165: Why Relationships are Key to Scaling Your Design Firm
Michele 00:00
Hello, my name is Michele, and you're listening to Profit is a Choice. With me today on the podcast is Sarah Walker of Nuance Interiors in Washington State. Sarah has just opened a high-end showroom in the Pacific Northwest catering to builders and other designers, we're going to discuss her journey and design, how she chose to step out of the comfortable and take a risk and what she would do differently next time.
Michele 00:30
Every day, empowered entrepreneurs are taking ownership of their company financial health, and enjoying the rewards of reduce stress and more creativity. With my background, as a financial software developer, owner of multiple businesses in the interior design, industry, educator and speaker, I coach women in the interior design industry to increase their profits, regain ownership of their bottom line, and to have fun again in their business. Welcome to Profit is a Choice.
Michele 01:02
Hey, Sarah, welcome to the podcast.
Sarah Walker 01:04
Thank you so much for having me, Michele, I'm so excited to be here.
Michele 01:07
Oh, I'm excited to talk to you, you've had quite a few changes going on in your business. And so I'm excited to jump into those and chat with you about how you scaled the lessons, you've learned some of the things that you did. And one of the things I keep trying to talk about on the podcast over and over and over is how we all may scale in different directions, and that there's not just one pathway to growing or expanding our business. And so today, we're going to look into opening if you will show room as part of an expansion plan. But before we jump into that, I would love Sarah for you to share with the listeners a little bit about yourself, your background, how you got started in design, what made you even choose this path.
Sarah Walker 01:54
That is a funny story. So when I was 12 years old, we had a little bit of a career day at my church. And an interior designer came in and talked about, you know, some of the things you might know if you're an interior designer, if you do this, and it was things like rearranging furniture all the time, and, you know, rearranging rooms when you walk into them in your head. And all those things really clicked with me. And I knew at 12 years old that that's what I wanted to be when I grew up. And so basically my whole trajectory, from that point on has been about interior design. So I shadowed a professional locally, while I was in high school, went to a CIA accredited university, which is Utah State, one of the schools on the West Coast area. And then I went from there right into a job with a local interior design firm in Utah for a couple of years, went out on my own. We moved to Seattle A few years after I graduated with my bachelor's degree in interior design, with an emphasis in art and business. And I went to work for Nordstrom doing interior design for the Nordstrom Rack stores across the country did a couple 100 of those, as well as some work at the full line Nordstrom, which included spas and some restaurants and flying to Italy to design some custom tile for the men's department, you know, lots of really fabulous experiences. I did that for about seven years, while simultaneously having my interior design business. And when things kind of slow down with the retail economy, I left Nordstrom and went out 100% on my own for a few years. And I've always wanted to do Kitchens and Baths, I found them really intimidating as I was going to school and you know, starting earlier on in my career, but I love cooking. That's one of my hobbies. And so I really have an affinity for kitchen design. And when I started doing a little bit more of that, I realized that there weren't a lot of great cabinetry companies locally that I could work with. And so that led me to my showroom.
Michele 04:14
Wow. So let's say from the time you get out of college and started your first job until opening your showroom and mid 2021 how many years was that?
Sarah Walker 04:28
15 years, 15 years.
Michele 04:30
When you were doing interior design on your own after you left Nordstrom were you doing mostly residential? Correct?
Sarah Walker 04:40
Yes. Primarily residential. A lot of remodels. Okay, yeah, that was a little bit of like commercial but predominantly residential.
Michele 04:49
And I'm, I'm impressed that it 12 years old, you figured that out? You know, it's, it's funny. Even in hindsight, I know that in my bedroom. I'm growing up and I we did not live in an area where I even I didn't even know about interior design. I didn't know that they were interior designers. I know anybody who did it. It was a small, very more rural Milltown in South Carolina. So it just wasn't a thing. Like I didn't even know that it was an option. It never crossed my mind. But I did know that I loved to make things into put things together and design things. And, unfortunately, probably fortunate for my parents, but they had wallpapered my room. So there was no opportunity to repaint my room and do all these things. But I did as much as I could constantly move things around and organize things and try to make things pretty and do all that. So it's funny that you say it, because it made me in my mind's eye kind of like go all the way back to the things that I did. Yeah. And without even thinking about it. Right. Right. I'm curious, you mentioned something that that piqued my interest, that you had a degree in interiors, but with an emphasis, like the art and the business, I don't often hear of an interior degree with an emphasis in business. I mean, that's usually one of the areas that is most lacking in school for interior design, that I find that really interesting. Can you share a little bit about how that worked in your program? And how you found that to be beneficial later?
