197: Creating Systems that Work for Your Design Business
Michele 00:00
Hello, my name is Michele, and you're listening to Profit is a Choice. I Adi Klevit that founder and CEO of Business Success Consulting Group is with me today sharing from her 25 years of knowledge and experience as a trained industrial engineer, management consultant and business executive to bring order and efficiency to organizations. We will discuss how processes improve efficiency and performance. Listen in for insight on bringing order to the chaos in your life and business. Every day, empowered entrepreneurs are taking ownership of their company financial health, and enjoying the rewards of reduced stress and more creativity. With my background as a financial software developer, owner of multiple businesses and the interior design, industry, educator, and speaker, I coach women in the interior design industry to increase their profits, regain ownership of their bottom line, and to have fun again in their business. Welcome to Profit is a Choice. Hi, Adi, welcome to the podcast.
Adi Klevit 01:13
Thank you, Michele, thank you for having me.
Michele 01:15
Oh, you are welcome. You and I met, and I've already had an awesome conversation on your podcast, which is Systems Simplified Podcast, we'll make sure we put that in the show notes, and we had so much fun talking. And I felt like we're kindred souls. And I was like, come back on my podcast. And so we got more to talk about today. So that's exciting. Before we get started, though, if you would want to share a little bit about your background and your history, and what you're currently working on and doing today.
Adi Klevit 01:47
Sure. So my history, my background is industrial engineering. That's my profession. So I'm all about processes and improvement and efficiency. And I've been doing it for over 25 years, I've done several things throughout my career, but it's all on the along the same line. And I started my current business in 2011, and the name of the business i Business Success Consulting Group. And we specialize in creating, documenting and implementing processes and procedures for businesses that are growing and scaling and also for businesses that are looking at a transition in terms of selling or merger and acquisition. And they want to have their processes documented. So we basically create business playbooks, and we help implement them for different reasons, you know, for onboarding, training new employees, helping with the retention of existing employees by having consistency by having predictability, if a business is looking at acquiring a similar business, and they want to merge, you know, it's good to have the processes documented for both etc. So, because that's those are the reasons of why we do it. And of the why basically, of the businesses. The reason why I do it is because I love to bring order into any environment, right? So I love to bring order into businesses and helping businesses grow and thrive. That's in a nutshell our history.
Michele 03:23
So I always wonder about this. For those of us that like to bring order into businesses, like I like that too, right? Do you also do that in your home?
Adi Klevit 03:35
Yes, yes. You see right here you can see the camera labels lately. Clean, organized, I love organization. I mean, I think I It helps me be more successful, it helps me be calmer. It helps me be creative. When I don't have chaos around me. And I'm not obsessive about it. You know, it's not like I have to I mean, I can adjust the environments around me so I can, it can be like the way I like it. It just it. I like organization. I like systems in all aspects of life.
Michele 04:12
My mom used to say put everything, everything has its place, like you know, if you always put it back in its place, she'll always know where it is. And the same way I get thrilled with my label maker. Like everything in folders. I like labels, I know where things are, I put them in a certain place. And I think at first I am you know, a firstborn type A so little more regimented.
Adi Klevit 04:38
So am I okay, yeah, no, so that's what we saw alike. But yeah,
Michele 04:43
exactly. And my husband is the fourth. So he's no way for
Adi Klevit 04:49
for three girls and then him so yes, four.
Michele 04:53
Okay. So my husband is the fourth boy. And then they have his parents had a fifth child which is a daughter so As a sister, but the rules and all that didn't apply to him the same way, as they were the firstborn, it's just different, right? And so I am a lot more like I used to get go. And he laughed when we first got married and made these lists of like, every six months, we have to check the, you know, the batteries on the fire detectors. And at nine months, we do this and once a year we do that. And every Monday we wash white clothes. And every Wednesday we wash towels. And he was like, What are you doing? Well, I worked full time, he worked full time, like I'm trying to structure our lives so that I don't spend all weekend having to do all these things. But I can just remember him looking at me and rolling his eyes and just laughing. And then one day, Adi, we came home, our dog had pulled our checklist off the refrigerator and ate it. My dog ate my checklist! And my husband looked at me and he's like, are you going to replace it? And I'm like, No, I'll let it go. So I've learned, like you said to adapt around me, but I do like order because then I know, I'm not wasting my time trying to find something. When I owned a drapery working. At the very beginning, I didn't think about all the things I've told the story numerous times the business started by accident, or without a plan people rang my doorbell asked me to start sewing asked her to working. But what was interesting, I've talked a lot on the podcast about financials and how I got my financials in order. But under that I've ever really shared how I got my processes and procedures in order. Um, so I'm going to share a little bit of it. And then I want to ask you questions, because I think you can broaden it out, you know, for our listeners at large. But one of the things that I realized was, I was learning to make things that were new to me. So I was creating items that were new to me. And I didn't at the time have patterns, I didn't even know about patterns. I didn't know who did it, I was drawing out the geometry and the math and figuring out myself very much engineering these window treatments by myself. And then I would realize that it might be six or eight months before anybody asked me to make that item again. And so a couple of things happened. Number one, I couldn't remember what I did, if I didn't write it down. And then I wouldn't remember how I should have adjusted it or if I should have updated it. And I caught them very quickly that it was taking me as much time to go back to figure out what I did the last time, what worked, what didn't work. And if I had just written it down while I was going and then made a if