208: How to Use Niching and Systems to Grow Your Business
Michele 00:00
Hello, my name is Michele, and you're listening to Profit is a Choice. Today on the podcast, we have Carolyn Boldt. Carolyn is really passionate about holistic health and wellness. And she's crafted a business that focuses on designing in these industries. There are so many good takeaways in this podcast. And Carolyn really has a heart to share and to teach. listen in as she shares the journey to focus on a niche that she bought, and how it has prompted a different way to scale her company.
Michele 00:36
Every day, empowered entrepreneurs are taking ownership of their company financial health, and enjoying the rewards of reduced stress and more creativity. With my background, as a financial software developer, owner of multiple businesses, and the interior design, industry, educator, and speaker, I coach women in the interior design industry, to increase their profits, regain ownership of their bottom line, and to have fun again in their business. Welcome to Profit is a Choice. Hi, Carolyn, welcome to the podcast.
Carolyn Boldt 01:11
Thank you for having me, Michele,
Michele 01:13
I am excited to talk to you and to dig into what you do. I think you're one of the first people that I have interviewed for the podcast to talk about some of the particular aspects of design that we're going to cover today. So that's exciting for me.
Carolyn Boldt 01:31
Awesome. That's great. That's great. It's going to be fun.
Michele 01:35
So Carolyn, let's start if you don't mind, share with our listeners a little bit about your background and, and how you got into design and where you started. And then we can move forward into what you're currently doing.
Carolyn Boldt 01:47
Okay, I'd love to. So I decided I wanted to be a designer when I was 14, my father worked at NASA, this was in the 60s. So yes, you can start putting age together. And he worked at NASA. And he was working on a zero gravity Earth orbiting space station. So this was 20 years before the space station was even involved. And he had an architect, or NASA hired an architect as an intern working on his thesis. And that was the thesis. And he would come over and visit my father and sit in the living room and philosophize about the hidden dimension of your environment and the psychology of the space. And the big focus at the time was How do they keep these astronauts from going crazy being in one space, all the same time, started talking about how the volume of space can change how you feel a lot about how space makes you feel. And it began to resonate with me that I cared about people like I thought I wanted to go into psychology, but I also loved art. And it was like, Could I actually blend the two and help people have different experiences by in creating spaces, to help them with those experiences to support those experience to initiate those experiences, etc. So that was kind of the driver. And then I did go, I went to the University of Texas and studied interior design and began to learn a lot more about the course the things that you learn the elements of design, and the principles of design and how you actually use those to do this one thing, which is to impact people's behavior in a space and to be an impact their environment. So I did choose to go into commercial design. And we were talking a little bit earlier about it. And yes, I've done the really big projects and all of those things that I decided to go into that because I do love the architectural part of it, the interior architecture part of it. But the way I got into this doing was so we do chiropractic office design, we do it virtually all over the United States. And we focus on chiropractic and holistic health. And the reason that we do that is because we want it to be more respected as a choice for people's health care. The people especially if we started this before the pandemic and the pandemic is actually kind of helped people understand that they can be responsible for their, for their health, and there are professionals that can help you. So going full circle, I started working for myself in 1991. And everything I did was custom and new scopes of services, every project that came along and it was all about me. I mean, when I say all about me, it was me. I'd have design assistance at times I'd have people at times but I all the business ran through me and I divorced, remarried and my husband was a commercial contractor and also had a background in architecture, engineering and he He decided to go into business for himself with me. Or beside me, I'll say. And we ended up finding ourselves doing design build in the Atlanta area, one of our largest clients started off small and that kept growing was Life University. So Life University is chiropractic college here. And in 2003, they almost lost their accreditation. So we helped, I helped reduce facility space. And then the new president came on board and said, How can we raise the image of the university by changing the facility environment, so he got it, he understood that connectivity. So we got involved in all kinds of I think we have 150 different projects on the books, not a lot of them were studies and ideas, etc. But what that did is it got us very immersed in the understanding the business of chiropractic, and understanding their challenges and there was and their, their pioneering spirit and all of those things, and we go full circle. I'm also holistic health care patient. So I have a very strong background in having experienced what Holistic Health Chiropractic alternative medicine can do, way back in the 90s, when my daughter was, was sick. So with all of that I already was a patient, personally an advocate of Holistic Health. And here I was working with these doctors that really needed help to be considered valuable. I mean, they were dealing with people think we're a quack, do you know, I'm saying.
