262: Big Thinking Big Results

Michele Williams: Hello, my name is Michele, and you're listening to Profit is a Choice.

On the podcast today is Andrea Liebross. She's a business and life coach who works with high-achieving women entrepreneurs. She's the host of the podcast “Time to Level Up”, and just published a fantastic book called She Thinks Big. We're going to be talking about intention, integration, priorities, and agency in our business journey in our conversation with Andrea. I'm excited to have you join us.

Every day empowered entrepreneurs are taking ownership of their company financial health and enjoying the rewards of reduced stress and more creativity. With my background as a financial software developer, owner of multiple businesses in the interior design industry, educator, and speaker, I coach women in the interior design industry to increase their profits, regain ownership of their bottom line, and to have fun again in their business. Welcome to Profit is a Choice. Hi, Andrea. Welcome to the podcast.

Andrea Liebross: Hey, Michele. I am thrilled to be here.

Michele Williams: I'm happy to be here, too. We're doing back-to-back podcasts. We just filmed one for you and your crowd of listeners, and now we're doing it for mine. That's super exciting for me.

Andrea Liebross: It is. I love how we just have continued conversations, too.

Michele Williams: Well, before we jump in, you and I met at Luann's Power Talk Friday that was in Dallas in April.

Andrea Liebross: Yes.

Michele Williams: And it was so funny because you gave everybody a book and I got this beautiful book that you signed for me. But even before we had talked, we didn't really look at the book or go into the book in that one day. And you and I had a conversation, and we were both like, hey, we need to talk as soon as we get back. Like, we need to connect. Then it just worked out that we're connecting honestly for the real first time on both of our podcasts.

Andrea Liebross: That's true.

Michele Williams: Isn't that crazy?

Andrea Liebross: That's true. That's true. Yes.

Michele Williams: Before we jump in and have you tell all about yourself, I'm going to give a shout-out to Kate Grunke. So, Kate, with Kate the Socialite, she and I met years ago, right as she had just started doing her business in the interiors industry. I coached with her or coached her and worked with her as well for years. And when she met you, she emailed me and she's like, you've got to meet Andrea. You're going to love her like she's the real deal. You're going to love her. I knew that in my mind, but our paths had just not crossed.

Andrea Liebross: Oh, I didn't know that. That's great. That's great.

Michele Williams: Yeah. So then to get to see you, and then I think she might have worked with you some, too.

Andrea Liebross: She did

Michele Williams: Then to get to see you at Luan Live and meet you, I was like, okay, I can see why she loved her so much.

Andrea Liebross: Yeah. We worked together for a while, like, more than maybe a little more than a year, and she was on my podcast. I met her because I was on her podcast, and after I was on her podcast, she reached out to me and she said, I think I actually need you.

Michele Williams: So, isn't that so funny how that works?

Andrea Liebross: Yes, yes, yes.

Michele Williams: I've hired multiple people that I've had on the podcast, and I've been hired by multiple people on my phone.

Andrea Liebross: Podcast. Yes. So funny. It's funny.

Michele Williams: Yeah. It's just a great way to connect.

Andrea Liebross: It really is. And to understand what someone does and how they help people. It's 100%.

Michele Williams: Yeah. So, Andrea, before we jump in, I've got some things to share with you and I told you I wasn't even going to share them off-camera. I was going to wait till we could be on camera and on air to share with you. But tell us a little bit about your story and how you got to the point where you are today.

Andrea Liebross: So, okay. How deep do we want to go? How far back do we want to go? I will just start with, really, the work experience that I had prior to starting my own coaching business in 2018. I worked for a company where I was recruiting and hiring and training new business owners. So, they almost were like franchise owners. Technically, on paper, legally, they weren't franchise owners, but that was kind of the premise of this business. And the part I loved the most, I stayed for ten years. And the part I loved the most after reflecting this was not occurring while I was there.