Sarah Walker 06:30
Yes, absolutely. So it was kind of an interesting program, it was very competitive. And I believe it still is actually. And they have, at the time, two tracks, they had a business track, and a design track, and they kind of had placement tests based on your aptitude, or whether you would be better placed in the kind of more formal interior design track, which ended up interestingly enough, being a lot of hand rendering, which I had zero interest in, and have never used it a day in my life. And so a lot of the emphasis was on, you know, perspective drawings and computer renderings, but back then it was a lot more cumbersome and took a lot more programs. And then the other option was the business track, which I showed more aptitude for. And it was the way they phrased it was to really set people up to be like sales reps, or vendor reps. And you would end up you know, hypothetically, even being more profitable than, you know, the artsy side of the interior design. And I was lucky enough to kind of take the classes, open my eyes about business organization, structure, and leadership and management styles. And also some legal courses, as well as some, the past they were money management classes, right. And so it really ended up helping me be successful and having my own business and not be intimidated by, you know, the behind the scenes, things of payroll, and the legal entities, like I set up my own LLC all by myself, and did my own website. And, you know, just a lot of those foundational things when you're trying to be really scrappy, and doing it on your own and try not to hire stuff out. It gave me that confidence to be an entrepreneur.
Michele 08:32
Yeah, that is amazing. What, oh, gosh, I wish every I don't care if you're drawing, and doing it by hand, everybody needs some level of business class. Exactly. Even if even if your choice is to be an employee of another firm. It's understanding what it takes for that firm to stay in business to keep you employed. And so I think everybody understanding that level of business could be beneficial for, for the entire industry. So it's just fascinating that you have that when, when it's not what we usually hear. So thank you for sharing about that. So let me ask you, this, you've pivoted a couple of times, right? Your first pivot was probably you know, the Nordstrom to working on your own. And now you've pivoted again to open a showroom. Before we dig into the planning of the showroom and all of that. Tell me a little bit about what you currently are doing with the showroom. And then let's talk about how you got there.
Sarah Walker 09:39
Absolutely. So currently, the showroom is exclusively to the trade and we have 3000 square feet, half of which is allocated to cabinetry so we carry two high end custom cabinet lines. Of course, they have some tiers in them, but predominantly they are known from being built from the box up. So crystal cabinets out of Minnesota and bow format cabinets out of Germany. And two different aesthetics. The US one is a little bit more traditional and transitional, they're starting to do some contemporary things. And then our format is all the way from IKEA, comparable, they have a line called about basic that is competitive with IKEA all the way up to the most bespoke thing you can think of they have leather, they have fabric, they have, you know, any kind of metal. They have cement, just tons of different things. And they have a lot of capability to do whatever you can dream of as far as the interior components and the sizing and then crystal has really that gorgeous furniture style. They do they insets doors it is just beautiful with the finishes and premium wood species, as well as they're starting to branch out into some really cool laminates, wood, wood, wood veneers, things like that. So we have actually five full size kitchen displays are about 12 by 12 with islands floating, and then we have a little wet bar and then I have five vanity displays. The other half of the showroom is any kind of interior architectural finished material you can think of so I have a few different types of hardwood engineered wood LBP, area rugs, different types of trim, all the different cabinet hardware, mesh, veneers, different inserts that you can do like the textured fluted caning, you name it. We have all the different kinds of quartz countertops from the top of the line vendors. We have carpet, both nylon and wool and lighting. Plumbing are partnered with some really high end vendors for plumbing like Waterstone watermark door and Brock electric mirror, you know, just you name that we have it. Basically, the goal is to create a one stop shop for a luxury custom home builder or interior designer or an architect. So they can come in, we can put a full pallet together. Everything from paint to cabinets, and we can do procurement for them tracking and project management. That's a lot. Yes, yes. And we also I should mention, do custom window treatments predominantly with Hunter Douglas. But also, we carry some fabrics, like with the fabric hat and a couple other gorgeous brands.
Michele 13:04
That is amazing. So this has been a labor of love and a lot of ways to pull together this 3000 square feet. How long? Would you say that it has been in the planning phase before you had your opening?
Sarah Walker 13:18
Well, with COVID, everything was stretched out a little bit as far as timeline goes. But I decided probably last summer that I would open a showroom. So after COVID, you know, I just I saw a lot of need for, you know, people were staying at home, they were remodeling like crazy. And our housing market is such in Seattle that it isn't really impacted negatively ever, like even in the 2000 crash, we have very little impact to the real estate market just because there's a lot of athletes in this area. And so people even if they could sell their home at top dollar, they weren't really able to go turn around and buy something, you know, newer comparable for anything in the same ballpark. Right. So a lot of remodels were happening. And I figured that that was really going to be the trend going forward that you know, once people were staying home, it's not like they were going to really be all that anxious to go full time back to the office. And so a showroom just felt like a really great idea. And we have found our property. Within a few months. I would say we closed on it in October. And then we were able to get access in February. And we opened in June kind of a soft opening. You know, we're still missing a couple of odds and ends but we're about 85 90% done at this point.