Michele 06:35
I remember, I remember that what? So you know, my first 10 years were in financial software, okay. And one of my actually, though, the woman who was my mentor, they paired us up when you started. And she taught me all kinds of things about the business, probably, maybe four years, and she left software and went to life University to become a doctor of chiropractic. And so that was back in the early 90s. And so I remember I wasn't seeing a chiropractor at the time and I just remember thinking that something feels wrong. I mean, it's it was not mainstream in no in any way. Now, back at that, that point, but she, she graduated, loved it and actually moved to Florida and opened up a business, doing chiropractic practice, and I currently am, you know, a client of a chiropractor been going for probably, I don't know, 10, 12 years, and I have a naturopathic doctor and, you know, they were so nice. And I'll say this, Carolyn, just to make a quick comment. Yeah, you know, I, you may not know this, I think some of my listeners tonight, but I have multiple autoimmune diseases. So, you know, I've got hypothyroid, I have asthma and allergies, I'm type one diabetic. You know, I sit at a desk hunched over a computer all day, like all these things, and chiropractic care. And naturopathic care is, it's so important to my health along with going to the gym and taking care of my body. And then I certainly have what I call my oncologist, Rolodex, you know, I have my cardiologist, my endocrinologist, like I've got the ologists. So I go see specialists, but I love how all of them actually work together. Like I have my naturopath who talked to my endocrinologist, and together because they looked at my body differently, they were able to agree and on what the next medication I needed to take from my hypothyroid. They run tests differently, they look at them differently. My naturopath was able to look at all of my levels of extra like vitamins B, D, magnesium, like all the extra things I needed that a regular endocrinologist did not test for it was outside of their realm. And so being able to marry the two has been, like transformative in my own personal health. And I had to go figure out how to do that. And so, you know, that's just one piece of it. And so I get it. But I also say going into those offices, you want to feel a certain way you don't you want to feel like they know what they're doing, and they do and that it's professional, I mean, even with my oncologist, you know, kind of set a doctor's, I want to feel a certain way. I mean, there's nothing worse than going into the OBGYN And it'd be some nasty colors. It's already cold. You already don't want to be there. Exactly. You know if you can make the space beautiful, it relaxes you and you feel more trustworthy, you're more open to talk to your doctors. Like that's just an I don't even know like the parts of what you're going to tell us that you do. I just know of how I feel I and I am in the doctor's office about every two to three months based on you know what specialist I'm seeing for whatever way my body's breaking down today. So I'm in there all the time, and it does matter. But But I say all that to say I absolutely know what You're talking about with Life University and chiropractic back in the 90s. And how it was viewed even in the Atlanta area. And because it was the largest school, we used to go to their light show every year.
Carolyn Boldt 10:10
Yes, yes. Yes, yes. Yes. So, kind of the history, of course, when we started working at the university, they it was 2003. And I don't know if you know this or not, but they I remember when they were on yet doing almost, they did not lose their accreditation, but they almost lost their accreditation. And they literally went from a graduating class of 2000 to 200. So my job was to figure out how to reduce space, and how to consolidate these little bits of remnants that were left in all these different departments all into one area. So it was sad. And the facilities were in bad shape. And it was sad. So when Dr. Raymond came on board, and he, you know, he brought me in, they said, they call me in and they said, Can you help him rearrange his office? And I said, Yeah, that's yeah, of course. Yes, I can do that. And so it was bringing his new furniture in, but just getting to talk to him. And he had such aspiration for elevating the university again, and kind of bringing it out of the dust. And, yeah, and he became my client, actually, he has he retired and he's now my client. So but it's just fascinating, because that vision that he had to elevate the university went all the way down to the chairs in the lobby, do you know I'm saying? I do. Yeah. And when we first started, there was no money. So we use paint? What could we do with paint? Yeah, and that's what I the class that I ended up teaching in 2010. While we were there working, and I guess I did kind of get to that part of the story to 2010. Some of the people we were working with in enrollment, they were there were some weekend classes that they were teaching the students on business. And they asked us to come and teach a class and we put together we were so excited about it, it was free, we just wanted to do it and give back we put together this six hour presentation on the quality your office environment can have on your success, and why that that was important. And then we also talked about the process of opening an office, because if you if you understand anything about the process of design and construction, then you understand most people don't understand the process of design and construction. So that was our two pieces that we started to teach. And the out of that we had people coming in and asking us, what can you do for me? What can you help me? They were students. And we were so used to working on big corporate projects, we had no idea how to help them. I mean, we did but we didn't. Sure you didn't have a built in process, you didn't have a process. So at the same time, all that was going on, there was this knowledge that my husband and I began to gain as we were, if you've ever read the book, E-Myth, love it.
Michele 13:02
It's on my most read list. Yeah, got it.
Carolyn Boldt 13:05
Okay, so read that book E-Myth about that same time 2010. And really began to understand that we were technicians that had an entrepreneurial seizure. And we were really, really, really expert technicians. But we didn't know the first thing about business. So we could say we ran a business, but we just owned our job.
Michele 13:26
Yeah. And that oh, oh, say that, again.
Carolyn Boldt 13:29
We can say we owned our business, but we really just owned our job.
Michele 13:35
Love it. Love it. We call it a jobby. Yeah, yeah, I think that's it doesn't have the business pieces around, it doesn't have the business pieces. Segue on the E Myth revisited. If anybody is listening and is interested, we'll link it in the show notes. But it talks about the three main roles. There's the technician, the manager, and then the visionary kind of that, you know, the person is this CEO, the one who's casting the vision. And when you're running a business, you have to be at that visionary level, which means you cannot be the technician. I love the beginning of the book where it talks about. I think it's a woman that loves to bake pies, and all of a sudden she opened a bakery, and there was no way she could run the business of the bakery, staff the cash, register at the bakery and then make the pies. So you can't be all you have to graduate up. Which is why a lot of us talk about now and scaling, having the CEO somebody to do operations in management and then the technicians to execute. That's kind of in a two second nutshell, the framework of E Myth revisited. And you found yourself as the technician constantly doing the work and building a business. You may have had an LLC or a partnership or Ltd around it.