But after reflecting, I really loved helping them grow their business, kind of get past what I would now call the messy middle of the business, and get to that next level. What I realized, though, is that you know, in that process, me, myself, and I did not enjoy necessarily working for that company after a while, because I was being forced to stay within the box, I'll call it, that that corporate entity was providing me. So, if my new hire or I had some great idea that we brought to the table, either we got, oh, that's a great idea, but we can't really do that right now, or that sounds too risky or I'm not sure, we'll have to do a lot of research before we let you kind of thing. So, I was getting put into this, what I'll call small thinking box, and not being able to think bigger. And then that was rubbing off on the work I was doing in my own role in helping these entrepreneurs grow and start, then grow their businesses. And I didn't love it. After a while, the joke was if I have one more great big idea that they tell me “So sad, too bad, can't do it” I'm out. And then one day, I was out. I was out.

Michele Williams: Can I ask you, did you feel like you were trying to work with your hands tied?

Andrea Liebross: Yes, that's exactly. Exactly.

Michele Williams: Cause that's the picture that is coming up to me, is we want you to do your best. No, don't do that. No, don't do that. But keep it in the box. Keep it in the box. Keep it in the box.

Andrea Liebross: Yes. That's exactly what was happening. I mean, my hands were tied, and my mouth was taped over sometimes.

Michele Williams: Yeah, yeah.

Andrea Liebross: don't tell anyone that. Don't say that. Don't, whatever.

Michele Williams: Don't offer that.

Andrea Liebross: Don't offer that. Exactly. So especially once these businesses started to roll. Okay. So, we kind of follow the formula. We'll call it. And then they needed to get creative and a little more curious on how to get to that next level and what was going to work for them and what was going to align, not only in their business but with their family and their personal life. I loved that sort of crossroads, but yet I felt like I couldn't do what I wanted to do. So, after a while, I was like, I'm, out. And I hired my first coach at that point. I’ve never worked with a coach. We were in a conference room. I still can picture it. And there was a big whiteboard. And she's like, let's just brainstorm all the things that you loved about. Why did you stay there for ten years? What did you love about this? So, I'm, talking, talking, talking, and she's writing, writing, writing. And then I see her in the little corner, down in the right-hand corner, she writes, coach. Okay, like, in little letters. I said, “What’s going on?”. She said, really? All these things you're talking about, these are all the things a coach does. You should start your own coaching business. Really? I said, really? She's like, yeah, you totally should. It took me a little bit to buy into that idea. I had started two other businesses before, so I was like, another one. I don't know. Maybe it'd just be easier to work for someone. Let's just work for someone. That's way easier. So, kind of the juncture of that is I did work for another coach for a handful of months while I went and got officially certified, and I decided I did not like working for someone else. I wanted to work for myself. So that is when I started this coaching business, now, more than six years ago. And so, every day, what I do every day now is I work with female entrepreneurs who are not all newbies, they're not all veterans, they run the gamut. Some people are making their first hundred k, some people are making multiple seven figures and really help them with the biggest part of business, which I think is mindset. I say it's 80% mindset and 20% systems. Like, you totally need both. But if you don't have that mindset component, then your business is not going to be successful because you can have all the systems in the world. You can, you know, and hire out everything, but if you're still operating from that same brain with those same thoughts that you had on day one, you're not going to grow. So, I help people really think bigger and create that freedom of time and money and energy that they want in their businesses.

Michele Williams: And you do it well.

Andrea Liebross: Thank you.

Michele Williams: Even though I've not worked directly with you, I started reading the book because you, of course, gave me this beautifully signed book. And as I told your listeners, I haven't even marked it up. And my listeners know that I am a get out that marker and scribble all over it. Instead, what I decided to do with your book is because I believe it's one I'm going to go through more than once as I got a journal and started journaling in it.  Because I really wanted to. I wanted to write more than I could scribble and mark up. This is so weird for me because I've never done this with a book this way, and yours felt different to me. I mean, I'm being real, and I don't know why it felt different other than I thought I also did not want to highlight anything in the book because the next time I read it, I wanted it to be fresh, because when you highlight and you tend to go back and pick it up, your eye is drawn to what you've highlighted, and that's kind of what you see all over again. And I kind of felt like I wanted to go through your book a second time and give myself the gift of discovery again. And I think it's a beautiful gift that I'm giving to myself, and I didn't even recognize how much I needed it. And I think your book is a perfect book to do that with.