you have to do this, then do this, you know kind of notes at the bottom, I would be much faster. So that was one process that I learned very quickly that I needed to start writing down where I was, I was reinventing the wheel every single time. And then the second big process that I learned was what to do at the end of the day. Because every day my this was back before we had we're talking 22 years ago, we didn't really have like Asana and the all these tasks management people didn't use their online systems that way, it was more, keeping up with notes, right? Sticky Notes, notepads task lists, all the things. But what I realized was I was getting interrupted. And so at the end of the day, I never knew where I stopped. So every morning when I got back into the office, I had to spend 20 or 30 minutes to figure out where I had left off from the day before. So I knew where to start that day. And again, because efficiency was important. I was trying to grow my business while my kids were in school. So my time wasn't as open as it is now like nobody's here. But my husband and I so I can work whenever and however, I desire. But back then I started work as I got my kids to school, and I had to stop for some amount of time. So all of that time was so precious. And my big takeaway out of that was at the end of every day before I left my work room, I dried it down. This is what I did start here tomorrow, pick up here. So then when I came in the next morning, I see a sticky note. I knew my process it had already been written. And it told me where I was and where to go. So it was literally like almost like an Asana or Trello. Like the task management. It just was sticky notes on my desk. But it was that way of thinking so that I could keep going. And then I'll share this one last thing because I know that you will appreciate it. So my background is in information systems. And when I was learning code, oh gosh, back when I was like 19, 20 years old, we were coding in COBOL all the way back in the day, and my dad worked in it and I can remember him talking to me about databases and efficiency and why you just want to do things one time. You don't want to do it all the time. And so he was making me think about going into the kitchen to me make a meal. And his comment was, the refrigerator is the database. And if you're having to open that refrigerator for every single thing that you need to get out, as opposed to opening it, pull everything out for the menu and shut the door, you're being very inefficient. It's costing you money like, but that was a visual and he made me, I say me, but he, you know, he was sitting there having me physically do this in front of him open and shut the refrigerator. So I can see the ridiculousness of running back and forth across the kitchen. And I've never, ever, ever 30 plus years later, I've never forgotten that going back and forth to refer to the refrigerator is just an example of not having a good process, not thinking ahead and not planning being inefficient. And there being a cost to that. So that has been kind of my, from just that creative aspect, as my business has grown really understanding why those processes are so important. Now, I know you work with creative firms, and you also work with companies that are, I would say more maybe production or a systems in general, how do you see systems fitting into creative environments? And give me your thoughts on that?
Adi Klevit 11:16
Yeah, first of all, what a great story, it sounds like he sounds like a great man. And just like, it's absolutely great analogy that that we'll use in terms of that refrigerator and getting the food and preparing your head. And having a list and all of that it's great, great examples. So, you know, the way that I view it is that processes are needed and processes or processes, right? I think it's more a question of or it's, for the answer to the question is more like how to creative? Look at that. And I think it's more overcoming that mindset than to say, well, creative people don't need processes, right? I mean, you are so creative. If I mean, I'm seeing you now on camera, and your office is just beautiful. Right. But that's your creativity, that's your orderliness, that's the, you know, the aesthetic part of it, but you still understand the importance of processes, because you won't be able to produce what you're doing without having that. So, in my opinion, from working with, many creative architects, you know, marketing agencies, designers, you name it, you know, and working also with contractors and manufacturers, and you know, a specialty trade contractors, doctor, so I work we work with any industry, right? But the creative ones are the ones that will say, well, we don't need processes, because it will stop our creativity. Not all everybody, of course, it's not a generality, but I hear it quite a bit from the creative side. And you and I had that conversation as well, when you were a guest on my podcast, is, is that true? I mean, and I really don't think so I think the processes are important. So you can have more time to create, you know, just like the example that you gave, you know, if you wasting time, trying to do a same thing that you could follow a process, but try to figure it out every single time, you have less time to create. So I think that it's a matter of creating processes that are flexible enough, in order to give framework but also allow the creativity allow you to be creative. So now here's the thing that when creative people think about processes, they think that it's going to block the creativity, because he's going to tell them, it's going to be very regimented, in terms of like, you know, they want to have the creativity of choosing the color that they would like or choosing the pattern or choosing something, that's great, because that is the creativity part of it. However, there are certain things that you will do that no matter what you have to repeat and do it right especially like let's say you're an interior designer that is designing a house, of course, you know, the choosing the fabric and choosing the colors and all that when that has to be, that's a creative thing that you are not going to document how to do it, but when to do it. Like right now I'm working as an example with interior. It's a big, build a design build company. And right now we're working on their interior design and their selection process before they start building. And they have a very specific process, you know, we flowchart it they know there's a flowchart, you know, in terms of like you meet with the interior first and then you meet with the electrical and then you meet with this one. And then you meet with this one, you have those meetings and here's the budget, all the points we have to cover. So that's a process, what you cover and how you discuss and whatever you show to that particular person doesn't have to be documented. That's the creative part. So I think it's really understanding that balance.