Carolyn Boldt 14:51
We were actually incorporated but
Michele 14:53
you're not Yeah, you were the one doing all the work,
Carolyn Boldt 14:57
my work. We have everything passed through us. I mean, we He had,
Michele 15:00
I think a lot of our listeners are going to totally resonate with that, right about building a business around our job, but still just doing our job, like you said, Not owning a business owning our job. And there's nothing, listen, there's nothing wrong with that. If you don't have a goal to scale and replicate into grow bigger, there's nothing wrong with being your own boss and creating that. But there are massive limitations. So just know you're going to hit a ceiling. And if that's where you want to stay, you can stay there. But if you're looking to grow something bigger, and bigger and bigger, you're going to have to move up out of that doesn't mean you won't dip your toe back into it, right. So if you're a designer for, for instance, and you own a big design firm, you're now going to be helping more with HR, you're going to be looking at profitability, you're going to be looking at metrics, but it doesn't mean you can't dip your toe back into some design. You just can't be the only designer doing all the designing.
Carolyn Boldt 15:53
How you're saying it's so well. Absolutely. That's the journey we've been on for the last 10 years. Absolutely, yes. I mean, I could go on for a little while on that if you'd like me to. But we, we found ourselves, my husband and myself found ourselves Yes, we were the go to for all of our clients, we hired assistants to help us I had assistant designers I had assistant, we didn't sell product we did for a little while, and I needed a whole staff just didn't handle selling product. So we just decided and it because we were commercial, it was easy just to use the commercial dealers that going through that process of just every project came through us. And we had to come up with a new scope, a new idea, a new, not the creative part. But the Yeah, fitting it not proposing it, everything was always a different. And I remember saying I wish that there was something that I could just have something to fit boxes, like you fit into this box. And that's how much it is. And there's my scope of services. And there's my price, this is what we're doing. This is what we're doing. And this is the system. So we got, like I said, all of this was kind of coming together at the same time, from you know, the to the re reading the book, teaching the class, seeing the need, dealing with what were we going to do. And so we had this vision, that, and I'll share this with you, because I have a couple of good really, really good friends designed, we're kind of our mentorship designers that we've been together since 1991. And I remember sharing with them, okay, this is what I want to do. And they thought I was crazy. You want to design for chiropractors, chiropractors have the ugliest little offices ever.
Michele 17:35
And their tables are not good.
Carolyn Boldt 17:37
That's exactly why they need help. And when we first started teaching the classes and knew that we were doing this as a business, I remember telling, we'd go through the process that we developed and we tell them how they create vision boards before we get started. And we'd say that don't go look at chiropractic offices, you're not going to find any good looking ones. But now you do. So I want to believe that there is a part of what we started that helped to elevate the whole profession. I don't know that it's us. But I know it was really, really something that I do see elevated, I see that whole thing and I agree. Yeah, and there's a history of dentist offices that is very similar, where dentist offices he used to not be like that either. And now this was so
Michele 18:22
It cold and clinical. And now they feel like you're going to alone mini spa before you go in. And you did you are so I want to I want to make note of some things that I am recognizing from your descriptions and what you're saying I am noticing a maybe a resonance with you had already been a client of this particular type of service you already had just like mine, you have a certain way of feeling about going in there. But when we you know we talked all the time about find your niche, find your niche, find your niche, you found your niche, not just because it was something that you loved or had experienced in but there was a big need, right? And because you you didn't just I guess what I'm trying to say is I am I'm able to see right on the podcast and our listeners are not but I can see the joy and the excitement in your face when you talk about niching down to serve these chiropractors into do for them and to give for them and when they asked you to come in and teach a business class, you know and even taking a step back and working on your own company and what your company was going to do so that you could then better serve them and then recognizing that you didn't have to do number one you didn't have to do business like everybody else. You didn't have to provide product if you didn't want to you could give them as we would say product links or here go work through these commercial companies. So that was one you didn't provide product. It wasn't the right fit for you to you really niche down like really, really chiropractor offers. That is niching But you also did it not because you thought I can just make money at it, but there's great need. And I know from the inside how much it's needed. But I also know from the outside providing the services, how it changes, not just the clients, it changes the staff, it changes the doctor. I think that is the interesting thing about spaces. It's like think about it, if we live in our home, the space that we're in doesn't just affect me, it affects anybody that comes into that space. I was talking to a friend of mine the other day, had not seen her in a couple of months. And we're gone on a weekend trip a girls trip last October up into the big canoe up into the mountains and hung out and I was talking to them then about, you know, we were talking about different things we're working on. And I said, I sit in my office all day long, for a minimum of five days a week. And I said, I have had the same paint color and the same custom drapes and the same stuff for years. And I'm kind of I'm sick of it right? I'm sick of seeing the same thing all day, every day for years. I don't feel joy, I actually feel dread walking into my office and I've got to be in there and I don't like the feeling. And when I first did this room, I felt joy in it because it was what I wanted. So I started on a trip to redo my office. And so I've got new paint, I've got a new, you know, great big sideboard behind me and from an antique. This whitewashed. I've got new custom drapery panels, I put fabrics in the back of my bookcase, I went and get two chairs that were antique chairs and had them covered in purple velvet, because purple is my color of joy. So I have purple velvet chairs that I can go sit in. So I was talking about. If I have to be here and want to be here, I've got to feel joy. Fast forward. I don't know what, eight 910 months. I see my friend this weekend. And she said to me, I want you to know how much you inspired me last November and I'm thinking or October and I'm thinking what did I say what she said, You've inspired me to create a beautiful space for me to work. She's real estate agent. And she has a home office. She's like, I realized my office had become kind of a dumping ground of things. And it wasn't beautiful. And I'm spending a lot of time in there. And you've inspired me to search for things that brought me joy, and that were functional, to put into that space so that I could work differently. And I want you to know it's never left me and I'm working on it. And I think it's very much the same kind of thing we tend to, you know not think about it, we think about it may be in our home office. But it's the same when we walk into those spaces.
