261: Podcasting as a Revenue Stream 

Michele Williams: Hello, my name is Michele, and you're listening to Profit is a Choice. With me on the podcast today is Traci DeForge. Traci has over three decades of experience in broadcast media, executive management, and consulting for Fortune 500 businesses. She is the founder of Produce Your Podcast, and she's going to be sharing with us today how creating and having your own podcast can lead to profitable results in your life and in your business.

Every day, empowered entrepreneurs are taking ownership of their company financial health and enjoying the rewards of reduced stress and more creativity. With my background as a financial software developer, owner of multiple businesses in the interior design industry, educator, and speaker, I coach women in the interior design industry to increase their profits, regain ownership of their bottom line, and to have fun again in their business. Welcome to Profit is a Choice.

Hi, Traci. Welcome to the podcast.

Traci DeForge: Hello. I'm so happy to be here, Michele. Thanks for having me on.

Michele Williams: Oh, my pleasure. I'm excited to talk to you. There are so many directions you were telling me about that we can go in. and so many things we can talk about. You’ve had a very varied career, so let's start there. Tell us what you did, like right out of college, and how you got to where you are today.

Traci DeForge: Well, thank you, because the answer to that question is actually connected. So, I started my broadcast radio career very early, right out of college, and had just the most fortunate opportunity to work for the same broadcast company for 18-plus years. During the course of that time, I accelerated from primarily working on the sales and management side, which enabled me to really work with a lot of different brands, and a lot of different companies, locally, regionally, and nationally. And then as I progressed with the company, I basically went through all the ranks of management positions until I was what's called the market manager. At that point, I was overseeing twelve radio stations in the Atlanta area. That was the catalyst for me to then start my own business because at that point, I couldn't really go any higher unless I owned the stations, and that wasn't an option.

I started my own business and initially worked with a lot of other broadcast radio stations in management and sales training, and management transition. But one of the most really heartfelt parts of my career that I still love so much to this day is that I spent a decade working with women entrepreneurs, helping them launch and start businesses of their own, and parallel track that with business development strategy with Fortune 500 companies like Google and Hilton and Weight Watchers, which then led me to start my own podcast. I was very inspired by a project that we worked on with Weight Watchers International. I was on the global innovation team with them. That event, that process, and that project just motivated me to want to start my very first podcast, which is called “Journey to There”, exploring the intersection between personal and business growth. And right after I launched it, I was like, there have got to be other people like me who want to have a full-service production and marketing experience for their podcast so I could focus on my clients and not on getting my podcast out every week. Really swiftly after that, I merged my love for broadcast radio, and my love for business development strategy, and launched Produce Your Podcast, and we're going into our 9th year. So, I jokingly and lovingly say that then podcasting years, that's 100.

Michele Williams: It probably feels like 100, doesn't it?

Traci DeForge: On some days, yes.

Michele Williams: I'm curious, what was it about the Weight Watchers project event? What was it that spurred something in you that, because, let's be honest, I've had a podcast since I think I started in 2018. I thought about it for two years prior to that, but I knew how much work, I won't say I knew, I had a good feeling that it was a lot of work going into it. It wasn't just grabbing the microphone and starting talking so I really laid some groundwork in my business and in my life to prepare to be able to even do it. I'm not suggesting yours was that fast-tracked, but to be spurred on to do it had to be something like, it had to be something deep in you that felt like the need to.

Traci DeForge: Sure.

Michele Williams: Well, what was that?

Traci DeForge: I think it's a multifaceted experience because the project that we were working on with Weight Watchers that I was consulting on was to revamp the in-person meeting model for Weight Watchers at the time. And again, just to give you time, this was 2016, so this was right on the heels of when Oprah was investing in the company. So, they were looking for some consulting support around how to really reinvigorate their in-person meeting model and that's what I was tasked with. Long story short, one of the things that we did under that scope was we created an incredible event that we piloted in Minneapolis, and it was all about taking care of yourself and wellness. It was just an incredible event that we prototyped. It was an amazing team to work with. Fantastic event. Like, everything just came together in such a magical way. At the team dinner, there was a girl named Jen, and I'll never forget this conversation as long as I live. And she looked at me at that dinner, and she said, how is it that you get to do what it is that you do? I don't know if it was the way she asked the question or if it's how I heard the question, because normally in an environment like that, specifically, I would give her my bio answer. It's like, well, I worked in radio for 20 years, and then da da da, but my heart answered her question in a way that was that I had, really wanted to design my business around my life and my life around my business, but that it was an incredibly challenging thing to maintain and do. But it was based on the years of experience that I had. Yes, but really more so I got to do what it was that I wanted to do because I thoughtfully built my business in that way. And as we were talking about before we opened the mic, this was before remote work. This was before working from home was something that was really a common thing. It was a much less common thing.