Michele 14:53
Yeah, I think the balance is key. I mean, we hear balance is key and everything but it's really true in processes. I think the other thing thing that is important to note is we all have a process, whether we recognize it as that or not, if I've mentioned that before, we have a process, even if we choose not to document it, you know, even the creation of my podcast, I see it as a creative endeavor. Because I don't have a script every single time, you know, yes, I kind of script out bullet point, when I'm doing a solo, I'm thinking through it. And I have questions. And I have things that I've researched when we go to record. But we're also recording a very normal conversation, it's unscripted. And so that is a very creative process. However, I've got a very structured process on how you get on my calendar, and what information we need from you, and how we're going to get on a zoom call. And here's what you need to have in front of you. And you know, how I record the files and where I put the files and we go into Airtable, and I tell the next person in the process, I've done everything I'm supposed to do, everything's in its place, you go do this, and this person over here is managing creating all of the social media in this person's putting out is that you know what I mean, there are all these processes that are involved in getting a podcast out the door. But all of that allows me in the moment that I'm with you to just have a conversation without having to worry about all those pieces, I know, if I get this part, right for now, everybody else can pick up and do what they need to do. And so it actually gives me freedom within our our conversation, to just be in that moment. And it's the same way, whether it's design or whether it's anything else,
Adi Klevit 16:39
I think that's a key word is giving you the freedom, you know, it's the key, yeah, freedom to do what you want to do, and also what you're good at, because, you know, I know, you are an expert on how to make the business more profitable. And I think that's the tie between the processes, and that what we just talked about, and also being profitable, because if you as the business owner, are doing things that you can actually pay somebody 20 bucks an hour or 15 bucks an hour to do, but you're doing it yourself, that's not going to increase your profitability, it's going to hurt you tremendously. But if you don't have a process, you end up doing it and you end up doing it, you know, five times less efficient than you could because there is no process. So you're actually losing money and hurting yourself.
Michele 17:24
Yeah, I think the more that I document process, the more I realized there are other people that I can hire. I mean, truly, I think that is one of the things that keeps us from hiring is because nothing's documented. And then we think I don't know how to tell them what to do. But the more that we write things down, and even with the people that are on my team, I'll say to them, are you the right person to be doing this? Or do we need to step out again, like, you know, and I mean, it gives us a chance to really look at, is it the right person in the right seat doing that work? Is it what they're great at? So let me ask you this it then what are some of the areas of the business we've I've talked with other people on the podcast before about creating processes, and you know how to write them and capture them. But I want to focus with you more on what are some of the areas that we should write processes for, I totally get that we should write them for, you know, our main workflow, if you will, like if you're a design build firm, or if you're a designer, or if you're going out and doing direct, you know, window treatment, sales, or window treatment, fabrication, or upholstery or whatever, that is the main thing. But there are plenty of other areas in our company that we should really consider making a bit more process driven. What are some of those areas? And then let's dig in and look at each and maybe see what are some processes that we could create?
Adi Klevit 18:45
For sure. So yes, you're right, we should definitely write the client journey or the customer journey, you know, that's for sure has to be there. And it's usually referred to as, let's say, the lead could lead to cash, right. So all the process from the beginning to the end, making sure it's a smooth journey. But then there's all the supporting departments that go into, you know, it will be part of that client journey, for sure. But there's sometimes been neglected in terms of documenting and one of them is HR. So onboarding, training new employees, employee management, which include the benefits, you know, the, the discipline, the evaluation, or the also the employee appreciation, you know, the fun part is, well, even, you know, personnel files, I mean, all those things have to go under HR management. So HR is very important. Obviously, finance, you know, how you pay your bills, so it'll be invoicing, paying bills, so AR AP, the bookkeeping itself, like what is your cadence of generating reports? What should be on that report? How do you do bookkeeping if there is a specific way how you do that? So that's really important as well, I think first profit first. That's right. So how do you write?
Michele 20:04
How are you going to do those distributions? Are you giving bonuses, all of that? Right? All of that?
Adi Klevit 20:10
It's 100%. Yes, yes. And then, you know, business development, that's very important as well. So that is, you know, the client enters into the client journey through that, but what is your knowledge? What are the things that you're looking at when you do business development? What works? And what does? And how do you do it? Right. So business development is really important. Sales is very important. Sales and marketing, I just got off the phone just before a phone call before this one on a zoom call with a client. And we realized that we did not, you know, we had the operations, then the sales, the, but we didn't do much on the marketing. So we started documenting their marketing processes. So that that is definitely important as well, the internal how you run internally run your operation? I mean, how are you in the company? How do you run it? So let's say you're doing meetings, leadership team meetings, like how do you do? What's the agenda? How do you do that? How do you mentor new leaders? You know, just so there's all those things as well, it is part of your culture and how you do so that is very important as well. Did I miss anything?