Carolyn Boldt 22:46
Yes, yes. And what's interesting is that, that to me, the biggest difference between residential and commercial is the fact that residential is really, really, really about in my opinion, having not I did it a little bit, a little bit. So I touched on it a little bit. But residential is very much about the human being in the space. It's very, very, very, very personal. Right? And it's personal. What is that? What just what you just described? How do I want to feel in the space? How do I want to represent myself to my friends, etc. In business, it has to be about the return on investment.
Michele 23:25
That's right, that was exactly where I was gonna go with that. Let's talk about that. Tell me about that.
Carolyn Boldt 23:29
So it's still emotionally driven, though. Because people buy emotionally. People respond emotionally. So you just said it, how you feel in your office? In your you're talking about your office? So what what we find is that when we and part of what we teach, I would say is what we're kind of doing here is that helping people have an awareness helping doctors have an awareness of how that impacts not only their patients coming in, but their new patients coming in and what their first impression is. And we relate that to retail design. If you think about redesign, the environment that's designed is to help promote the purchasing. Right? So if you and I talked, I said even Walmart was designed to promote Walmart's purpose. It's the low price leader you walk in, it's busy, it's bright, it's light, you don't expect great service. They make a lot of money. They do it. That's how they do it. You go to a high end like a designer store. The whole environment is totally different. You don't see prices, the lights low, the colors are different. Those are all things that a designer made a decision on. Do you know what I'm saying? So that's the value that a designer can bring to a business and that people don't understand it very often. You know that they don't really unless they're in business. They don't really understand it. What I'm saying are a larger business. Sure. So entrepreneurs don't understand it.
Michele 25:04
Right? I think what's also interesting when we talk about ROI, on updating, investing, if we think about it this way, too, in a home, what are the main spaces that we say? You're going to get your return on investment? Right? It's usually kitchen, and bathrooms, especially the master bath, right? So the more we keep those updated, the more people go because they feel it feels like it's the most expensive thing, you know, areas of the home. And so people are looking at that. Well, at least, I don't have to update the kitchen, the bathroom, I can do all these other things. So it there is a return on those. Interestingly, I think in this and I have not done any super deep research on it. But I can imagine that in both say the chiropractic Holistic Health, when I walk in, one of the first things I'm going to expect is a clean design. Because I'm going somewhere that is trying to talk help. To me, I kind of think almost like when we talk about the biophilic design, right?
Carolyn Boldt 26:02
Very much yes.
Michele 26:03
, very health oriented, you know, green plants, all the things, I think there is emerging here of holistic and biophilic. I think there's some of that comes into play. But I don't want to walk into a space like that, that feels like a bunch of stuff. I don't it's got to fit, but it can't be so bear, that it feels medicinal. And so finding that happy ground that says we're clean, but not medicinal. Yes, we we are not here as holistic not just to fix, you know, for me, your sciatica or your neck, that's all crunched up the wrong way. But we're here to support your mental health, yes, by how you feel, we're here to relax you, I know, sometimes I have to have a massage before I can even do chiropractic. Because my neck and my shoulders are in such knots. So if I go into a place that makes me feel hyped up, or even more stressed, or more tense, and it's not a place that feels calming and soothing and relaxing, it is going to be difficult for them to even do the adjustment or for them to even be able to help in whatever modality they're using, right? Because my body is not responding the way it needs to respond, to get that assistance. And so there is a mindset that goes into that design that I think you and your team, you know, have really, really developed, I'd like to move and ask you about kind of taking all of that, okay, along with E Myth, you changed your business model so that it wasn't just you or you and your husband, you, you took that E Myth very seriously, and started moving yourself out a technician, can you share a little bit about that journey and what that looks like, because I know, I teach and coach on scaling a business, and 10 times out of 10. We're talking about pulling that person out. And I want to say this before you share with me because I'd love to hear your view on it too. This is scary. Let's just say what it is, is scary. It was scary. Yep. And it makes you feel like, but this is something I love to do. And I don't want to have to give it up and there's not a giving up here. It's a it's a adding to and maybe doing less of but you still get to do what you want to do. Right you show on the business. But that's a process and it's scary and it stretches you. And it you know, that means you now have to start relying on other people. So there's the whole delegation piece of it. Like it's a lot more than we might think at first glance, to move ourselves from technician up to entrepreneur.