Michele 14:58
You definitely didn't go Did this lightly. And I know that because we coached together, you didn't go into this lightly, you went into this with a lot of thought, share a little bit with the listeners about the journey of discovery, if you will, for what it was going to take to bring this to reality. versus just a dream that Sarah had, like, when you rearrange the room in your head, you didn't just build the business in your head, you put it on paper, you did the hard work prior to so that you're walking in as much as you possibly could, knowing what you needed to know and having your eyes open. But talk to us about that.
Sarah Walker 15:41
I would say so much of it is vendor relationships, so much of it, I would say a lot of my successes a designer is who I know and who I'm connected with, and really supporting my vendors as they support me. And a lot of it was I'd never had the aspiration to have my own showroom, I will be completely honest, that was not on my bucket list. At any point. I've been working out of my home for at least 10-12 years, and basically have no overhead. And really what I've been doing is stockpiling all of the income and saving it. And when I decided I wanted to open a showroom, I was like, Okay, I think financially, it's feasible. What I didn't know was that as wonderful as my vendors are, they are not in a position anymore like maybe they were 20 years ago to give things away for showrooms. I think what I heard from a lot of vendors is after the crash in 2007, they really tightened their belts, and they didn't do so much of the like free displays. So even with my money saved, and wonderful vendors, there was a lot of sticker shock associated with opening the showroom. And I didn't want a basic showroom. I didn't want to build a great showroom I wanted as luxury as I really could be within reason, you know, and still, you know, not alienates people, potential clients. So basically, I took the number and spent about double, just because until I had committed and said, I've got a real estate space, can I get a quote for this what it would be with a display discount, and realize that it wasn't as much off as I thought it would be? It kind of got a little tight, a little bit painful. But what we did was we were able to get some loans with the SBA, and that, you know, fixed a lot of the financial issues. But what I learned hindsight 2020, and I don't know if there's really anything I could have done differently, but really sitting down with those vendors and saying, Tell me what this will cost before committing to the space. But what, you know why I say it's not as feasible, as a lot of them wouldn't have told me, I wouldn't have give it had that time willing to invest in me without that commitment already in place on my side. So that was really tricky. And kind of frustrating, because like I said, I spent about double what I had budgeted. And I didn't want an incomplete space. I didn't want people to come in and for me to have to say, Oh, yeah, you know, when we get more money in a few years, then we'll do this and this and, you know, painting that dream firm, I really wanted them to be able to come into a completed gorgeous space with their clients, and say, This is what you can have. And so for it to be aspirational for them, not aspirational for me. I wanted it to complete and luxurious, because people buy what they see.
Michele 19:05
So the more that I mean, how many how many clients, I mean, if I could have $1 for every client who said to every designer, that sounds great, but can't see it, touch it, sit on it, feel it. And they're like oh, buy it from the catalog. Here's a flatlay Don't you see this picture in the magazine, this is what you're getting. And there's just something about seeing it, touching it feeling experiencing it even and seeing combinations of things together or walking over and looking at one thing with another. You know, if you don't have it, I'm certainly not saying everybody needs to run out and buy from a showroom or create a showroom. But I am saying that when you're there it does make the sales process in some ways go much easier exactly when you have everything right there so I can appreciate that. I also know one of the things you and I were working on together and have been working on is your strategic plan and really trying to create a plan for what you want this to be. And that that was very impressive, not that I wouldn't have thought you wouldn't have done it. But it was just impressive to see how you have really tried to think through that. And you looked at, you alluded to it, but you looked at the market around you and you looked at what do people need? And who do I want to serve, because this became a change from you directly serving the client to us serving the builders in your area, who are serving the client, or even other designers potentially, in your area that are serving the client. And so there had to be a little bit of a shift there. And I know you worked through that, what was that process like, really kind of looking to who your ideal client is different than what your ideal client was, when you were in private practice. I'm doing design.