Andrea Liebross: One of the concepts in the book, I talk about how our businesses are kind of like spirals, like spiraling up, and that next time you go through your book, you're going to be in a different spiral.

Michele Williams: That's right.

Andrea Liebross: Right. So, you're going to have a different set of eyes and ears and thoughts.

Michele Williams: Exactly. And I didn't want to limit that by marking in the book. I guess something in me was just like, don't mark in this book. And I was like, okay, okay, Michele, I won't mark in the book.

Andrea Liebross: I love that.

Michele Williams: You know, we've been talking on this podcast about the messy middle for years because it happens. We get these big dreams. We talk about what we want to do, and what we want to build, and we start down that path, and it's not easy. I'm reading another book right now. When I finished yours, I'll tell you the name of it. Let me look it up. I've got it in my pictures, but it's in my other room where I do my morning study. It's called Your Next Five Moves: Master the Art of Business Strategy. It's a good adjunct after this book.

Andrea Liebross: Okay.

Michele Williams: Yeah, you have to check it out. But just going through the two of them and giving myself a chance to think bigger and deeper and wider. I think what's so interesting, Andrea, is I've been in business for a long time. The messy middle is going to come. It's going to come for every one of us. He even made the comment in the other book, that's the point I was going to make, is that we think I'm going to start my own business because it'll be easier, and there is nothing easier about it. But what it does is it gives you the freedom to put your vision into the world. I was thinking the whole time you were kind of describing your first ten years, your vision aligned with the vision of the company until it didn't.

Andrea Liebross: Exactly.

Michele Williams: Right?

Andrea Liebross: Yes. Yes.

Michele Williams: And then my vision aligned with other visions until they didn't. And there's a great book we just did in our book club called Necessary Endings by Dr. Henry Cloud. Have you read that book?

Andrea Liebross: No. I have not read that book.

Michele Williams: Okay. If you're a reader, put that on your list. Necessary Endings. And what he talks about is there are times when you have to have an ending so that you can have the next beginning. Kind of like, you talked about the adventure, right? Or the journey. We can't go on that journey, dragging everything from the past. That's the same whole reason we clear out our house before we move to the next house, so we're not just transferring junk from one place to the other. And so, as our business does, that evolution, that spiral that you talk about, right? That iterative process of going through, up-leveling, we've got to let some things go to be able to move forward.

Andrea Liebross: Yeah. I like to say that the past is a teacher, but it is not a fortune teller.

Michele Williams: I know. I wrote that down in my notes. That was a good one.

Andrea Liebross: Yeah. So, the past is a teacher. It's not a fortune teller. And the present is really just, what we're comfortable with. Even if you don't love where you are, your brain and body, it's used to being in that place. So, you really can't do much big thinking by looking at the past. You can't really think big, actually, sometimes from the very present, you have to go access that future you. This is hard, especially for women. This is super hard to go find that future you. Because we're just trying to get through the day. I mean, come on.

Michele Williams: We're just trying to get through the day, right? But I think that we had just done Necessary Endings in the book club, and I come back and I've got another book here  I'm going throw it out. The Seven Primal Questions. All right, so I did Necessary Endings. I did another one called It's Okay to Be The Boss. We're just in April, and I've read all these books. Then I did It's Okay to Be The Boss. It's the seven questions, Andrea, that every one of us is in his world, we're driven by one question. And I'm going to tell you why this was so important for me before I read your book. The seven questions that he tells us to unpack are, am I safe? Am I secure? Am I loved? Am I wanted? Am I successful? Am I good enough? And do I have a purpose? It's kind of like your why before the age of 18, we've all been imprinted where our minds and bodies are trying to answer. We're always cycling through all seven, but there's one that each of us has. That is a primal question that our bodies and subconscious are working to get to yes.

Andrea Liebross: Yep.

Michele Williams: So, if we can figure out what that one question is for us, then instead of being held back from our next adventure or big thinking, we can use it to fuel us in a different way by answering the question ourselves. And I'll give you an example. My primal question is am I safe? Okay. I don't walk around the world thinking am I safe? That's not how I engage with the world, but it clearly is how I subconsciously engage with the world. It might be, am I safe physically? Am I safe emotionally? Like, how am I taking in the world around me? So, when I started digging into what does that mean for me? How does it show up in my life? I've talked to my coaches about it, that kind of thing. Then I did She Thinks Big.