At that time, I had moved to a small island, a barrier island, off the coast of Georgia. I was living at the beach, and I built my business such that I could travel and do this Fortune 500 consulting work, but still kind of come home and have that safe environment, like, cozy, safe, small environment, and then experience the larger cities and things like that. So, it was the way she positioned that question. It was the way I answered that question. And then I was ignited with this concept of “Journey to There” because throughout my entire professional working career, I have struggled so hard with what I consider to be a true work addiction. I always say that that's the one addiction that you get accolades instead of intervention, because, oh, you're so busy. Oh, I don't know how you do it. I had achieved a tremendous amount of success by the typical definitions at an early age, but there have been chapters of my life where I was physically, emotionally, and spiritually exhausted. It was a result of always working. And so, “Journey to There” was just inspired by all that positive energy of that event and focus on well-being. And when I was leaving the airport from, Minneapolis to fly back to Georgia, I texted an engineer that I had worked with in radio for decades. As you mentioned, I didn't have an inkling of how much work it was going to be. I knew how much work it was going to be. I also knew that I wanted to broadcast quality radio shows, essentially. I also had the forethought and the vision around podcasting at that time, to know that it was going to be the next iteration for successful marketing strategies, it was going to replace the blogs. Podcasting is going to transition from a nice-to-have to a need-to-have. So, I had that visionary capacity, but at the time, I just wanted a podcast. So, I texted him from the airport and I said, do you produce podcasts? He came back and said, for you, I would, and the rest was history. I launched my first podcast, and then 90 days later, I merged my business acumen, business development strategy, podcast production, and broadcast radio experience into Produce Your Podcast, which is the company that I run now, and I've owned and run for almost nine years.

Michele Williams: Well, I can say I didn't come from that background. So, my background is more tech and interior. I never thought of the podcast. I knew it was a big deal for me. It was. I had children at home, and I wanted to teach, and I wanted to share. I had been traveling, traveling, traveling to the point that I wore my body out and was exhausted.

Traci DeForge: Yes, it's the worst.

Michele Williams: It's the worst. And I still wanted to teach and to share and to empower those that I was speaking to to be able to take care of their financials. I thought, if I can't go get on a plane and keep traveling at the same rate because it's wearing me down, how else can I get their attention just, I'm going to put in air quotes here “for free” to go talk to them. How do I get in their ear to go, you can do this. Look here, look there. Here's the number you want. Are you doing that with empirical data? Are you doing that because you have a gut feeling? I saw it, yes, as a marketing tool, but I saw it as a teaching stage.

Traci DeForge: Oh, absolutely right.

Michele Williams: And so, for me, that was kind of my driver, I need to get in front of you, and you're going to have to pay a lot if I've got to come to you, I'm going to have to pay a lot just for my own physical well-being and all the travel. Anytime you travel, you almost have the day in the front and the day in the back.

Traci DeForge: Back end. Oh, absolutely.

Michele Williams: It's just a whole thing and you're limited because you can only speak to so many people at any given time.

Traci DeForge: Exactly.

Michele Williams: But I did not foresee podcasting blowing up as big as it has, and it still has a ways to go. It's still considered very much in its infancy a few years in. We're just maybe getting to the naughty teenage years.

Traci DeForge: We are just getting started, which is so exciting. In fact, when I launched my first podcast in 2015, there were 350,000 podcasts total, and now they're over 4 million. And people go, oh, my gosh, well, is it too late? Did I miss the boat? Is the market saturated? And I'm like, no, because there are, like 100 million, maybe even, like, a billion YouTube accounts at this point, you know, a hundred million Facebook accounts, there's, Instagram. We're talking about six-figure digits of accounts to compete with on the social media platforms and in podcasting, we're still in the single digits. So, it is absolutely not too late to start, engage, or leverage podcasting. And just what's possible is so exciting.

Michele Williams: It's funny. I don't even listen to Audible that much. I'm more of a physical reader. Like, I want either my Kindle or my books. I've got them marked up.

Traci DeForge: Oh, me too.