Sarah Walker 20:52
So true, so true. One of the things I really enjoy is working with the builders, because what I found in our area is the builders, the clients go to the builders first. So when they close that deal, and they have that contract in place, then they want to hand it off to a designer, have the designer do the work for the finishes and the cabinetry. And then they can quote and build it. They don't know it, it's not as successful of a project for them, if they're kind of guessing, putting in large margins, it ends up, I think, a longer and more frustrating process with the client. And so they were trying to bring the clients to me, and have me put the specification book together, and then they would price it. And I really liked that part, I felt like it was kind of interesting combination between my commercial experience and my residential experience. Because it took some of the emotion out when I would work with a builder, and they would just be able to say, Yes, we can do that. It'll cost this much, you know, that's kind of the discussion. And meanwhile, I could also be working with the client. And getting that, that joint fulfillment that comes from giving the client their dream home. So it really was the best of both worlds for me. And I realized, I really enjoyed that. And wanted, and found that it was really great as a side benefit for the builder to do the marketing for me. And so they would just say, yeah, we have this designer, or we have these two designers, you know, interview them. And, and I would get really great clients that way. So I enjoyed that part. The other thing that I didn't want to create was a showroom where just anyone off the street could walk in. And I would have to spend, you know, an hour or two with them educating them about, you know, what makes cabinetry, this or that or, you know, all those different aspects and why ceramic or tile or porcelain tile, I wanted a client that I could have a commitment with, before I went through all that time investment. And then I realized, you know what, it'd be great if the designer came in with their client, they could do the educating, I could fill in the gaps, and it would be an even more spectacular project. And so that's where I landed with being open exclusively to the trade.
Michele 22:03
And then how has that impacted your new building of relationships because I say you'd worked with two or three builders in the past, we need more than two or three builders to keep you busy. And with COVID. And you know, we haven't had as many opportunities to network and to do the things that normally we would have done to build that up, what have you found has either worked for you? Or do you have on the list in the future continuing on, even with some of the different challenges surrounding COVID, to be able to meet new people, and not only just meet new people, you're going to meet builders that are building homes that can handle the cabinetry that you're selling?
Sarah Walker 23:59
Exactly. Right.
Michele 24:01
I mean, that we do have somehow what, where are we stepping into the market here, you're certainly not going to, you know, I would say attract builder, not there's anything wrong with the track builder, but that's not a home that would normally handle the cabinetry and the level of luxury that you're trying to sell. So in some ways, you've kind of narrowed down and you kind of know who, yeah, tell us about that relationship building that that more granular conversation that you have with them.
Sarah Walker 24:29
Yeah, so that process really starts with me, going to like Luxe magazine, or some of the higher end local publications, where the builders that have the financial backing to advertise in those types of magazines are going to be the people that I want to connect with. And then I compiled that list. I went to some of my vendor partners and I said, Who do you enjoy working with? That's in this segment. Then I went and did it. Extensive kind of Google search, frankly, and compiled a list of about 400, different builders, designers, architects, things of that nature, people that were associated with Master Builders Association or Ida as ID, ideas and figured out, you know, who really is interested in what I'm offering. And then I sent them invitations to like a soft open house since obviously, it wasn't 100% done. And then when coming up, what I have planned is sending out a pretty detailed welcome pocket. As far it's a nice combination of photos and text about how we work to the trade like we offer, the ability for them to purchase it at the same prices that they would if they went to any of our vendors directly at their showrooms, which are scattered all over the area, we created a one stop shop for about 15 different tile vendors, for example. So instead of going to 15 different showrooms, they can come to us see all the options and buy it at the same price, they would bind directly with their trade discount. So information like that our process, how we work, you know what our steps are to complete the project, we're very big on process, because with electric client, it is so much about experience. And conveying that to them. I had my website redone. I hired a social media manager to do ad campaigns to promote our showroom, the products in it, our vendor partners, our process, some imaging. And also, you know, just some videos of me talking about why I started the showroom, why I chose the lines that I did. And then we will, when things kind of open up even more in the fall. I've invited each of the vendors to do like an unveiling party, combined with some education about why their brand is considered a luxury brand. And we'll be marketing that to the builders and designers so that they can come in learn about, you know, artistic tile and Saks new Ravenna, the plumbing lines that I talked about, we just have a really great array of options for that luxury client. And we want to let people know what makes them so special and how to customize how to leverage what we offer. And what is the feedback, what is the response been from that
Michele 27:36
And what is the feedback, what is the response been from that?