Andrea Liebross: Okay. I love it.

Michele Williams: So that when I read it and it's talking about fear holding you back.

Andrea Liebross: Which fear we got. We have nine named fears in there.

Michele Williams: That's right. What fear is it that's really holding me back? And what is the root of that fear?

Andrea Liebross: Okay.

Michele Williams: So, we went through, and because I knew. All right, well, my fear, I'm, going to put in air quotes for those listening, not watching. My fear is the fear of safety. So, now let me with the lens of am I safe? Look at where I've made plans or look at what I've done. What was I afraid of in the realm of safety? And so, it just, like, opened up my whole world at that point to go, wait a minute. My body might not feel safe, but my brain says I can put some risk tolerance in place. I can be safe, so then I can move forward. So, it's like, what I did was, I looked to the future, but I answered the question for myself, which allowed my thinking to open up to take the next step. So, there's, like, my concoction, Necessary Endings what's got to go, Primal Question what am I really afraid of, what's really driving me, and then She Thinks Big, all right let's put all that crap over here to the side, let's go.

Andrea Liebross: I love that.

Michele Williams: There you go. That's what just happened to me.

Andrea Liebross: So good. Those primal questions remind me of the motivational triad, which is these three things. Say there are three things that everybody wants. You want to be safe, and comfortable, you want things to be easy, and efficient. Right. That they have to feel good to you. So that's exactly what those primal. Yeah, it is. It is.

Michele Williams: That's right.

Andrea Liebross: Yeah.

Michele Williams: It's a lot of the same kind of thing. That's why it was just interesting that I have been in groups, that these have been like what's been coming at me. Coming at me. And then we meet. You hand me your book.

Andrea Liebross: Divine intervention.

Michele Williams: I know. Exactly. I'm going to let you talk about your book. I'm going to shut up. But it's only because I'm so in love with this book. I mean, I really am what I think was so good about it and I'm just going tell you, and I'm saying it because I want the listeners to go get this book. Right. We're going to put a link at the bottom.

Andrea Liebross: Okay.

Michele Williams: But what I loved was you led through, like you started at the beginning. I teach strategy, too. Right. I get it. But when somebody who teaches strategy reads a book about strategy, that kind of just gives you a different way to think and look like, I know that on the podcast, I can give you insights on the financial side, and you're like, oh, oh, well, you did the same for me over here. And so being able to just write it down, you ask thought-provoking questions that are different than some of the questions I've been asked before. And maybe it was also timing, Andrea, I was just in a place that I wanted to explore and do it. But I love that you stepped us through the process in the book. That's what I would say.

Andrea Liebross: Yeah, I organized it, and this was hard for me to organize, to be honest. Like, I'll go back to writing it. The publisher I was working with was pushing me to create an outline. Create an outline. Create an outline. And it took me months, because what we do, what I do with my clients, is not linear, necessarily. It's not like we're going to do this, this, this, and this in this particular order, and everybody's the same. It's very circular, and it looks different for everybody. And a lot of the value I add to someone is by listening to what they're giving me and then asking them questions. But I need that input.

Andrea Liebross: So, writing a book, there was no input. I just had to do output. And when I finally got to the place, though, I said, all right, there's three big things here. There's your big mindset. The first part is mindset, then you have to plan. Then I called it big plan, and then there's big results. It's like, okay, if I think about things, I create the plan, put the plan into action. What happens? There are the results. And how do I deal with those? Almost like, how do I deal with the aftermath of the big thinking?

Michele Williams: That is so true, because I hear a lot, and I know you see a lot that, like, fear of success, like, what happens if it all goes right? How am I going to handle that? I had somebody a week or so ago say, Michele, I've got all these sales coming in. I had to stop the sales. And I'm like, whoa, what are you doing? Let's go higher. Like, don't stop the sales. Like, let them come in. I mean, within reason. Set timeframes. But goodness, don't. You're holding, you're telling me that you want to grow, but you're holding yourself back from saying, yes, these aren't aligning right, and as they would say the math's not mathing on that. So, we need to work on that. I want to make a comment about one thing. Well, there's a lot of things that stick out to me in the book, but there was one thing that, again, because of some of the other work that I'm doing, it was a very good reminder for me.