Michele 21:18
No, I think you hit it all. So let me ask this. What do you what do you see when working with this broad array of companies, but then multiple industries, right. And I love that idea. Because we're not just focused on here's what I see with interior design. And we can sometimes become very myopic when we work in one industry. And that is actually one reason that I constantly read about things outside of interior design and window treatments, and very creative because I'm looking for patterns across other industries. So you have that view. What do you see as some of the either the number one, number two, or the top couple of areas of pushback, to even digging into some of this? Is it the overwhelm? Is it that I don't have time? Because when I'll tell you, though, I'll tell you my thought when you were listening, I thought most people would be willing to document most of the HR things, right, I get it. Most would be willing to document when they want their some of their reporting done for finance. I could see them saying yeah, here, we're going to post on Monday and post on Wednesday. And here's what our sales process is like, I can even see them going as far as we're going to do team meetings on Monday. And here's our agenda. But the one that I wrote down and circled, as one of the biggest areas that most people that I work with, do not have huge plans for is business development. That's right. They don't
Adi Klevit 22:51
That's right. Because they're probably also feel that they can really systematize it, but and
Michele 22:56
they think that it's not they they it is eat. And I say they I've been there too, it's easy to think that it's not revenue generating, because it's not revenue generating in that moment. But it produces revenue generating opportunities, because we're developing the business. So what do you see the same kinds of things that I'm seeing? And what are some of the other layers or textures of that? That you see? Yeah,
Adi Klevit 23:23
I mean, I agree with you. Because you know, business development is not, it's usually not a straightforward. Okay, this is the process. But I'll tell you, he was actually a designer. I mean, it was a creative agency that we worked with. And the owner was selling the business to one of the key employees. And they realize that all the business development, the rainmaking the business developing is in the owners head. And if the owner leaves, the business basically has no value because there will be no more business because he's the only one who has been doing it for years. And what do we do now? So we got referred into that business to actually extract that information from the owners heads so we can actually start creating the processes for it. And it was a lot of fun because we had to create it right there was no there was the extraction of the information but then asking why do you do it that way? Because think about it like let's say you right now listening to us, right? You're doing business development, you go to networking events, you part of networking groups, you know, you know, people you know that when you pick up the phone and start talking and business comes in, we're what is it? Like how do you do it? And trying to document it and put it into create it and put it into an actual communicate? Double process. It's a process by itself, but it's a lot of fun. I mean, I had to do it myself because I hired one of my first hires was a business development person. The reason being is because we got introduced and she had that personality and I was like, wow, you know, she will be great at that. I have to make it into business. Developing percent and but I had to teach her what I do. And I go, You know what it can be taught, if it can be taught, if it can be put into a process something is wrong, because there is no way that, you know, you are the only one in this entire world that knows how to do something, right. So it's challenging to actually figure out what you do, but it's great. And I would challenge our listeners, you know, think about what you do for business development, and try to figure out how you do it and if there is a common denominator, and that common denominator is a process.
Michele 24:02
So one of the things I love to do when I even just think about business development is defined what that even is for my company, what is business development? Right? Right. And for me, it's about taking time to work on the processes and the systems that underpin my entire company that make it work. And so even when I do process development days, or I scheduled like, that's a big deal to me, my process is to schedule, this development time on the calendar. And then I also keep a running list of the things that I need to look at during that business development time. So that when I go into it, my processes, look at the list, put them in order priority order on what needs to be attacked, or what you need to do during that time. Because if not, I've found myself going into a business development time that I set aside without an agenda. Because I don't really wouldn't think to create an agenda for myself, right? So then I go and I get there. And it's the same kind of thing that I described a few minutes ago, it's like walking in the office and not knowing what I'm going to do. I spend 30 minutes trying to figure it out. And then I get pulled down the rabbit trail of email. And then my business development time is done on my calendar, and I got nothing accomplished. But when I created just the process for how to put things on a task list for business development, so that on Fridays at 9am, that's where I started. And here's the priority order, even going in sometimes on a Thursday, perhaps, and creating the order. So I can just start on Friday, even that freed me up to be creative on business development. within that timeframe. Choosing once a year, I have a podcast out there taking your business on vacation, here are the things I'm going to do when I go on vacation with my business that are business development oriented. So just even kind of creating a time and a place but an agenda. I mean, I think we can sometimes miss so much. I was having a conversation with a designer yesterday. And we were talking about every meeting that she has with her client, she has started creating an agenda so that they know here's the time we're together here are the two to three key things that we need to decide while we're together to keep this schedule going. And so if we do not decide these three things, it's going to push the next thing. And then in that meeting, we're setting up here's the next opportunity client touch call, email or meeting and then having an agenda, even if it's just a couple of bullet points. And I know that seems kind of maybe like extra work. But it's so amazing how just two or three bullet points, which seems like it's not even a process. But it's a process to have an agenda before you walk into a meeting,
Adi Klevit 28:18
oh, 100% I create agenda for almost every meeting that I have, I mean, with a client, right, because I want to keep on task, I want to make sure that we are continuing to read it we are progressing. And it's not a bad idea to also have an agenda for other kinds of meetings because it's like just make sure that the meeting is not for the sake of a meeting but there is for the sake of actually finishing and getting to an end result and an end goal. So I completely agree with you. I think when I was mentioning business development in a way you and I meant different things. But I think it's it's i You gave me a great idea because basically your business developer is developing the business like working on the business right I mean, I was using business development is like more than networking and creating new leads and creating of new what comes before sales, right? I mean sales from a sales process itself and the business development, the
Michele 29:10
business network or the business funnel, if you will, yes, yeah,
Adi Klevit 29:14
Exactly. But both of them apply and I think what you said is so important, like when you want to work on your business, it's kind of like okay, if you block we all heard about calendar, you know, time blocking on the calendar, so we block a few hours let's say on Friday afternoon to work on the business but if you don't structure it those four hours we'll go answering emails, you know, or doing whatever but you have to have like specific tasks and that's where I feel that we need a business plan not a business plan in order we talked about it in my on my podcast, right? Yeah. So we have to have a plan not not a plan for the banker and the boy the banker wants to see but a plan of what you're okay, what's the strategy how you're going to accomplish that and have a step by step on how to so whenever When you sit down and work on your business, it has to fit off that plan. And then you're all going in the same direction.