Carolyn Boldt 28:39
You're so right. Because I we didn't know what we were doing. So the very first thing we that I mean, I could go it's so let me kind of go back a second when we were at this place. So we had to that, like I said about two? Well, 2008 was when it really started when the economy's kind of got kind of crazy, right? And we started looking at, we just were trying to deal with how do we survive? And then it started to go, you know, we need to be bigger. Where to where do we want to go? What is our end game? Yes, we love design. Yes, we love construction. We love all that. But what kind of future are we going to build here. And so we had a couple of choices. One was we could become really, really, really, really good and charge a whole lot of money and put a whole lot of it away and then live off of that. Or we could build something that would make money for us. That was really our only two choices. So that's what you're talking about with scaling.
Michele 29:34
So let's stop right there. That's building out a strategy. And here's the thing we do not any of us do not scale well, when we scale based on tactics without a strategy. So strategy always comes first. So you looked at here the two ways that this can play out, right, which one do we want to go because tactically we're going to build to that end?
Carolyn Boldt 29:57
Exactly. Okay, exactly. Right. Okay. So we had been. So what we began to see is that what were the elements that we needed to scale? And besides niching, we needed to scale we needed to create a system of the design process, which all the design processes go through your programming and schematic and if they always do, but how do we create a system, that our deliverables basically are the same? The design is not the same. That's right, the deliverables are the same.
Michele 30:32
So can I just, can I just like do a hallelujah, right? Because I will tell you that for the past 15 years, I have been trying to teach this and teach it to creatives. And the number one pushback that I have gotten over those years is, I can't build a system. I can't build a process because everything's different. And my answer is always back. I'm not talking about which sofa, right? I'm talking about, does the room need furniture? I'm talking about? Do you nine times out of 10, put a sofa into a family space, then we can build a process to make sure you don't forget the sofa. And that you've ordered the sofa, but not necessarily telling you which one we're not looking at cookie cutter design, we're looking at the larger elements. And yeah, take a 10,000 foot view instead of the you know, boots on the ground. So that when we do that we have a system for communication, we have a system for a deliverable. Do we know at the end of this phase of the project? These are the three things that the client should get into we know how we're going to deliver exactly that's what we're talking about.
Carolyn Boldt 31:35
Exactly. Because yes, exactly. And I will say this, it was not something we could do. We couldn't figure out how to do it, if we were working on any kind of project that came along. So we were doing life university work where we would do analysis and study and trying to figure out how to reevaluate their classrooms. And it was a very customized scope. Then we go over here and read to a restaurant and I've worked with the architect on a restaurant, and I would depend on his scope, or then we'd go, you know, it was just bouncing around to what project came along. And so by just saying this is the kind of project we're going to work on, was part of the key to figuring out how we step through it. Right. And that's scary, because that he's wearing a skirt here.
Michele 32:25
Here's what I, you know, have worked through before with different clients. And that is when we say yes, we're saying no. And when we say no, we're saying yes. So we need to be intentional and careful about the projects that we say yes to. And I say that because when you started niching, and you did it within an industry and you did it within a certain parameter, that meant that other really great opportunities that you had the skill set to do, were going to come your way, but you were going to have to say no to those because they didn't fit into the structure. And so that means you've got a trust that you're going to get it but it also helps you narrow down your marketing. Because now you know we are chiropractors coming after you kind of thing, right? We're going to market to you, but we're not marketing to the rest of you people.
Carolyn Boldt 33:12
You're exactly right. I have a story to share. Because it that's really difficult because my my goal, or my love was really large projects, it was very clear. I love really large projects, they lasted a long time, they had lots of parts and pieces. But that's not what we were going to go into. So it was like, we're going to go into fast track smaller projects. And how do we do that? Well, full circle, we did create systems. And I'd be happy to share with anyone what we've created, how we did everything I love to give, but we created systems, so that each phase of the project could be something that they purchased from us. So we would go through we know what is programming, we now have renamed it as step one, because then we got into crossover into marketing and sales and people understanding. They don't understand the word programming. Because programming sounds like computers, it's what we use, but it's right anyway, we had to over the course of time, you can see an evolution of even renaming things where it makes sense to them and how to them but we bucketed the programming because and designed, the design community will understand we bucketed programming as a step that they did in the process before they went to look at space. So they knew how much space they needed and what their vision was. Then we would bucket what we call space study tests fits in the real estate or Space Studies. A layout studies were even called in schematic design before they signed a lease. So they knew whether they
Michele 34:49
So could they could invest for the first two pieces, right? Or two buckets. Find out then that maybe it wasn't going to work. They weren't going to be able to buy a space right now and they could get out so they're not out on the hook for, you know, steps four, or five and six or whatever comes after. So they can buy what they need when they need it. Right? And you're okay with that, because of the way that you have we actually structure of your money to do that, right?