Sarah Walker 27:37
it's been overwhelmingly positive, I just, I feel so blessed to, you know, have the vendors come in, and they love everything from the location where up on a little bluff overlooking Lake Washington and a greenbelt. And I've been in the industry long enough that I've really curated brands that are important. And in this area in Seattle, we're very great conscious. And a lot of our builders are greenbelt certified. And so all of the offerings in the showroom have a key component of sustainability. And what's so wonderful is, even though these vendors, some of them are our competitors, their friends, for the most part, they know everyone in the industry because it's kind of like musical chairs. And so they have, they are familiar with other products, and they're so excited to be counted as someone qualified to be in that space. And so I've got great feedback from my partners, great feedback from builders that come in and say, Wow, this is going to be so fabulous to bring a client here versus, you know, a contractor showroom where it's more just sort of folding chairs and, you know, some tables in a corner, we've really made it an experience where we have like the Sonos sound system, we have a frame TV for doing presentations that you can just, you know, Bluetooth into with your laptop. We have working stations scattered throughout with trays for flatlays. So you can just go around and create your flatlay with everything in the showroom. And then we have you know, display boards that have all like the plumbing finishes, the Schluter, the Infinity drain, just all the different components that you would need to really put together an entire kitchen, an entire bathroom right there.
Michele 29:35
Okay, so I'm ready to like hop on a plane and fly out. Yeah, well, this is I am so excited for you.
Sarah Walker 29:41
Thank you.
Michele 29:42
Alright, so when you were originally I know that we looked at doing we did a couple of models. You created them and then I reviewed them and gave feedback some of the financial models and I now know that some of the things were doubled and cost more. But you also started trying to put together some plans for how quickly you're going to start making some money at it right, bringing in those first revenues. And then also a plan for what that growth pattern might look like over time. And how often do you anticipate now knowing what you know, and what you didn't know, going in and revising those and keeping up with those? Because that's a job in and of itself.
Sarah Walker 30:25
Right, right. And so, with your advice, I also partnered with a Profit First accountant. And so we actually review that quarterly good. And she has someone working with me that I can categorize my expenses on a weekly basis. So I'm really aware of, you know, what's going out right now, there's not a whole lot coming in just because we're, we're still in build out phase where an unknown entity, but fortunately, I have all of my business from before the showroom. So it's really important to me, because now I have overhead. And I didn't have that before. And it's not just a little bit of overhead, it's downtown Bellevue, Washington overhead. And I have to assistant designers on payroll, which I hadn't ever had before. And I have, you know, just scaled up on my personnel kind of across the board, as I mentioned, the Social Media Manager, a little bit more robust accounting partner. And occasionally, I'll use a virtual assistant for procurement tracking. And you know, that I anticipate will scale as the procurement comes full force. So we have all the components in place for when things get really busy. And I wanted to do that on the front end, so that when things get busy, there wasn't a pain point for my clients later. But that has an associated cost. So it's really important for me to just keep a pulse on that my hand on the pulse.
Michele 32:04
Yeah, so you know, and that brings up a good point, some people might think, Wow, that's a whole lot that you're putting into it to begin, but you're also trying to begin the way you want to continue exactly and not begin in a way and I'm not giving just general advice that everybody has to do it that same way, everybody has to look at their business plan, they've got to look at where they are their marketing plans, what you're doing would not work without a marketing effort behind it, it just wouldn't. But nobody can go open a whole new store, or you know, any type of capital expenditure like that, and not think that you're going to market and push behind it. And then there's a ramp up phase, you know, we can't just build our plans that say, the first year I'm going to do ABC, you almost have to look at it as here's first quarter here, second quarter, his third quarter, his fourth, and the combo of those is what's going to make up the time. And I think it's also looking at planning way in advance. I know a lot of the designers and workrooms that I work with, when we talk about them moving outside of their home, I will tell them take the amount of money that you write off his business use of home if you do or that you do anything, or the rent that you think it's going to be or the mortgage payment that you think it's going to be, you know, assuming you buy the building, start saving it months in advance and get used to making that payment. So that then when you do move in number one, you already know that you can afford to make that payment. But like in your case, you have a stockpile of cash as capital to put into it to kind of soften that blow. I do know that some of the I'm trying to remember which one of my designers it was she ended up getting a loan in her area. Actually, it was a grant, it wasn't a loan. And they had a grant for women who wanted to open a business and you know, within the certain parameters, they just gave them money. No, it wasn't huge amounts. But even 2,3,5 thousand dollars here and there would help with displays it helps for something. So you know, I think that's another point is to look at the SBA loans like you did look at your own ability. Do you buy the building? Do you rent the building? There's a lot that goes into those conversations. Do you have some money stockpiled in advance? Do you have a budget? You know, what do you do when their budget overruns, you then have some other decision points and you've had to hit every single one of these things. And it's been a lot of decision making. It's been it's been a lot of having confidence in yourself and your team and in your ability to produce. How have you have you had any struggle with any of that, especially when you the budget showed up double of what you thought someone's like when you're building the house, they always tell you whatever you think you're coming in at, you know, you can add 20% or whatever I'm 100% would make most people go In this day and age with the cost of lumber, and you know, we're about 35 to 50%, in some cases, so, but did you have that gut check moment, Sarah, where you're like, I'm just going to, I'm not using your numbers. Let's say that you thought, I'm going to build this place out for 100,000. And now it's going to cost 200,000. Did you have that moment of? Oh, okay, let me step back. I knew I could do it for this now, what is it going to take at this higher rate? How can I make that money back? How do I need to adjust my plan? Or did you just put on blinders and say, go for just running? And let's hope it all works out? And how did you manage that?