Michele 30:07
I remember when my kids would come home with homework, and you could tell if the teacher had assigned busy work. Or if the teacher had assigned just enough that they would get the concept, understand it, master it and move on. Like you could tell, right? Like, let's do 45 math problems with the numbers one, two, and three, let's add them in, like every combination we could, like you just knew. And that's why even with the clients that I work with, I'll say to them, the work that I'm going to give you to do, or that I'm going to help you to do is not meant to be busy work. So that's why having these processes, it helps us kind of weed out what's just busy work, what do we really not need? What does it enhance the process, what actually hinders it, or makes it more convoluted or more cumbersome. The goal is to create processes that are as easy and as streamlined as possible to get the outcome that we desire, within the timeframe that we desire not to make us feel important, because we have a 15 page dossier on something that we could have captured in, you know, three or four sentences. And I think that's what's so important is, when we think process, I think it's easy, especially if we're new to that, it's easy to almost think that it's 10 times more than maybe it needs to be. And I think you mentioned this on when we were talking on your podcast, about start with just like the high bullet points, like the high and then you can work your way down into the more detailed processes as necessary. But I think the challenge sometimes is we start so in the weeds, with every last click of the mouse to the left and to the right. And every day, we get so bogged down that right, forget it, it's going to take me six months to document something that I can go do in three minutes. And we need to look at it a different way.
Adi Klevit 32:01
Yeah, absolutely. I agree. So you know, it's kind of like when you like a recipe for food for your favorite dish, and you have to start with going to your refrigerator example, you have to start by buying the ingredients, you know, if you don't do that first, then you're not going to never get to actually a final product. And it's even before the ingredients, you know, you have to think where it fits overall in the meal. Otherwise, you will have a very disastrous meal, right. I mean, I actually went one time we, we didn't plan it, there was a party and you know, this is you could just bring your own your favorite dish, right. And it was just a mishmash of like Italian food and Turkish food and somebody bought like, you know, I don't know, it's just like different mash in French, something. And it was just like all different cuisines that didn't go well together. It's a problem. And that reminded me, that's my example that I like to give. Because if you don't have a plan, and if you don't like map the process to begin with, in terms of like, okay, how all the parts going to work together, you're gonna have a mishmash of like, maybe delicious dishes by themselves. But if you put it on one plate, it's gonna be it's not going to be very flavorful, right? And they don't complement each other. That's right, and as an assault to the tastebuds it is it? Absolutely. So you have to think with like, start with the bigger picture of like, what will go where, when? And then what are the ingredients? And then what are the instructions in order to make it in sequence? But also you don't you know, you're talking to people that know how to cook, right? I mean, this is not a beginner a book as an example. So you don't have to go into all the weeds, you know how to do it and how not to do it. And now I have Okay, so use three tablespoons of butter. Okay, so what you need to do take the butter out of the refrigerator and add it right here on the on this and melt it. So in order to melt it No, no, you just say melted butter, you know, we know how to do it.
Michele 33:53
Alright, so let me ask this because this is something that comes up quite often when I'm working with my clients, and I'd love to get your take on it. When they have an organization, let's say that either has not had very well defined processes, where they're starting to rethink and redefine their processes. What are some good ways to get team member employee buy in to the check because change creates discomfort. Some people take it very personally, if they've created the process, and now it's being shifted or changed or modified. Some people think that you're dumbing down their job. I mean, they start to worry, right? They get nervous. How have you found is a good way to assuming that none of those things are true. We're just trying to be more efficient and effective for the process. How do we get team buy in what have you seen that it's worked really well for that?
34:51
You know, I actually did a whole podcast and I wrote a blog on it. It's called How to Get Your Processes Followed By All right, so basically how to get them implemented. So then I'll send you a copy after the podcast. So you can take a look at it. But basically, the first thing that needs to happen is a change of mind. It has to have agreement from the leadership team from the top from the owner, right? So the owner has to really be committed to the change. And it has to be communicated. So it communicates from the owner down to the leadership team, and from the leadership team to every single employee. Another thing that I found very successful is when we start engaging on a project, we do a survey to find out why processes and procedures, and what do What does, each individual would like to see changed. If they had, if they can change any of their processes, or add to any of the processes or edited? How would they benefit them?