Michele Williams: But I love to hear stories. I've got my favorite podcast, and sometimes I listen to them as escapism. For example, if I'm in the bathroom instead of watching someone get ready with me, GRWM out there, I can't watch their get

 Ready and get ready and get ready at the same time. Right?

 But I can listen to a podcast while I get ready.

Traci DeForge: Exactly.

Michele Williams: Turn it on and sit it to the side. And I can listen, the same way that people are probably listening to this. I listen to it in my car. I keep my car tuned to pick up whatever is on my podcast when I get in the car. My husband gets so irritated because he's not listening to the podcast, and he gets in the car with me, and wherever I left off is coming back on, like, an audible.

Traci DeForge: Like, in full volume. Right? Does your husband listen to your podcast? That's always something people ask me, and I'm like, I don't think he's ever listened to one of my episodes because I would know if he had, because I talk about my life, and he's in my life, and he's never mentioned anything about it. Now, his mother listens, though, which is kind of funny.

Michele Williams: Oh, that's funny. I think my husband has listened to two. I interviewed him one time, and I think he listened to it. And I interviewed both my sons one time, and I think he listened to that one, and I don't think he's ever listened again. He probably thinks I hear you all day, I don't need to hear you for another hour on a podcast.

Traci DeForge: Yeah, I get it.

Michele Williams: All right, so answer me this, then. I know what I was going to say. What's so cool about it is you can niche way down. And sometimes people think that when they start the podcast, they're signing up for five to ten years. Some podcasts may have that amount of growth, it may have that amount of coverage. Some podcasts just come in for a season to cover a topic, and then they're done. And then a lot of times, those hosts or co-hosts may start another podcast to talk about something else. Not all podcasts have to last. You're not signing up for your life the moment you sign up for it. Share with me a little bit about that.

Traci DeForge: That is such a great question, and I don't get asked this question frequently enough, because I think what you just said can reduce the overwhelm, so much. If people just have more understanding about what's possible with a podcast. So, I've mentioned “Journey to There”. “Journey to There” was an amazing podcast. It went through a lot of different iterations. I had a co-host for 100 episodes, then I did solo episodes, and then for where it is right now, it's archived. But I've had a pop of color podcast that was inspiring creativity. I currently have a growth accelerator podcast that's focused on growing podcasts, and I also host a live radio show that's, repurposed into a podcast and this all focused on entrepreneurship. Now, I'm not the norm. Okay, I can hear your audience right now going, but you said you were going to lower my overwhelm. That just accelerated it. I'm not the norm. I also own a company that can full-service produce all of my stuff, too. So, when I get creative inspiration, I have that opportunity plus, it is my art. Like any painter or sculptor, the audio is my art. That's how I express myself. But to specifically respond to your point, what I really like people to take away from this is that you can do a season, you could do ongoing episodes. You could start with, once every other week, and then you could add to it. You could take away from it. You can have a series or special series. We have a client, for example. Her podcast is called “Finding Forgiveness, a family fairy tale”. It is a beautiful podcast. The entire purpose has a beginning, a middle, and an end because she's ultimately going to write this as a book. It was something that she felt like if she got verbally out first because it's a lot of personal and vulnerable content then she could take that and have it transcribed, and then we can help her and convert it into a book, ultimately. And the other interesting thing, is we work really closely with someone who produces books. Tina Deetz from Twin Flame Studios made such a great observation when we were together recently at a podcast conference where she said if you have written five books, everybody's like, oh, my gosh, you've written five books. You must be something if you've written five books.

Well, I've had five podcasts, and people probably just think I'm sporadic and kind of quirky. But it's five, different segments of content, which is why I shared all the different layers of podcasting that I participated in, because, essentially, if I wanted to turn all of those into books, I would have five books, right? I think people just have to really understand when you make the decision to start a podcast, the fundamental thing that you want to think about is your why. I love what you said, because your why was you wanted to educate people and motivate them to grow their businesses, and you didn't want to have to leave your house to do it as much or as frequently or at all, if possible. That was your why and then from there, you develop the strategy. From there, you create the frequency, the cadence, whether it's going to be for one season or whether it's going to be for ten years. But you get to make that choice, which is what I think is such a powerful proposition about investing and moving forward into creating your own show.