Sarah Walker 35:37
There was a little bit of both. I wanted to throw up. And then I were just like, well, I signed the lease for five years. Here we are.
Michele 35:44
Yeah, I'm this, I'm this far into it, you might as well go.
Sarah Walker 35:47
Exactly. So it was a lot of confidence, I really believe that I can do this. And I really believe that there's a need in the market for this type of space. And this type of service. And I know that once, basically, I built the dream showroom that I wish I would have had for the last 10-15 years. And I knew enough about other designers and their experiences, and builders and their experiences to say, I'm solving a lot of pain points, we have a couple different design districts. And they're scattered. Like, for example, Ann Saks is one of my very favorite tile vendors, and they are a standalone showroom on the other end of Seattle from a handful of them or the more design district area in Seattle. And so to take a client to an Saks, you're making basically a commitment for one day, you're going to go there, if you don't find what you need there, you then can go another day to other design district and shop, you know, five or six tile showrooms. And some of those have announced that with COVID, they're moving to different locations. So it's really starting to look like a scatterplot of where you need to go just to get title. And I felt like that was so inefficient, for my time to, you know, go shop at these different showrooms. Because you know, you do need to touch and feel. And my clients weren't interested, they weren't interested in driving for several hours. And so I would go to the showrooms pack a bag of you know, 50 pounds of tile, and take it to their house. And then sometimes I had one experience where the lady was like, oh, since we last met, I saw this picture on Pinterest, or Instagram, and I want to actually go with this. And I was like, I don't have anything in my bag. That is anything like that at all, you know, so I had nothing to present for the meeting because she had completely changed directions. And then I, you know, did the same thing. We did it a couple times. And you know, it got to the point where I was like this is this is ridiculous. You don't want to go to the showrooms, but yet you keep changing your mind. And so, you know, that's part of the impetus behind the showroom was if a client wants to see multiple things, let them see multiple things, provide that experience where they really know what their options are. And they absolutely love what they find. And creating that space was really key. So it's, it's a combination of interesting things that kind of led to this point. Well, it's kind of like when they say if you're going to buy a gift for somebody buy something that you would like. I mean, as long as you're not a weirdo because then we try not to be a weirdo. Amen.
Michele 38:42
Right? Well, and my sweet husband, I'm not going to call him a weirdo on the podcast, but he likes graphic tees like dad joke graphic tees, I'm not a fan of them. I'm not a fan of him on me or on him. But I love him enough for after almost 40 years that I just like let him do it and just move on. But so hopefully he won't buy me a graphic T, but the same thing they say you mean it when you think about business and marketing we're not trying to is Oh gosh, and book, book solid, Microsoft solid? Yeah, my goal was his name. I'll think about it in a minute. One of his things is it sells is not trying to twist somebody's arm to get them to buy or take what you have. It's about solving a problem and providing the answer to what they already need. So I love that you have already identified that, you know, this is what I would have wanted. I mean that's honestly that's, that's why I do what I do. Because all of the resources that I have pulled together over all of these years and all the trial and error and the buying and the selling of companies that I've done on my own. This is what I this is the roadmap. I wish I had known. These are the things I wish I had I mean, so I think that's the best way to offer what you have. Because then you know that they will others will probably need the same thing. And you've got your, your thumb, if you will on the pulse of what's happening in your area to know. So you mentioned the vendors and the builders. Have you gotten a warm reception from the designers in the community?
Sarah Walker 40:25
Yes, I actually had one yesterday that came in, and she just, she was so thrilled because she actually used to sell crystal cabinets, you know, years ago. And of course, you need a showroom to sell. And so she said, this is so phenomenal to just have one place that I can come and have the clients experience, what they're paying for with their cabinetry, they can experience the soft closed doors and drawers, they can see the dovetail construction, they can see the different types of lazy Susan’s and you know, all the different accessories, when you're going to be paying, you know, $40,000 in kitchen cabinetry, you don't want to buy from a catalog, you want to, you want to really be able to see what makes their finish unique, the factory finish is harder, it has all the different textures that you can imagine. And it just you get that quality that you wouldn't see from a picture. And so she was just thrilled to be able to, to have a place where she could bring her clients to experience everything altogether and have them feel comfortable. Have some coffee, see the appliances we have, you know, Wolf, we have LDA you know, what makes those brands special? You know, and what are the customization options, and we do, you know, gorgeous custom hoods, let them see the metal finishes, let them see a couple that are installed in different styles. So she was really thrilled. So we've gotten feedback like that across the board that, wow, this is going to make our life so much easier. And that's what I want.
