute without it totally wrecking going for my yeah, wrecking the whole business. And being being forced to remain in that arena, I can sort of step out of one room and go into another room for a while. And and the people that are surrounding me on our team are the reason for that. And I couldn't have done that by myself.
Michele 35:51
Sure. You know, a couple of other things that if I just kind of reflect over your last 10 months, or whatever that that I think is important is your team is a bit smaller than what it was. And sometimes people think that to scale means they just got to keep hiring. What we did was we went deeper into who you had already hired, how they needed, were they in the right seat did we need to move some people around? Did we have maybe some positions that could be absorbed into other positions, we really, one of the things that I always have you I'll do is take the names off the boxes, we draw the box design consultant or window treatment specialist, but we take the names off, the minute you attach a team members name to an org chart, you start feelings as they say, you start getting the fields or you feel some kind of way about that person. And we had to do some an analysis where we took all the names away, and we just put the roles and the functions up on the board. And then we asked is the business set up in a way that those roles and those functions are in the right place and, and working in the right heart hierarchy. I know we also spent some time getting you into hive and helping you get some processes automated so that we use technology instead of people. And we use that technology in those processes to support the work, as you say that your fantastic team was already doing. And I think sometimes we forget about the technology and scaling, we think about it maybe more from I gotta have AutoCAD or Revit, or SketchUp, or chief architect or, you know, we think of that type of technology. But we don't think about just kind of the workflow that can really step in and streamline some of our work. And there's one other area that I want to give you huge kudos on that I've watched and just been amazed. I think, from your past and just your regular demeanor, you have such a kind heart, and the way that you write and communicate to your team. And the way that you write and communicate to your clients is just beautiful. Like I know that I was able to review some of the emails that you sent, especially during COVID. And during some of the shutdowns and the lock downs and the disappointments that things didn't arrive. And you just constantly it goes back to I think what you learned at Clinique and Estee Lauder, but you took that and you create it and it's okay, we're here together, I've got this, I will do and you've got a very much we will do what it takes within our ability to care for you. And you you've found a way to keep kind of just patting that client on the back through emails and affirming that you've had it. You got it. My team's got it. We're okay. It's okay. And I think you just really did an excellent job at that. And I think that speaks highly of your leadership.
Jenni Egger 38:50
Well, thank you. It hasn't been an easy time. And you know, we promise a lot because there there are many of us and we take on a lot of clients our volume is is high and the ratio of problems to all the successes has increased. I mean it there are more problems and everything takes longer. And I love to solve problems. But I would like that ratio to go down a little bit compared to all the celebrations. Yeah.
Michele 39:20
What have you seen as some of the other ways that your business has either grown or succeeded during like this last year of transition into scaling up again? Again, recognizing that scaling up? Here's a couple things, you have less people. Yes, you have a lot of work, but I wouldn't say that you. We didn't double and triple all the work that was coming on, right like some people think the only way to scale is to double it. We didn't do that. It was really about taking the right work at the right time in the right way with the right processes, so that you could maximize profitability and I know we have been able to again To increase your salary to bring it up to a very healthy level for the work that you're doing, and at the same time, you've been able to give bonuses to teammates, you've been able to do a lot of other things in your firm. You know, it's not like you're just making, it's not like any of us are all just making money for us. It's that we are building these things so that we can also give to others around us and to keep other businesses supported.
Jenni Egger 40:25
I think, you know, generally, women are generous business owners, I mean, I think there are actual statistics about that. One of my biggest why's of doing this is so that I can help other people. And you know, it was Zig Ziglar says, if you help other people get what they want, you get what you want. And so I have always approached it like that with my direct team, and with my indirect team, the suppliers and the vendors. But also the trades really, right now, when you talk about, you know, how the business has changed, I think we've become even more valuable because I have trades people that I've worked with for 12 years since I started this who are still with me who show up who know how we work. And that has become so valuable to our clients, because they're waiting, you know, they're hearing that their neighbors waiting three weeks for somebody that I can get over to their house in three hours. And so having this group of trades that we can call on who have gone from, you know, maybe working with us a third of the time to working with us half the time and now work with us exclusively. And so that's been a big one. And again, just narrowing down what each person on my team does. So they're doing the same things, but really well, and it's in line with something that they love to do.