I am an extremely high-achieving woman. I know you to be that as well. I know the majority of our listeners on both of our podcasts are the same thing, even if they don't see themselves that way. If you're going to start a company and start a business and do this, you're high achieving. Let's just lay the groundwork. And in that high achievement, it is very difficult to I'm going to put in air quotes, balance all the things. So, we all know in life coaching, they give you that wheel of life kind of thing. Like here you're seven to ten things. It varies, but your well-being, your spirituality, your community, your friends, your family, your faith, all the other stuff. Well, I had gone through the process just recently of writing all of those down, putting the date, and scoring myself similar to what you had in the book. And then I did some of the exercises already on my own. But you recommend them in the book. What would a ten look like in these areas? And what is one direct action you're going to take? So, I did all that, and then I wrote down how, a week later I wrote down how each of those things made me feel like if you were to say fun to me, what descriptive words came to me? And then I wrote that down. Well, what I loved about that exercise, even though I've done that exercise for 15-16 years, what I loved about it was your comment, and you drew a picture. You actually had a picture drawn in there that is not so much what the numbers are, but kind of are they clumped together so that it looks more like a wheel versus like something is a one and something is a ten and it clunks around as it goes through.

Andrea Liebross: Yes.

Michele Williams: Because lately, when I've been looking at the big, next big moves, we got some big stuff coming over here, and when I started looking at what are the next big things that are coming, I can feel myself being pulled towards work and almost doing the ten and the one and having to catch myself and going, Michele, that's not healthy. Like, you might have a blip of a ten, but you need to keep things a little bit more in the same area.

So then when I went back and looked at my numbers, everything was like a six, seven, eight. And I was like, okay, I can deal with that because that's a smoother ride than a one and a ten. I think when we all talk about keeping your life balanced, it's so much more than just that word.

Andrea Liebross: It is. It is. So, there's. I like to think of it more as life-work integration.

Michele Williams: Yes.

Andrea Liebross: Okay. Or integrating all of these things versus balance. Because if you think about a teeter-totter at a playground, that balancing, it's only balanced for a split second before one side goes up and one side goes down. I don't love balance. I really love this thought of how things can be integrated. And when we do that exercise that you're talking about, and I ask my clients, I do a version of that, and I ask my clients that it is a rare day. Like, I probably count on one hand that someone has given everything a five or everything an eight or everything a two. There is bound to be some discrepancy between the numbers. So, let's say the wheel is, we've got eights, we got threes, we got twos, it's a lopsided wheel, and it's kind of clunking along. Then the next piece of that is, I say to them, no wonder you feel the way you feel. No wonder your business is going the way it's going. No wonder your relationship is the way it is because things aren't smooth and wheels are supposed to create energy, right? The faster a wheel goes, the more energy it creates. Well, if it's not rolling, then it's taking energy from you. It's sucking energy away from you, and that's not what we want.

We want to always create more energy. So, it's just a good visual to give people an understanding of why they feel the way they feel or why they're getting the result they're getting, and then help them. Number one, probably see that we don't have to climb Mount Everest to get this wheel rolling again so that they're all eight, seven, sixes, like, that's all that that wheel would roll. It's not going to take tons. It's really just going to involve you in deciding what are the priorities. What are the priorities? In the book, too, I don't know if you remember this part. I talk about how some people have a kind of fear around the word goal. Like, I don't want to set any goals. I don't want to set it. But if I say, okay, well, then what are your priorities? If we phrase it like that, it sounds so much more approachable.

Michele Williams: It's accessible, right?