Michele Williams: All right, so I've got a question, something that's coming up, and I've never really thought about it this way before, but the conversation of it could have been a season, or it could have been years, or longer duration. I'm going to back up, given that that audio could very well replace blogs. I know now when I get a blog, I'm like, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll. I'm hitting the highlights and moving through it. On audio, though. You can listen to it at 1.5 or two times the speed. Like, there are ways to get through the content and take it in faster. Have you seen companies, let's, say interior designers companies that thought I really have these burning questions that almost every single client asks me. I would like to put together a small podcast series where either somebody interviews me or I just take a topic. Let's talk about the scope of a project, and then just podcast the answers to all of the questions that they would want their ideal clients to know and hear and be aware of before engaging with them, or when they're in the middle of the project and the client says, I'm so exhausted, this is irritating me, nothing's coming on time. They can say, I totally understand, I have a podcast episode that is covering exactly that thing here. Here's the link. Go listen to it, and they can go then listen to a podcast link just on. You may be hitting the part of the project that everybody hits where everything feels like you're exhausted and it's not going to come together. Let me tell you to hold on. I guess what I'm saying is, that podcasts, truthfully, don't have to be ginormous and huge and reach the entire world. It just has to reach your ideal client for whatever purpose you have for that podcast. Even if it is a shorter 10-12 podcast series that lives on your website that you can point somebody to without having to do the work over and over and over and over.

Traci DeForge: There are so many wonderful nuggets to unpack in what you said. I'm going to try to remember all of them. So, starting with the utilization of the podcast, and the blog and messaging people, so one of the best things that a podcast can do for your business is to grow your business. To your point, we talk a lot about our growth accelerator program at produce your podcast, we talk a lot about you having gold in your backyard. People get caught up in like, they need tens and hundreds of thousands of downloads to define success as a podcaster. That is absolutely a myth. We're going to bust that myth right now, because to your point, if you are speaking to your core target audience and you are able to express your authenticity, your thought leadership, your subject matter expertise, answer those questions like you mentioned, then you are getting your loyal audience engaged with you. They are sharing your episodes with other people that they think might want to hear them. But more importantly, you're building a very loyal, potential customer base. You've been a speaker before. You can relate to this. It's like, when do you have that opportunity? If some people say, oh, my podcast only gets 300 downloads per episode, it's like, okay, well, when was the last time you had a chance every single week to speak to 300 people and not leave your headphones? That is okay. People need to give themselves permission to be okay with whatever their audience numbers are because it's how you continue the conversation with them after the episodes. So, whether you're doing an ongoing episode every week, every other week, or you, like you said, have a targeted focus series of ten to 13 episodes. I like 13 episodes because it covers three months exactly. It's like a 90-day sprint if you will.

Then you have that content, you can transcribe it, you can take that and create your blogs. Because blogs are still highly efficient for SEO. They may not be something that you're going to send out to people. Although one other really good marketing piece of advice on that is to record the episode, transcribe it, have it turned into a blog post, and utilize it for LinkedIn. Because you can embed the player into the LinkedIn newsletter and article and publish it that way. And in addition to that, then you have social media posts. You can cut and paste, you can create reels. I mean, it just presents this efficient opportunity to really get out the marketing pieces.

I love the suggestion that you made. Our primary audience does live on LinkedIn, so we very effectively use a direct messaging strategy on LinkedIn. So, if we have an episode and we are engaging with the person and they have a specific question, we'll do exactly what you said, which is, we'll say, hey, this episode covers this question. Take a listen. Not only does that serve and position you as someone who's providing valuable information, that solves a pain point for them, but it's also increasing your downloads if they click it and play it. So, it’s a win-win strategy. I think your other point about just, setting yourself up for success is really, at the end of the day, what you want to look at for your podcast is, how can my podcast really help me connect with my audience? I know you ask a very specific question, have I seen that Q & A segment aspect done in one of the podcasts? We launched, "Inside Design", which is a podcast hosted, by Kelly Cole and Joanne Kendrick. It's weird if I say it in reverse because it's Kendrick and Cole, Interior Designers. They've gone from starting a podcast, and I think the point I want to say before I walk through this journey is that you don't really know where your podcast journey is going to take you. So, if you want to have your objective be ten or 13 episodes, start there, because you don't know what's possible. So, for them, I think five years in, we're now with their podcast. They started with every other week. Then they were asked to be ambassadors at the furniture marts and things like that. They were asked to speak on stage. In fact, they spoke, a year or so ago on the stage at the global design conference about podcasting and how it grew their business. They're doing another speaking engagement this year about podcasting. They ultimately ended up being able to get their show sponsored. They have their entire show sponsored so it's a revenue generator for them. Their client base is Atlanta, Georgia proper. They're not looking for global expansion with their podcast. On their hundredth episode, Williams and Sonoma reached out to them and put Marlo Thomas as a guest on their podcast. And over the years, their show has just grown. Their sponsorship opportunities have increased, their visibility has increased, and this year, they went from two episodes a month to four episodes a month. But what's so fun about that is the alternate episodes don't have to do with design. They're just things that they love because people have become so excited about their chemistry, their conversations, and how they interact with each other. So, they are now doing just like, here's the shoes we love. Here's the place we love to travel. But also, the Q&A point, which is like a very long-winded way to get back to your question, is that about once a quarter, and they've done this since they launched their show five years ago, they do a specific Q&A-driven episode. In some cases, we'll collect the data, as an actual voicemail, because you can leave them a message on their website, just like old school answering machines, so it can sound like a live radio show, but if they aren't getting the questions on the voicemail, then they just read the questions. But they’re able to showcase their expertise and so their podcast has served them in so many different areas, but fundamentally, it's been a growth tool for their business.