Michele 35:53
Oh, that's good. So going down at the very bottom level and saying, this process, if you were to put it under a microscope, right, what are the things that you would love to see changed? Or where do you see it being broken? Like, that's an ongoing conversation, but to be very pointed in that process improvement plan, asking them upfront
Adi Klevit 36:11
Why and the why behind it right? Or what? How would that benefit them? Because it can benefit the business owner differently that it can benefit one of the employees? Right? But if it is there, why? Because that's what's going to get the bind, because we listened. And we understood and we do it, right. As an example, I was working with a company, and we were documenting their sales process. And I was working with estimators that were have been in the company for like, you know, 20, 30 years, they didn't, they're making great money, they're selling great asset for the company, why would they want to even document you know, why would they even want to change? So I asked the question, you know, if we, if you had well documented processes and procedures in the company, what what benefit? Do you expect to get out of it? Or what? Like, how can we then help you on this, and they actually almost unanimously said that the problem that we're encountering is the past between the sales and the operations, you know, when they actually sell the pass of the customer from sales to operation was very loose in those construction companies. So if you sell if you go and estimate, then you sell a project, then you pass it on to the construction manager. You know, the either the customers were not called on time, or there was some loss in translation, there was, you know, there was they
Michele 37:38
Wo they didn't feel like the service translated, the caring for the client, that journey dropped off, right?
Adi Klevit 37:45
Correct. Okay, so we said, Okay, I mean, that's one thing that they wanted to improve. So that was definitely part of our process improvement. And then when they saw that, that there is the transparency of what's going on in sales, transparency of what's going on in operations, and they can see then how they can dovetail together and work together, it gave them a peace of mind, and it was actually solved the problem of that disconnect. So it's getting the why it is also utilizing it, you know, you lead by example, and you create a habit, you know, it's kind of like with Profit First when you know, when you just first start, you go, this is strange, I've never done it, how can I do it and pay myself and I'm going to transfer all this money? Well, maybe I should. Now you have to have make a habit out of it. Right? You have to be able to make a habit out of using processes. So it's discipline as well. So if somebody comes to you and ask you, well, how should I do that? Instead of the intuitive easy answer, let me show you because it will take me two minutes, the answer should be well, let's check our processes and procedures and see how it's being done. So they know that by the time when they ask you again, and again, you're going to refer them back through the processes and procedures. So there will probably look at it first, you know, because you're making it part of the culture. Another thing is also to not
Michele 39:03
Stop right there for a minute, because I think that is key. And I really want to put a big exclamation behind that Adi because in our environments, sometimes they're smaller teams and smaller groups, you know, three people, five people, 10 people. And so sometimes it is very easy to go to that owner or go to that manager and just keep asking, instead of digging and finding and looking. I know in software development, our big goal was always to try out when I worked in support, try to get people not to call us. The way we got him not to call us was to try to document it. The more we documented the less that would call, the more we would have the same call with the same question we could see the did either wasn't documented or it wasn't documented clearly, or it wasn't documented in place where they can find it. And so when we have the owners of these companies being so inundated with question, question, question, question that should raise that flag in this culture that you're talking about. thought that perhaps we need a process, and then not being so quick to answer it. But being quick to point back to the process, go check the process so that you are building kind of that habit, that referral habit of referring back to a support document, instead of going to ask a person. And so I just want to, I think that's true.
Adi Klevit 40:20
That's very true, very dizzy. It is an a key, also what you said in terms of like, where to find it. So use the process documentation software. So it's easy to find, write it in such a way that it's very easy to understand. So it's not 200 Like I interviewed somebody on my podcast is a great guy. He owned a business for 30 something years and then sold it. And he's the visionary says, you don't want me to write processes, like the first SOP I rode was 200 pages long. Oh, my gosh. So it's going I mean, he probably was exaggerating, but that's right. So but it's still you know, it's the idea of like, write it in such a way in, that people can actually understand it, right? Use it in order to resolve issues. So but to your point, it's either if the if there is an issue, and then you analyze, or is there a process? If there is a process? Was it used? If it was not used will write a process? If it was used? Do we need to revise it? Or is it something not understood? You know, so we have that decision tree? You know, all those aspects of like, have it accessible, use it, refer to it, revise it on a regular basis include everyone as to their wives. I mean, I think those are the key components. And you know, in sometimes, and it just happened to me, this week, one of my clients told me, next, somebody was on a sales call, you know, and they asked the sales manager, like, how do I do this in this now, in this case, you want to get the sale, you're not going to tell the employee in the middle now go and, you know, go and look at the processes and procedures, right? So what you do is you answer the questions, so they can go back to the customer that they put on hold, but then after circle back and say, Okay, let's take a look at it, I saw that there is something here that you didn't understand. Let's pull up our procedures. Let's read it again. Does that answer your question? Okay, I just want to make sure that it doesn't, you know, so next time you know where to look, or you can look, so again, it's that education and that support and making it part of the culture.
Michele 42:24
I think that's a good point. And even in my business, when we've had moments that things have broken down, or weren't working properly, we would solve it at the moment for whoever was on the other side, right? Who had the need or the ask? And then we would go back and say, did we have this documented? Do we need to document it? Where do we need to keep it? Or do we need to update. And I think that's one of the hard parts with processes. I know, I've mentioned this on other podcasts before as well. I really liked things, I like to do them, and I like to put them away. But that's not these are living breathing documents, and living breathing processes, and we're constantly changing and improving, and doing things differently or better. And just keeping in mind that it is somewhat repetitive it is, you know, we are going to revisit it, it is that continual improvement process that we need to consider? Because if not, it starts to get weighty and frustrating. And then it becomes this, this mindset of well, I'm going to have to change it anyway. So why would I even bother? And we don't need to have that mindset, because that's going to keep us stuck. So instead, it's why don't we start. And then as we as we go, let's just keep adding to it, just keep it up to date. And as we shift and change, let's just document it. You made the point earlier about somebody coming to you maybe wanting to sell whether to a key team member or you know, an external sell company or whatever. And I was talking with John Warrillow, he was on my podcast with the build to sell radio. And he was talking, we were talking about processes and documenting. And that it can if you have nothing documented it can easily if you're trying to do it yourself, at the same time that you're trying to work in your company and own the company, it can easily be a three to five year process to get it to get everything in a place that you can sell it. You know, from a financial standpoint and internal document, it is a lot. So a day if that is the case. Doesn't that lend itself to make us understand the importance of why we should at least start right now. Whether we are when you're in or five years in, even if we're not looking to sell the company just for the years that we have left to ease the burden of what to do when to do it and haven't we done this before it kind of thing?