Andrea Liebross: Yeah, it's accessible and ultimately, it's going to get you to the same place. So, if financial people usually say to me, I just want to understand my numbers, okay, so we'll just go with their language. Just want to understand my numbers. If that's something that's going to create peace in you, then let's just make that a priority. Because actually, to be honest, it would be really hard to create a measurable goal around understanding our finances. Like, what is that really? How do we know we're done? We don't know. Okay. But it's a priority. And then you can assess, how do you feel about that a month, two months, six months later? So, I think this just, that whole exercise really helps hone in on what do you want to focus on and what needs to be a priority. Especially when my clients come to me, you know, they're usually in a state of overwhelm. They're usually in a state of overwhelm. They can't even necessarily figure out why. If they give me an answer about why, it's very specific and probably not really the whole truth. Well, if I could just get my social media together, then I wouldn't feel so overwhelmed. I'm like, okay, all right, but there's probably more to it than that, right? So just understanding what's the priority. Is it organization in your business? Yes. Social media is a component of that. Is it organization at home? If you've got a better handle on what's going on at home, how would it affect all the other parts of your life? And another thing that happens, too, is they come to me for a business reason. Nine times out of ten, our discussion and coaching do evolve into life coaching, because life is part of business. So that's why this is all kind of tangled up. I call it the big ball of yarn, and that's why the wheel, in order to roll, needs to have some semblance in all categories.

Michele Williams: Yeah, I agree with that. I think the thing that, of course, it's been like, you, know, you could choose a word, it's been my word for a couple of years, but it's that word of intention, being intentional about what you do. I think that was a good part of the book because you are asking us to intentionally stop and look inside and ask. Because there is a piece of it that would have been easier in your example before for you to not listen to your own intuition, your own judgment, your own feelings, your own thoughts, and to quiet those, you probably did quiet those for a while. Well, I know that you did when you said, just one more time, we're quieting that voice so that we can have the ease. Like, I've got two out of three, quiet the voice and run the race. Just keep going. But there comes a point where these things aren't aligning. I talk about it like when you go to the chiropractor there are times that inside all that's not aligning, and we have to be intentional about having that necessary ending so that we can have a new beginning so that we can track a new path and create a new course forward. It takes intention. Same way with the financials. We have to be intentional about where we're spending, about where we're saving, about where the money comes and where the money goes to support things. I love how you take us kind of from the beginning to the end. When you talked about, you know, all of the big, like, questions and, you know, the processes and thinking through all of it is you're making a choice with an intention, and then the next choice follows along an intention, like, they're not opposite. It's an intention that leads to the next thing to support it. That leads to the next thing to support it.

Andrea Liebross: This concept is kind of something I've been flushing out recently. It's not really in the book, I sort of mention it, but decisions versus choices.

Michele Williams: Yeah, that's a good one.

Andrea Liebross: Okay, I'll give you kind of a life example first. So, if you are married, you decided, okay, if you're in a monogamous relationship, you know, you decided long, long ago that, you know, you were going to marry this person. When you're invited to the office Christmas party and you can bring a date, your choice of who the date is going to be is pretty easy. Like, probably going to be your partner, right? So, you've made a big decision that's led to easy choices. And I think when we talk about our own lives or business, you know, what are your big decisions? Like what's important to you that you can, what are the big decisions that you can make that then make those choices really easy? So, I just had a client. She's stressing about summer. Okay, so she's stressing about the health of her business over the summer for two reasons. Number one, she thinks that sales are going to go down because people are going to be at the beach. And number two, she thinks that she's got her kids at home, so she's not going to be able to focus on her business. And I said to her, okay, so number one, you decided a long time ago that you wanted to have kids. And number two, you decided that you wanted to start a business. So, we already made those decisions, but now let's make a decision around time. Like, how much time do you want to spend working this summer? Like, what do you want to do? She's like, well, I mean, ideally, I just maybe nine to two each day. Okay. I said, so when Sarah comes in and says, Mom, can we go to the park at 11:00 a.m., what are you going to say? She's like, well, I guess I would just say, hey, this is when I'm working from nine to two. We can go to the park later. So that just made that choice in that moment so much easier because she had made that big decision around what her working hours were. And then you can do things with also less guilt, right?

Michele Williams: Yeah, that's a great strategy because I remember I've done that same kind of thing. You know, I have podcasts out there about when summer and taking my business on vacation and doing all the things. But a lot of it comes down to what is it that I really want. What is that big decision and now what are the choices that are within that decision? Because I didn't make that decision. I made this one. Like, I didn't make the decision in your early one to not be married. So now the field is wide open. I can grab Tinder and swipe right. Those are really not my choices at this point. When I've said yes to this man, I can take you with me.