Michele Williams: Yeah, I just had them on here where I know them, and they were just on my podcast. They are giving back in the Guatemala trip and that type of thing. So, it is true that being on a podcast and we can talk about this for a second, too, whether it's your own podcast that you use as your own strategy, or whether you're working with a podcast company to get you placed on other people's traffic, as we would call it, but it's really about visibility. It's about audible visibility. I know that sounds like a really weird way to say it, but for people to know who you are, to know what you do, and to know what you are an expert at, it's really a fast way to get the message out. And then if you own the podcast and you're producing the podcast, there are so many other things that happen other than just hearing yourself talk for an hour, right? There's the sponsorships, the opportunities, the people that you meet. I mean, I have met some of the most amazing people by hosting them on my podcast and talking to them. I've hired many of the people that I have talked to on my podcast because I'm usually interviewing somebody because I'm interested in what they're doing. If I'm not interested in what they're doing, I'm not going to interview them. So, you don't even really think about it sometimes. But half the time, we are all kind of hiring each other when we find out that this is somebody that's really great at what they do and, oh, I'd like to know more.

Traci DeForge: Right. Well, and I can connect the dots on that even more so in this way, which is that when you get referred business, if you're looking for an interior designer, for example, or you're looking for someone that can help you grow your interior design business, a referral is going to make a really big difference to you, because in a lot of ways, you know, like and trust the person who referred you. So, you're assuming they know you, they know the person and so therefore, that referral is going to be strong and solid. “Produce Your Podcast” was built on referrals for literally the first six years we were in business, which I'm really very proud of.

The thing that podcasting does is put the icing on that cupcake of referrals in this way, because your voice and how you share your expertise, how you deliver the energy you bring to the mic, the types of guests that you engage with, or if you're guesting on another podcast and showcasing your expertise, what that does is it gives the person the opportunity to get to know you on a much more human level. Because our voice is our most vulnerable space in terms of, it's where if we get nervous or if we feel stuck, it's something that cannot be hidden. The authenticity of what comes out of your mouth in the tone of your voice cannot literally be replicated in terms of, yes, there's AI, and that's a crazy side road, but the reality is that people can hear your energy, they can hear your expertise, they can engage with your content, but at the end of the day, when they're hiring someone, they want to feel like they know the person that they're hiring and they want to know that that person is going to do a good job for them.

The best way to know that is to hear how they engage with other people, and how they answer those expert questions. As you mentioned, it's such a powerful way for people to connect with you. And even more so, the platform, I think people discount. There is a certain level of intimacy that occurs when you are listening to a person's voice in your ear, most often on your earbuds, most often multitasking. So if you think about it, you're bringing a stranger into your home, into your laundry room, into your car, like you were saying, you get your car, and then all of a sudden, this person's voice is heard. You're even trusting the time that you're investing with this person who you may not have ever met, but once they resonate with your head, heart, and gut, that's equally as powerful, if not more powerful, than a referral. So, I think it's really underestimated how just leveraging your own voice and the messages and how much it matters to really speak through podcasting and use your voice.

Michele Williams: It's so interesting that you say that. When I go to speaking events, I'll have people come up to me and go, you're Michele. And I'm like, yes. And they're like, oh, I'm sorry, we're best friends. You just don't know it.