Adi Klevit 44:50
Oh for sure. For sure. It's like preparing for the future but it's also the near future because if you ever if you want to be more than just a solopreneur if you actually want to have employees if you actually want to have even sub contractors, so you want to have somebody there helping you, even a personal assistant, you know, one of the smartest thing that I've done was start documenting my processes. And one of the ways that I've done it is recording like, you know, whenever I do something, I start recording it. And then I had a whole library of recordings. So then when I hired my first personal assistant, I was able to give them my recordings and have them translated into actual reading written procedures, and they knew what to do otherwise, how would have ever trained them.
Michele 45:34
That's a good point. That's what I did as well, I started recording things on loom, and on Zoom. And then I gave them out and I'm like, here's just what I did. Sometimes, we would just attach the, you know, the recording with the written material. And sometimes we would just turn it into a written process, but it's so much easier, and we just don't have to make it as convoluted. We just have to start somewhere we do actually, it's actually freeing to, you know, I don't I still don't I mean, I'll be 100% transparent, every single thing and my business is still not 100% documented, because my business is constantly growing and changing. However, we try to write as much as we can, while we're going while we're changing. We have things set up in Asana, we've got, you know, document set up and air table and processes there. We've got them in the different places that makes sense for the the activity that we're doing. But it is a constant ongoing, and part of the company that we just have to do.
Adi Klevit 46:39
Absolutely, absolutely. I can tell you inspire me in terms of that checklist you had on your fridge. I want to I'm going to create it because I'm kind of, as you said, we all have a process. So I do have a process. It is just not written and that's I think, create sometimes lack of communication between family members, right because they you know, expect something or something else is being done, but I love that idea. So I'm going to create it and
Michele 47:07
Create your refrigerator list. I'll give you a couple others. It's kind of funny. So both my boys from Boy Scouts, and they were both in marching band, they were in drumline. And so they would have like these events that they had to go to they went camping at a minimum once a month, backpacking for 15 days in Cimarron, New Mexico, they canoed the Allagash river. So they went on a lot of high adventure type, weekends and excursions. Well, the thing about boy scouts that I liked at the time was it was you don't do it for them, you let them figure it out. So we also used to have a camper and we would go camping couple of times a month. Well, I got tired every other week, when we were going to go away for the weekend trying to figure out what were we going to pack in what were we going to take. So I made a packing list. These are all the things that stay in the camper, these are all the things that stay in our bins and this the things we need to pull together, I had created all of our menus because you couldn't leave all your food and camp or be at written. So I had here are the menus, here's every single thing that we need, everything was already written. So when we would go camping, I would just go out to my Word document and just print it. And I could follow it and pull everything together. And I could pack it, I didn't have to stop and think about it. So I taught the boys how to do that. And they had their if they're going to go backpacking, this was the list if they were backpacking in the summer, add this, if you're backpacking in the winter, add this, if you are going canoeing or kayaking, or some water event, you need this. And so they learned and they would just come in and they would print their checklist and their sheets, and they could do it all by themselves. And I never had to step in and do one thing for them with that. And it was beautiful. Because they could then come in and say, Hey, mom, like this time I needed ABC and XYZ, let's add that to the list. So we would get online, we would add it to their list and next time they would have it. But it created independence for them, which is the same thing. If we were to look at our business that we want our employees to have, it empowered them to pack their bag without my help. They were educated and equipped. They knew what they needed and where it was. And they could do it. I encouraged them if they got it wrong. You know, and maybe at the very beginning, I would check over it and spot check and then after that didn't have to do it anymore. Because they also were the ones suffering the consequences if they forgot their sleeping bag, not me. So I could promise they would remember it the next time. Right? But it was that same kind of habit of if you're going to do it more than once and it is going to be something that is going to be repeated, especially if it's repeated in the short term. Write it down. If nothing else is a checklist. It doesn't have to be like you said the full detail. Get the butter cut on that. You know line two is just melt the butter but they have At that, so we have actually implemented a lot of those things just in our home menu prep. If we think about that, that's a process that we create. Here's the menu for the week, we're gonna go by all the things, we might chop up some veggies in advance, you know, whatever. But just thinking about process, if when we consider it, and how we can use it in our home life, it'll make it not so scary in our business life.