Carolyn Boldt 35:13
We actually set it up because they didn't need somebody to create design for them. They needed somebody, they still do need somebody to walk them through the complicated process.
Michele 35:23
And of how to think about that space. Will it do what we need it to do that? I mean, that's a big piece.
Carolyn Boldt 35:29
It is a very big piece, and it's probably our signature piece. Because what we've done is we've learned, specifically the chiropractic industry. That's right. And let me also say this, what's interesting is that we did start in chiropractic. I would say that and we still do chiropractic based practices. But the majority of our practices don't just do chiropractic.
Michele 35:55
That's why they usually have multiple modalities. Like my mind has some PT, it has massage therapy, back, like, you know, I've been in some that had reflexology, they just had, you know, additional modalities.
Carolyn Boldt 36:09
Exactly. So it's a chiropractic based is kind of where we are. But we, in fact, we our newest portfolio, he's not even a chiropractor. He's a neurologist. But his what he practices is very similar to what functional neurology chiropractic stays. So it was, we knew that we knew it was still going to fit Correct. Exactly. And we, and they come to us, because they know we know them. They also come to us, because they know we're advocates for them. So if you if you're dealing with this holistic you like we were talking about, they're pioneers, they're fighting against being a quack, not as much as they used to. It's gotten better, but it's still not over right for them. And they also have to look, you know, so they have to compete. And so that's part of what we talked to him about your return on investment is you are competing, because there's chiropractors everywhere, it's like nail salons, right? They're everywhere, what's going to make you stand out. And just because you've got, you know, different modalities. They've got to connect with who you are. So I'm sorry, I went off on a tangent. So anyway, we created the systems, we created the deliverables. Those have somewhat evolved over time, but not much, sir. Not much. we've tweaked them. You know, we're always looking at my my story about never, I tell my staff never tell me that this is the way we always do it. We always cut those, you've heard the story about cutting both sides of the ham off, because my grandmother only Turpan was only that big. Okay, you know what I'm talking about? Right? So do I. So we're constantly evolving it. But yeah, it was scary. So I will tell you, I hired we the very first thing we did was hire a marketing company. Because we didn't know the first thing about marketing. We just it was all word of mouth, which was a great place to be. But we were never going to grow into this niche. Because we knew we had to go beyond the Atlanta area. So how are we going to do traditional networking marketing that we were used to doing? And so we actually developed an online marketing presence. And we created the app, just like you'd hear other people that do online stuff, we created free free resources, we had lead magnet that as lead magnets, I didn't know what any of that mean, I remember the marketing guy came and he said, So what's your ideal client? Like? What is that? What do you mean ideal client? So learned a lot, lots and lots of study lots of understanding of, of how to run your books differently, you know how to run them. So it was more people than just you how to do a payroll, how to really, because we had just hired people as to 99 Part time people whenever we needed them kind of in and out. And now we're trying to staff. That was a different process. So it's been a Yeah, it's been a process asked me more questions.
Michele 39:01
That's awesome. So let's talk about team efficiency and client retention. So now that you've built this team, and I'm assuming that you probably ran into struggles with first time hires, like when you've never heard before, going through the process, that is a that is a process, right, finding the right people to do the right work. The right way is not easy.
Carolyn Boldt 39:25
I'll share with where we've can come to. And yeah, so just know that we also heard business coaches along the way. I would, I don't know how we would have done it without them to help and we progress through different levels of business coaches are that same reason. But the original idea of your typical design firm is trip senior designer, and then you have juniors and you know, layers. Right, right. Right. So what we noticed is that we had that to begin with and what we noticed that the amount of time was involved in these projects was usually about six weeks. Okay, these are from beginning, from the time they signed the lease till the time the construction drawings are done, it's about six weeks. So the back and forth between a senior and a junior designer was eating up our hours like crazy,
Michele 40:14
Right? It was kind of slowing things down action and exam and increase the cost to the client.