Michele 42:04
And there's the trust that is built because you are a designer, you've been in this, you've had the same challenges they've had. So you know them, you've anticipated them, you've solved them, you've put the answer in front of them. That's what I was hoping that you would say is that they see you truly as that resource, not as that competition, right and understand that it actually is making their job easier.
Sarah Walker 42:29
And we offer, we offer the supplemental design. So if they're not Kitchen and Bath, cabinetry experts, we can handle that if they want to handle it great. We're not going to try and steal any clients. You know, that's not our goal, we really want to support them through all their projects. We're not just interested in, you know, one or two clients, we want to be able to say, you know, here's your package for cabinetry, it includes the electrical plant, the elevations, the floor plans, the renderings, you know, all of the call outs for the different finishes because it can get complicated. Here's your accessory package, you know, all those things that we just kind of take that weight off their shoulder and say, yeah, we can deliver that to you.
Michele 43:14
That's amazing. So let me ask you this then it as you know, you're still within the soft opening phase as we are recording right now you haven't had that firm? Hello Seattle, here we are. But if you were to look back even just over this last year, Sarah and your pre prep and then the preparation when you're in the middle of it, I know you said that one of the things you kind of wish you had known if you will, was about the cost of some of these items. But again, there's that chicken and egg conversation of you haven't signed the lease I'm not you're near the information, give me the information so I can sign the lease, you know, outside of that. Are there any other things in hindsight that you wish you had known or that you wish you had planned? Better, or, or differently?
Sarah Walker 44:01
No, to be honest, I feel really lucky because I was working in that Nordstrom space for seven years and really understood the importance of relying on vendors and creating those really long time friendships with a lot of those vendors and, and still calling on them today. Even you know some of them have changed to residential sector. You know, the guy that installed my carpet for you know, 300 Nordstrom stores, he got me carpet for my showroom. You know, just those kinds of relationships are so key. And I don't know how to you know, kind of say it but working in multiple different areas of design, made it so that I had a well rounded roster of vendors to pull from that are willing to support me and be great partners. So I don't know what I would have done if I didn't have the time at Nordstrom to really, you know, have a big name company backing me. But I think there's a lot to be said for working for someone else. And having that experience with a big company or, you know, even a small design firm working for someone else. Before going out on your own. I did both and, and I went change that I think that that was invaluable for getting me to where I am today. But I just have to remind myself to keep leveraging them when, you know, I get stuck on plumbing fixtures and the complexity of that you can't be an expert in everything. And then projects more successful if you rely on other experts.
Michele 45:44
So what are some of your next plans tell us where you're going next.
Sarah Walker 45:50
So the next step will be once hopefully in August when you know, some of our custom barstools and things come in to do a really great professional photoshoot, and get the videographer in to do some marketing with the showroom and with some voiceover work about, you know, why partner with us what we can offer the design community and the building community. And just, I'm not, I'm so happy with where I am right now. And the things I have in place, that I'm not looking to scale anymore. At this time, I'm just looking to reach out what you've already done. I just, you know, enjoy those projects that come in. We're trying to stay really local right now and support the local builders and designers. And, you know, just be there be that fixture in the community. I anticipating you know that we'll be in a space for about 10 years at least.
Michele 46:53
Well, really, I would say my next big goal for you is to scale those revenues coming in to make payments. And I realize scaling by building or not scaling by necessarily hiring but we do want those people to start coming in and purchasing and that that's kind of the focus for you right now is to get in there and have people come in and like you said, not only be a light in the community, but to have something to offer. And Sarah, is there anything else that you can think of that if other designers are out there, and they're listening to this and they're thinking, have a similar dream? to scale my business or to pivot my business and change things? Is there anything else that maybe we haven't covered that you think you wish you would have heard before you took that leap?
Sarah Walker 47:39
I always enjoy the advice about niching and playing to your strengths and finding what really makes you happy when you're doing your work. I love that analogy about the velvet rope and letting,
Michele 47:57
Michael Port, that's his name.