Adi Klevit 50:25
I agree. I know if our listeners some listeners that are listening to us right now saying those two women are crazy. No, I would say tried, really tried. I mean, see, and don't go overboard. You know, find an area in your life that you feel like you want to bring order to, right. I mean, you know, right now, think about your life in general and go what area of your life would you like to bring order to? Maybe you're a busy mom, and you know, you're spending so much time in the morning, getting the kids ready, you're driving them around to different activities, you know, whatever it is, and try that. Try to see what are the actions that you actually do in a repetitive way, and write a checklist, even handwritten on the computer, wherever, just write a checklist. And next time that you're going to do that activity, pull that checklist and just go follow those and see if it helps you. It might not it might be, you know, Michele, maybe you and I totally crazy, and it works only for us. I don't know, but it's kind of like, I would suggest you try to because it's deaf, for me, it's very helpful for Michele, it's very helpful. So I think, let's try it. Let's make an experiment. You know, it's a very simple experiment.
Michele 51:36
Yeah, I love that. I love it. And I love the challenge of doing it, because I'm going to now go think of other areas, to my husband's chagrin that we can document. I'll say this too. And I get overwhelmed by physical clutter. Okay, so if I open a drawer, and there's clutter, it overwhelms me. And if I walk into a home and things are over, it's not that I'm judging people. It's more than it overwhelms me because it feels chaotic. And I prefer a lot more order than that. Now, I don't have I'm not a purist. I mean, I don't care if your shoes are on the floor here. And there. I raised kids, we had to lead those around on the floor, all kinds of stuff. But in general, I like things to be in their place. And so I can remember going through and telling my husband, I didn't even want to cook in my kitchen. Because my drawers had gotten messy. And I took a weekend went online and ordered some things from Amazon went over to The Container Store bought Well, I love it too. It can do some damage to my checkbook, but I love it. And I went over there and I organized all of the drawers in our kitchen, like even the junk drawer. Everything is in nice little bins with what it is. And so now when I go in there, I feel like I am working in a place with order. And I say that because the physical chaos makes me feel that way. But I want to say that that same level of chaos in my business, not knowing what to do when to do it and how to do it is equally as overwhelming. I want to just go in and do what I love to do. And by creating, if you will, drawers that open that have things in the right places, I know where they go when you and I are done with this recording. I know when I'm going to do with the audio files, I know the drawer that I'm going to open to put the audio files in so that the next person can pick them up to do the next thing. We know that it's clean, it's crisp, it's ready to go. And if we can start to think about creating processes and systems and procedures in our company, as if we're cleaning out the junk drawer so that it doesn't feel so junky and overwhelming and chaotic. It might not be quite as overwhelming. And again, I can't do it all in one day. I couldn't do every door in one day. I couldn't do all my closets in one day. I chose one thing at a time and did that and I started feeling the endorphins that that high of oh my gosh I like I will even make my husband come into the kitchen and I was like Vanna White modeling all the drawers is like opened up so he can see them but the same thing will happen in your business when you can it's contagious.
Adi Klevit 54:18
Because he's like now putting put things in place because it's labeled and it's easy to find so there is no excuses right unless somebody is really wants to destroy you know they're destructive to the organization of the household. We're not but if not, you made it very easy. So maybe as an example maybe he would I don't know but maybe he wouldn't like organize it himself but now that he will he will keep it so he will put the whatever goes into this box because it's labeled in that box when I did the same thing you know my laundry room and cleaning area and I just basically labeled like you know, this is a it was for this is for mopping the floor. This is for you know dusting, this is for this this is for So everything now goes into its own place and it's organized. I don't have to read then go and organize it every two months or every month because it just stays in its place.
Michele 55:10
That's right. That's right. And so if it works in our home life, it can work in our business life too.
Adi Klevit 55:14
Good. And Michele, you and I have to go to The Container Store.
Michele 55:19
Okay, so I'm going to, tell you there are these two women, they are amazing. I'm going to look them up real quick on my Instagram. And I don't know them personally, somebody listening might, but they are called. I think it's the home edit. You got to check them out. This is the home edit. They were just purchased by Reese Witherspoon's company. And they are amazing. They constantly are showing you how to do things in your home had to keep things neat and all of that so you can you can go down a whole rabbit hole Tiktok and Instagram trying to find all that but it's totally worth it. Totally worth it. That's awesome. Awesome. Well thank you so much for joining us today tell everybody where they can find you where you're hanging out with.
Adi Klevit 56:13
Thank you Michele for having me. It's been great yes, they can find me and the best way is to go to my website which is bizsuccesscg.com That's b i z the word success spelled out CG for consulting group. Or you can find me on LinkedIn it's Adi Klevit. So it's Adi and last name is K L E V I T.
Michele 56:35
Perfect. And I will put all of that in the show notes. And I look forward to getting the blog post and getting your team involvement. So I'll add that in as well.
Adi Klevit 56:45
Awesome. Thank you so much, Michele.
Michele 56:47
Thank you too. I do. Thanks Adi for joining me. And now we both will go down that rabbit hole of online videos for folding clothes and organizing our homes and offices for sure. If you're listening today and you want to create order in your business apply for a discovery call at scarletthreadconsulting.com let's chat about where you are and where you want to go and see what could be missing from having you have the high level of performance and success that you desire. processes and systems lead to efficiency and efficiency leads to profit. And we all know that profit doesn't happen by accident. Profit is a Choice is proud to be part of the designnetwork.org where you can discover more design media reaching creative listeners. Thanks for listening, and stay creative and business minded.