Carolyn Boldt 40:19
Very much. So. And my senior design, I had have one senior designer who has been with me for seven years. And she was the one that, you know, basically said, Carolyn, I can do this so much faster. And I really want to she said, I can fix the stuff faster than I can redline it. Do you know, I'm saying in the program, that sort. So we we hit a point, I also had another designer that had less years experience, and I didn't realize how much she didn't know. So now all I have our designers with 15 to 30 years experience, and they all totally run the job. So because they can do it fast. They do it fast, they do it efficiently. They're the one in you really, really need that level in the beginning anyway, because that's where you establish, you know, you just have to have that experience level to pull out the to create the space plan and the schematic design really, really well. But they run it all the way through the construction drawings, because they can do it better and faster and in Korea,
Michele 41:27
and you're talking six weeks, that's hard to hand off. And exactly projects are happening that quickly. I can imagine the budget is low. Yes, that's right. And so I can imagine that, like, let's say you had a more junior person in there, or even a staff level, somebody who really still had quite a lot to learn. The pace is so fast of what you're doing that there unless they are just super on it. They may not they may not be able to pick up as quickly. So it would be again more of a, there's always a drain on the process when you have less experience on the team. Right? So I think the one thing that I would recommend is when we're looking to hire, the question is do you have time to train and to give this person the opportunity to ramp up? If you do not have that you do better to hire more experience to get it done. I know a lot of times I'll have clients that I'm working with that have so much work, you know, there's been just this boom of work over the last two years. And so one of the knee jerk reactions is I need to hire for that I need to hire for that. But then when it comes time to hiring, a lot of fear creeps in and they think I need to hire Junior. Some of them do, right? I don't it's not a one size fits all. No, no, no, no. But I asked them that because you're like, I gotta get all this work off my plate. And I'm like, but if you hire a junior, you're really not getting the work off your plate, you now are lengthening the work because there's a training that goes on, along with you having to get the work done. And so it's going to be a drain, if you really want to get the work off your plate, you have to hire somebody with your similar ability to take the work. So are you looking for a long game to bring people in to raise them up to that level? Or are you looking to get it off your plate because you are adding to your plate, the more junior you hire, you're getting it off your plate, the more senior you hire. And so when you're looking at that model within the timeframe that the work needs to get done, then you can realize where it higher yours, though, is quick, fast page, smaller margins, because we're talking to commercial and smaller budgets, because we're usually talking independent doctors that are trying to get started. They want it to be nice, but they're investing a lot of their money and a lot of a lot of tech and a lot of other things. And so this matters, but it's not getting the bulk of their money. Right, right. So I totally can see that. So then what does your model look like right now then? Or is it like you at the top? You and hubby at the top? And then are all of those designers kind of right under you and you manage them? Or what does that structure? Look?
Carolyn Boldt 44:11
It's interesting that you say that because we're trying to reach you said it so beautifully in the beginning that idea of being the CEO, and then being the operations and then the technician. So right now I have four senior designers. One of them has been with me three months. They're all virtual. So we're all also all virtual. And we started out doing virtual design 2012 I don't even remember how we did it because that was even before some of these go to meetings and things and zooms and stuff. But what happened is that my senior designer was working in coming what you would know Atlanta so she was in coming and we were in Kennesaw. So she would come in the office meet with us but then she would spend she would do a lot of her work from her home base. through the videos and stuff, she ended up her husband got transferred to South Carolina, which couldn't come in the office anymore at all from South Carolina. So it's like that kind of started this virtual, hey, can this work 100% virtual. And then the other designers that I hired, a couple of them would come in the office and just wanted to be in the office, but then they decided they wanted to be virtual. So it was a very organic change before COVID.
Michele 45:26
And I will say not doing a lot of the product selections helps in that I think, the minute you start getting into product selections, being together to scheme and to look at all those things that you know, in tech, well, they will feel them.
Carolyn Boldt 45:40
Yeah, I will tell you this. So so using so the lifesaver for us was material bank, yes, have any loves lifesaver for us, save time got stuck to the client, otherwise, we were getting the stuff in, we were packaging it up and we were sending it to the client because we would never pick finishes virtually, we would show them and then we ship them and we do it all virtually right. But the material bank was a lifesaver. Having creating, you know we have a couple of vendors that we use a lot we use shag carpet, almost exclusive shop, contract flooring, almost exclusively and they so things like that that we kind of have honed in on. But what we do miss I will say what we really miss is that is that cohesiveness of the designers kind of brainstorming with each other right around the table kind of thing around the table and sharing ideas with each other. My two most senior designers, the one that been with me, the longer they naturally do that with each other, but I have two others one is 20 years experience. One is 15. The one that's 15 is brand new, they don't naturally do that. Okay, so. So a new idea, hey, this is a problem. What do we do? So I'm trying to figure out how to create I've got some ideas of how to create with a buddy system, a monthly buddy system, where they're kind of forced.
Michele 47:05
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Carolyn Boldt 47:06
They're working together. Yeah, to working together. So as I'm saying that, because it's just a builds team, it builds team and thinks that that's our especially because our designers work so low on a project. So they can get that's another that's a challenge that we have to deal with is that they can get narrowminded. The same design happening over and over not necessarily finishes. But we do a lot of millwork design. And sometimes I'm like, this front desk looks like this guy's front desk that looks like that guy's front desk, you know, why are we doing the same front desk over and over? So little things like that as the CEO, but you're asking me the question right now, my role is, I'm kind of handling the operations of design. But those designers are really, really self managed, because of their level of seniority. And I more of kind of a filter of viewing them. Could the company be better if I had more time to really get in there and support their connectivity? Yes, it could be I know, it could be, but I only have so much time. Because the other part of my time is I'm the Marketing. I'm the voice of the company. And that's, I had no idea when I started this that I would start to love that. But that's my evolution of part of what I love is this teaching and what we're doing right now.