Michele 41:57
So I know we've been talking about all the successes in your scaling, we've been talking about how you've been ready to scale, and the leadership that you've brought to this team from your prior work and career. But Jenni, it has not always been easy either has it?
Jenni Egger 42:12
No, it is not easy.
Michele 42:17
If you would, and the reason that we're talking about all of this is because, again, scaling means different things to different people. But we sometimes have these preconceived ideas that scaling means I need to move out of my home, it means I need to hire 14 people or three people or any people I don't really want to it means I got to take on more and more and more jobs. But that's just not true. Scaling can mean I want to make the same amount of money and more or less well, that means we had to tighten up process scaling might mean, I want to have the same team, but I want to dig deep and make sure everybody's in the same in the right role and position. And I want to take larger jobs that are better jobs and more profitable jobs, instead of just more and more and more work. And scaling doesn't mean that we have to start adding in nights and weekends to the work calendar like that. That is just those are the myths that that's what you have to you have to be overwhelmed, right. But it also doesn't mean you've done all of these things to do it right. You've spent the time and the investment of time, effort, energy, money, study all of the things to do it with more ease than instead of with more dis ease. But tell us some of the challenges that you have faced in scaling. What what what are some of those that either you've already faced and overcome? Or what are some of the ones that you're still working on to get to the next place? You want to go?
Jenni Egger 43:38
Yeah, so I mean, the the biggest challenge, you know, clearly right now with coming out of the pandemic, is just the time it takes to do everything we do. So the level of detail that I set the business up to fulfill for the client, some of that has become unrealistic, because we do have to make decisions and order things sooner. So tweaking processes that we you know, thought we had nailed down. And if you just can't do business today, the way we did it two years ago, so for me just about the time that we were getting everything down, then the whole world changed. And so that's a challenge. Keeping up with the growth of the business has been a big challenge. Sometimes it takes a minute for the numbers to catch up with what we're doing. And sometimes I take on business that we don't necessarily need to to keep the business healthy. And then we find ourselves you know, in this wave of being a little bit too busy for a while. We haven't had the issue of it not being busy enough or not having a robust enough pipeline. But for me, it is sort of all of this together the time it takes to do the jobs that we want to do the way we want To do them, and then what that takes away from everyone's access to me. So how I want to spend my days isn't always the way I have to spend my days. And so that has been a challenge, again, keeping up with our individual jobs reporting things to the client, so that there's no surprises, that takes a lot of people outside our control. Just getting quotes and bids on things right now is, is taking three and four times as long. So sometimes we go into projects, not really even knowing what it's going to cost, and then delivering that information as we go through. And all of that takes more time. So think time right now is a big, a big challenge for sure. And I really don't think that any business can sustain, right now, sort of under the same terms as we did a couple years ago. And so just like we get notices every week of service charges and surcharges and how prices are going up, we're working on all of that, because my clients want my business to succeed, right? If they don't, they shouldn't be my client. And we have to make sure that we're charging the right amounts for the service that we're giving. And so that is a huge challenge right now, because again, you don't always get all those numbers to add up until the very end. And there's a lot effecting changes in pricing. in there, there's an emotional challenge. I mean, I have experienced more emotions this past 18 months, than I did like in that 18 month period when I had my surgeries and with scaling my business. And that takes a toll. It's challenging to just be faced with so many roadblocks at every turn. And the minute we think we get one figured out, then there's something else and it's discouraging to people it's discouraging to the client into the team members that are around me, it's discouraging when someone shows up to work, and they don't have the materials to install that day. It's discouraging when we do things for the third and fourth time, and we feel like we're just spinning our wheels. So there are certainly challenges. But I also feel so much support, I have support from you. I mean, the support system that I have in my family, my husband now that my son's an adult, he is supportive of what I do. Certainly the team being here and all the trades and vendors and suppliers that we go through. It's like we're all cheering each other on and sort of understanding what we're dealing with at this moment.
Michele 47:55
So one of the last questions I want to ask you with regards to challenges is this. You know, one of the, and again, you touched on it earlier, one of the first things we also did is we looked at where we needed to pull Genie out of some of the day to day and I know we're still working on extricating you from all of the detail in the company. And it's really hard, especially when you have a name that you know is on the business and everybody knows who it is. And we start these businesses with our names, and we're the ones doing all the things. But have you found it in some cases to be challenging to take you out of some of that day to day, and to trust that the work will still get done?