Traci DeForge: Sure. Yeah. Well, Kelly and Joanne had that experience. Yep.

Michele Williams: I could pick your voice out anywhere. And I'm like, you could? And they're like, you talk to me all the like, even to the point that I always get a giggle out of this, but they'll say, yeah, even when I go to do something, I'm like, oh, Michele says not to do that.

Traci DeForge: They hear your voice in their head.

Michele Williams: I know, I can't even stand to hear my voice, but it always makes me laugh when they're like, I love it, it's so southern, and it's so this, and it's so that. So, it's funny how different people react to your voice. I could hear them go, oh, I could hear you hesitate when you said that. So, to your point, there are certain things you can't hide when you're speaking. And they're like, oh, you didn't sound like you like that. I know. I went to physical therapy this morning for my hip, and my physical therapist said I had on a University of South Carolina Gamecock sweatshirt, that's where my husband and I went to college.

Traci DeForge: Georgia girl's here. I'm like, you know. I know.

Michele Williams: So, I've got my big gamecock on. I'm going in. It's 08:00 this morning. It's chilly outside. He looks at me and he's like, you're a Gamecock. I looked up at him and I said, you are throwing shade with your voice, I want to know what that's about. And then he looked at me, he said, I'm, University of Florida. I was like, I got you. You don't even have to say anymore. UGA, Florida, all you got to do is say it and Clemson. Those are the three. Say it and I’ll understand.

Traci DeForge: I produced the University of Georgia sports network for years. I am so ultra familiar with the SEC's competitive nature, which is one of the reasons why I love that chapter of my life. Don't miss it.

Michele Williams: I know, but I could hear in his voice. I wasn't even looking at him. But the way that he said it to me, I was like, okay, yep, there's something behind the question. Like, I hear it. That is enough. So, then we started talking about football and basketball, and it led to other conversations, but I immediately heard the difference in the tone of the question that he asked. So, you're so right. It comes out. It's almost like a fingerprint, right? It's like that identifier, if you will, for each of us.

Traci DeForge: It is. Well, it becomes your logo of sorts. If you think about the Nike stripe, if you see the Nike stripe, but you don't see the word Nike at this point in time, it's recognizable. It's the brand. One of the things that I think is so important, especially in the interior design business, is that having a personal brand is as important as any other aspect of your marketing strategy. Because of how you present yourself, how your style is reflected, what color palettes you wear, and how you show up, your personal brand is an extension of your business brand, and your business brand should be an extension of your personal brand. Those two things are not separate.

What podcasting can do is build the bridge between those two, because they get to know you as a human through your storytelling, though, again, the expertise aspect, of course, is powerful, but it's just the idea of being able to feel like they do know you. I think this is especially important for interior designers who also offer coaching and training programs because we actually produce two other interior design podcasts. One's called “The Damn Good Designer” and one's called “Design You”. Both of those interior designers have programs that not only do they still do full-service interior design, but they also have coaching and mentoring programs. So, those programs are not small ticket offers. And so, if you're an interior designer and you're just starting out and you want to grow your business, you want to align yourself with a mentor or coaching program, with someone that is successful. Yes. That has achieved success by your definition, yes. But more importantly, it's an energetic connection, because how I might teach, how I might design, or how I might inspire or motivate is going to connect differently than how someone else does. And if I'm about to invest that type of money into a program, I want to know that that person is going to get me and I'm going to get them, and it's going to be a really good, collaborative, positive relationship. What better way than to be able to listen to or watch their podcast episodes in advance, and hear client testimonials? I think that’s also another underserved opportunity, especially in the design business, because there's a lot out there when you're making those types of decisions about who to use.

You're bringing them into your home, for example, or you're bringing them into your workspace, there are just so many different dynamics. So, to be able to leverage your podcast through bringing on clients that are raving about you and, you're listening and you're like, I really like that client. I really think that the project that they did with that designer is so cool. Or success in a coaching and a mentor program and showcasing the results that they got, none of that is, you just can't put a price on the absolute, just validation that you could give somebody, and you could also just change their perspective with one thought. I know with your podcast you do that all the time. It's like if you change that person's perspective with one thought and you make a difference to that one person, that could change their life.

Michele Williams: Yes.

Traci DeForge: Yes, that feels like a little bit of responsibility on your shoulder. But think about the impact you can make on one person at a time, one voice at a time. I mean, it's just absolutely why I love what I do so much.