Sarah Walker 47:59
Yeah, letting people to work with you that check those boxes for you and that are your ideal client, I think is so vital, because that's when I feel the most fulfilled as a designer, I feel like I'm excited to get up and, and help people. And I get that fulfillment. And rather than it kind of sucking the life out of me when it's not my ideal client. And I think that's one thing I wish I would have known sooner that I can say no, even if I'm not super, super busy. Because it drags me down. And it makes it so that when the ideal client comes along, I don't I don't have the bandwidth that I'd like to give them. So that has always been something I think about when I'm meeting with clients for the first time.
Michele 48:45
It's interesting that you say that too. On The Designer's Inner Circle call this week, one of the designers shared that almost, I think a little bit embarrassed way that she she recently wrapped up her education in interior design, and felt like she needed to offer all of these things. But her heart was driving her to Kitchen and Bath saying but I love kitchen bath but I felt like I need to be selling all this product and sell me all this. And every designer and including myself on that call said to her No. Go do what you love. If you love Kitchen and Bath go to kitchen, it is totally cool. You don't have to be out there trying to sell 14 sofas, go to kitchen and bath. If sofas show up later down the line do it. But nobody's number one. Nobody's expecting us to be experts on everything, even if it is just within the interior design industry. And do what you love to do, especially when you're starting out especially when you're branching out into something new. Because Listen, you would agree with this. I'm sure there's plenty we don't know even within the area that we love. Exactly keep us challenged and moving forward. So don't feel like you got to bite off the You know, the whole thing and do it all at once. So I love that it's I mean, it's so true to life. We seriously had that conversation yesterday. Fine, continue. And here's the other thing. I think it's interesting. I think sometimes when we're first starting, we think I'll start with what I love. And then over time we start feeling we should. And I think this is really kind of the permission to say, we don't have to have so many shoulds it's what do you still enjoy and what and maybe you what you enjoy now is different than what you enjoyed three to five years ago, it's okay to say no to something so that you have that capacity, as you mentioned, to say yes to something else.
Sarah Walker 50:40
Right, right. And chasing, you know, whatever, so and so says will make you more money just will run you ragged, and leave you burned out. And I think there's so much to be said, for, for depth instead of breath. And you can become an expert, and you can be known in your field for if it's kitchen and bath. And that passion shines through. People will see that and they'll be excited to work with you. I totally agree.
Michele 51:06
Well, Sarah, thank you so much for taking time out to share with me and with all the listeners about how you've chosen to scale about some of the ups and the downs and the challenges. And I just want to tell you, I'm so super proud of you, I you know, I've had the blessing really, of watching you of looking into the plans that you're creating and reviewing those plans within for you. And I know you are going to just rock it in your area, I have no doubt I had no doubt from the first time we started talking, you're super sharp businesswoman. And I'm just cheering for you all the way across the United States. And I am planning at some point to jump on a plane because I when it comes to that space, I think that's amazing.
Sarah Walker 51:52
Thank you.
Michele 51:52
And just thank you for sharing and being so honest about some of the challenges and the successes that you've had as you've pulled this together.
Sarah Walker 52:01
Well, Michele, you're one of those invaluable partners that I mentioned. I couldn't have done it without you. So thank you so much.
Michele 52:06
You're welcome. Have a great day. So Oh, wait, before we go, Sarah, what is the website? Where do they find you? We get it we had to know how to follow
Sarah Walker 52:13
Yes. So it's nuanceinteriors,.com, n u a, n c e interiors dot com. And that's also my Instagram handle.
Michele 52:22
Perfect. And I will put that in the show notes too. So goodness, almost like say goodbye without telling everybody how to go watch you to see all these videos and all these things you're going to be doing to inspire us. And the beautiful thing is we can be inspired no matter where we are by watching so I'm, I'm hooked. I'm there, and therefore it is I can't do and say thanks Sarah,
Sarah Walker 52:43
Take care.
Michele 52:45
Thank you, Sarah for joining us today and sharing about the importance of planning and building industry relationships. You know, Sarah offers a great example of planning, seeing a need and her location, taking a risk to step in and to solve the problem and fill the need. All of this takes systems processes, plans and intention. And these are the exact areas that we focus on in my coaching program. I personally know when I feel pulled in 10 directions I don't enjoy my work. But when I'm working in one direction with one focus, I enjoy it so much more and you can too. If you want to know more, go to my website and check out the seven figure case study. You can find that at scarletthreadconsulting.com/7-figure-case-study and you can also find it under the Resources tab. Remember great relationships create profitable opportunities, and we all know that profit doesn't happen by accident. Profit is a Choice is proud to be part of the designnetwork.org where you can discover more design maybe reaching creative listeners. Thanks for listening, and stay creative and business minded.