Jenni Egger 48:39
Yeah, it you know, COVID was a good experiment in that we couldn't be on our jobs like we wanted to be and like we had in the past. And what I was so proud of is because of a lot of the systems and the processes that we put in place. Two years ago, before we even thought about the pandemic, we were able to see results by us not being there and me specifically not being right in the middle of the job. So we limited you know, our touches, we didn't want to check in on a job every day like we had in the past because it was just too much. So a lot of you know, the process of our work orders and using pictures and using diagrams and really explaining things on the front end. That was really important people working from home. I mean that, you know, I learned sometimes if you don't answer a question, the first couple times it gets asked people will figure it out for themselves. And so there was a little bit of a learning curve with that. But yeah, I mean, stepping out of the minutiae of the business. So, you know, I have been more and more aware when I'm being pulled in to an area that I don't really need to be pulled into, and just letting my team make some mistakes, that's probably been the hardest thing is, you know, mistakes hurt, they're painful, I learned so much for making a lot of mistakes, costly mistakes, and, you know, mistakes that didn't cost money, but cost a lot of other things. So allowing them to make mistakes, and I think my team would say, you know, I always have their back, I'm never going to, you know, rub their nose in the mistake. But they do learn from those mistakes. And so that has been one of the best educations over the years of scaling is just letting people you know, dip their toe in it, and then jump in and see how it worked. And then we try it again. Because I mean, we're not curing cancer here, right, we're doing window treatments and, and beautiful, beautiful rooms,
Michele 50:55
Which again, it kind of relates back to the conversation we had about, we don't even know we have a skill set if we haven't had a chance to exercise it and try it. And so I'd love that part of the leadership that you provide for your team is the ability to try things and to grow in their roles within the firm. And I think there is a safe place to grow. That's why kids stay at home for the first 810 years is a safe place to grow. And to try things out. And to know that you have your teams back that same way, is really awesome. Well, and that,
Jenni Egger 51:27
you know, makes me think about back to the challenges and how all of this relates, you know, a big adjustment has been being Jenny agar designs with Jenny anger at the forefront, to Jenny anger designs, the firm, and you've helped me a lot just identify myself as a design firm owner, as opposed to the design designer.
Michele 51:52
And that's when we're looking at. Just as a reminder, I'm a Fix This Next certified coach. That's what we're starting to look at impact and legacy. If we create a business where we're the only person at the top where the only person anybody ever wants to work with but when we start elevating our teammates, number one, it gives us room to breathe as the owner. But number two, it starts to create team conversation. One of the first things I do when I talk to, you know, a business owner who perhaps is trying to get out of it. As we change their email, it's not Jenni @, or Michele @ its designer @ or team @ or something project manager @, we change it up a little bit so that it doesn't have to be their name. And if somebody else if we were to assign that they can go in and answer that on our behalf. So it is it's a mindset shift. And not every business wants to do that. They want to turn the lights off when they're done. And that's totally fine. But when we're trying to create an impact and a legacy in the area that we work that is larger than any one person, then we have to be able to adjust our thinking and that hierarchy. So it's not always easy, definitely emotion that comes with that. No doubt. So Jenny, thank you so much for sharing all of this and some of your journey. I know we haven't hit on every single bit of it, but so many great takeaways and nuggets and learning opportunities and just things for leadership for our team to think about. And so I appreciate you sharing and tell everybody where you're hanging out on social media and your website.
Jenni Egger 53:28
Sure. So the website is the best place to get to know Jenni Egger Designs and it is JenniEggerdesigns.com and then on Instagram, it's @JenniEggerDesigns.
Michele 53:46
Awesome, awesome. Well, we'll have this in the show notes too, so that everybody can get them but again, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your wisdom of scaling.
Jenni Egger 53:53
Thank you, Michele.
Michele 53:55
Thank you, Jenny for joining us today and sharing about managing for results and focusing on areas and skill sets where we're already naturally talented. These are really great reminders. Jenni's success in my program is not a one off. Learning to really build a business intentionally allows you to begin to work less and make more and then enjoy the work so much better. If you want to know more you can go to my website and check out the seven figure case study www.ScarletThreadConsulting.com/7-figure-casestudy. You can also find it under the Resources tab. be intentional with your team building because profit doesn't happen by accident. Profit is a Choice is proud to be part of the designnetwork.org where you can discover more design media reaching creative listeners. Thanks for listening and stay creative and business minded.