Michele 48:27
So I think, you know, just from the outside looking in, and I'm trying to hire an operation, I was about to say, Okay, I want you to go get an operations person. Yes. Because that person can do the check ins they can do some of the filter because the more that you're out there speaking Carolyn and your that's a marketing but you're sharing and you're educating more work is going to come in right as the fruit of that labor. And when it does, you can't be the one that's doing all that. There's a great book Exactly. Mike Michalowicz called Clockwork. Yes. Yes. And, and Clockwork he talks about the queen bee role. Yes. And the queen bee role is as the entrepreneur, the owner of the firm, what is it that only you are poised to do? Yes. And that's what you have to do. Right? Everything else can go on a delegate list, right? Yes. And again, it's an evolution. I think we're all working our way there it is. It is because many people would think I could never imagine building a design firm if I'm not the one doing all the design. But when they start to find design anymore, right? And when they start to find in some, some keep a business that allows them to do that. And they just hire everything around them. That's a model. But you also may find that like you, the journey has taken you to a different place in the business as a business not just, you know, building a business around your job that actually allows other people to do what they love to do and you get to explore more of who you want to be. Yeah, and I think that's just beautiful.
Carolyn Boldt 49:57
Well, you said something also earlier about You know, and you're the CEO, then you can just kind of pop in and do some stuff here and there. I, I'm going to I don't know, you said it exactly that way. But the coach that we have right now is telling us, you know, that kind of idea. So I can pick and choose clients, right? So I said, I don't do designing more, but I actually do have two or three clients right now that I'm using my junior, my not my junior, my new designer, as training. But they're all past clients. So they come back to you because their past clients and things of that sort at times, but But you know, the other fun choice? I guess, right? You get choice as you build the buddy system.
Michele 50:38
Yes, you can easily pop in on a buddy meeting every once in a while. Yeah, and I just want to pop in. And I just want to look at the design with you. I want to talk to you about it as if you're a team member, not just as a manager. So I love that. Yeah, yeah, it gives you the freedom to be part of the team, but also separate from the team. Right? I love that. Thank you so much. Well, Carolyn, this has been such a fun conversation, just to see how you niche down to see how you're working in the area that brings you joy, to see how you've scaled and build a team, and to see how you've allowed yourself to kind of discover something, the marketing and the understanding and the education that maybe you didn't know, when you started all of this was kind of a path for you. And I also definitely grow. And I really think it is so fun, that you told the story about your dad and NASA and the you know, the guy that came over and talking about space yet you're talking to different space, but spaces space, and I just love how you can tie back. Even as a young girl, I like a moment that that really became a turning point in your life and to see how that's played out over the years. So I think that is it's a beautiful thing to watch that arc is really pretty. So thank you for sharing that.
Carolyn Boldt 52:00
Thank you very much. It's been a journey. It's been a journey.
Michele 52:04
So Carolyn, if our listeners want to know more about you tell us where you're hanging out in socials or your website, how can they find out more.
Carolyn Boldt 52:12
So our company's name is cross fields. And right now our URL, you can get crossfieldsinc.com And find us or Google Crossfields Chiropractic office design or anything. We're right now or we actually created our website to be Crossfield, our chiropracticofficedesign.com. So that's where we are, we also have Facebook, under the same name, we have a Instagram, we have Twitter, somewhere along the way, LinkedIn, we have all of those things were probably the most heavy on Instagram and Facebook.
Michele 52:50
We put all those links in the show notes too. So everybody should be able to find you.
Carolyn Boldt 52:54
I do have a created a special landing page when I do podcasts and stuff. So that anyone can download our free information just with one click, you know, I don't know how much you were actually interested in chiropractic floor plans, but you can at least see what kind of free resources that we have and what we're sharing, and kind of what we're what we're using to educate the community that we have.
Michele 53:20
Yeah, perfect. Excellent. So I'll make sure that we have that link available as well for all the listeners. But Carolyn, it has been such a delight. And thank you for your time today.
Carolyn Boldt 53:29
Thank you so much for having me, Michele, hope it shared a lot. Thank you.
Michele 53:33
Thank you, Carolyn for sharing your heart and your business. Check out the show notes and the link that she has created for those who want to know more. And if you caught it in our discussion, Carolyn shared in her journey, how creating a strategy for the future and then executing on that strategy is what really helped move them forward. Strategy is exactly what I teach in my coaching firm. Because here's the deal. If we're doing day to day operations, and we're working even with our ideal client and making money, but we don't have a longer term strategy, even the work that we do and love is just going to get old, creating a strategy. Remove some of the stress of not knowing where you're going in your business. If you're a well established design firm, and you want to create or tweak your business strategy to reduce stress and to create a plan of execution forward, apply for a discovery call on my website at scarletthreadconsulting.com I would love to help you think strategically about what you're building. Each choice moves you closer or further away from your goal and from profitability. So be intentional because profit doesn't happen by accident. Profit is a choice is proud to be part of the designnetwork.org where you can discover more design media reaching creative listeners. Thanks for listening, and stay creative and business minded.