Michele Williams: I agree. And it's one of the reasons I've done multiple types of podcasts over the years. I think we all have; different seasons that call for different things. I've often said that when I'm tired and when it feels like drudgery, when it doesn't feel like enjoyment anymore, then I'll know my time's up, I'll know that that's enough. But I'm able to usually still keep finding things that interest me or that I love or that I want to talk about or that other people want to hear about, and I have shared interest in that. But I do think that people can tell when you don't want to be there. So, I think when I feel like I don't want to be there, then I'm going to hang it up and I'll be done. I just haven't reached it yet.

Traci DeForge: Well, and I think, too, again, you are responsible for the energy that you bring to a room. You're responsible for the energy you bring to your microphone because that is your room. You are in a room. When we're putting people through our discovery process, when they're launching a new podcast, one of the exercises that we have is we're like, picture yourself on stage. You're back pulling the curtain back, looking out at the people coming in, sitting down. Who are those people? Are those your people? Why are they there? Because you are talking to a room full of people. You just can't physically see them. So, you are responsible for the energy that you bring to the mic. But the other point that I could say is to check your fatigue because pod-fade is a real thing. But a lot of times people pod-fade because they don't have the support and the tools and the resources that they need to keep going so it stops being fun, but not because they are running out of content or they don't want to necessarily share their voice anymore, but they're just bogged down by the crossing the t's and the dotting the I's. So, if you're starting to advance into that space or think about that, that's affecting you, really evaluate, like, where is the fatigue coming from? If I'm pod fading, is it because I'm really not having fun anymore? And if I'm not having fun, what's keeping me from having fun? If it's a subset of tasks, especially with creatives, oh, my gosh, we just want to show up and have fun.

Michele Williams: Isn’t that true, you're right, in any of ours? I'm done with design. I'm tired of design. Is it really that you're tired of design, or did you have a really bad client? Or was it that you got bogged down in purchase orders and you really wished you could have been doing something else?

Traci DeForge: Do you have the wrong person on your team? Do you have the wrong vendor? Just go beyond the feelings and really look at the facts, and then determine whether or not you want to throw everything away, or maybe you just need to pivot or restructure.

Michele Williams: I love that. I love that. So, Traci, tell everybody if they're interested in knowing more about podcasting or connecting with, you know, or just even exploring it, how do they get in touch with you?

Traci DeForge: Yes, absolutely. Well, as I mentioned, Produce Your Podcast is a full-service podcast production and marketing agency. So, we serve podcasters in every aspect of their journey. So, if you want to launch a show and you don't want to do any of the heavy lifting, we can do everything, from soup to nuts. If you already have a podcast and you need some growth acceleration support or some sponsorship monetization support, we can meet the needs wherever you are in your podcast journey. So, the best thing to do is to go check out produceyourpodcast.com. There are multiple places on the website where you can check out some of the shows that I mentioned today, on our portfolio pages, but more importantly, you can book a call to continue this conversation. It's not a sales pitch, not at all. We just really want to inspire, motivate, and invigorate people to podcast or keep podcasting. So, it's your block of time. You get to book the call and talk about anything that you want and how podcasting could possibly serve you or grow your business.  I just would love that opportunity.

Michele Williams: That sounds awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing today and bringing your energy and joy to the conversation, and I really appreciate it.

Traci DeForge: Absolutely. It's my favorite thing to talk about. So, thank you for giving me the platform to do it.

Michele Williams: You're so welcome. Have a good day.

Traci DeForge: Thank you.

Michele Williams: Thanks again, Traci, for such a great conversation. Having a podcast can be a lot of work, but having a strong team behind you, and helping you pull all the pieces and parts together can make a real difference. Check out Traci's offering on her website for signing up for a discovery call just to talk about it.

Being intentional about your marketing and your sales strategies, as well as your financials and your pricing is what is going to lead you and your business to further growth as you consider the revenue streams that you want to bring in and the potential profits that those will make, let us serve you in our CFO2GO to go program in putting all those pieces and parts together. Learn how to create a financial picture for your business so that the puzzle pieces fit snugly. You can go to scarletthreadconsulting.com and click on the CFO tab to learn more about it. Choose to engage in profitable activities because profit doesn't happen by accident. Profit is a Choice is proud to be part of thedesignnetwork.org, where you can discover more design media reaching creative listeners. Thanks for listening and stay creative and business minded.