Andrea Liebross: Right. And I think the other, another interesting piece of this is that it eliminates clutter in your brain. It just eliminates clutter in your brain, and it allows you if we're talking about big thinking, let's think big about summer. What if all of a sudden, we kind of shift how you're positioning your offer and it is the thing that everybody wants when they go to the beach? Or, like, how could we make summer your best season ever? Like, you've already written it off. But that's a limiting belief, and I talk a little bit about that in the book. That's a limiting belief. You've already created your glass ceiling. We don't need to have that. Let's think beyond. Let's embrace the thought that you are a business owner and that in every season your business is equal. There's no downside. So that's big thinking. And if you can make big decisions, it makes these choices easier, which are going to support, ultimately, the big thinking.

Michele Williams: Along with that, I think what's important is for us to realize that we're making the choices and decisions from a place of power.

Andrea Liebross: Yes, yes, yes.

Michele Williams: Right. Especially the decisions we're making from a place of power. Nobody's forcing us to choose to start a business in most cases. I'm talking in generalities here, but we're making those decisions from a place of intention and a place of desire and a place of power. And you know, the hard part is when you feel like you've got to make a decision or have a choice from things that you don't like. Or that aren't comfortable, or that you feel like you're pushed into a corner and you're having to come out. But if we can stop and look at that domino effect of just this decision led to these choices, this decision leads to these choices. It actually gives us back our agency. Now we're looking at it as well, wait, I made that decision, and this is the ripple effect. And now what am I going to do with that? I mean, that's the way that I talk about it all the time. There's. I have a tagline. What you own, you can change. I own the decision; therefore, I can change the decision. I own my choice. I could change the choice, but I own it. Which puts me in the power position of, this is my decision to make or my choice to make, and I'm not going to feel like it's happening to me. I'm going to feel like I'm participating in this process. A mental shift of power.

Andrea Liebross: It is. It is a mental shift of power. In chapter seven, I talk about creating your power sentence, too, which is like, I am a business owner who, blah, blah, blah. Right? So, it's not, I could be, I want to be, I am those kinds of sentences. But when you were talking, I was thinking about committed versus interested.

Michele Williams: Oh, that was so good. That was good.

Andrea Liebross: Yeah. This kind of aligns with that concept. A lot of times when I am on a coaching call, all I'm doing is helping someone decide are they committed or are they interested. So, are they committed to understanding their numbers, or are they just interested because they think it's something they should be doing? All good business owners understand that. Okay. Are you really committed? If you're committed, then they might reach out to you or, you know, they're going to take those action steps.

Michele Williams: Well, they usually can define an action step. When you commit enough, action steps start to flow, at least something that you can do to make that commitment a reality.

Andrea Liebross: Your to-do list kind of makes itself. It makes itself. If you're just interested. And this isn't like a judgment thing either. It's okay to be just interested, but, and you can always move to committed, but if you're just interested, it's going be something that you kind of stew on. It takes up space in your brain, or you've got it on your list, and it keeps moving every day. It just keeps going up. I didn't do that yesterday; I didn't do it today. I'm going to move it to tomorrow. You kind of just ruminate on it when someone says, hey, I know I need to hire someone. I know I need to hire someone. I'm at that place. I need to hire someone. Okay, so, my next question is always what's getting in the way of doing that? And a lot of times there are two answers. One is, what's getting in the way? Probably me. Okay. The other answer is, I don't know. X, y, and z, and I think I need to know them. I said, okay, so right now you're just in this interested phase of hiring. What you're telling me is you're just interested. You're not committed, because if you were committed, you wouldn't be getting in the way. You would be pushing yourself aside and moving forward. And if you were committed, you would be on the trail to find out the answers to those questions. You wouldn't just be hanging out on a notepad.

So, this is a really, really important thing, especially for business owners to have the skill to differentiate where they are. Are they committed or are they interested? And this can be about big things or even little things, like are you committed to exercising every day? If you're committed, then you're going to be okay. If you only have 15 minutes, walk in because you're committed, and you're going to count that as exercise. If you're interested, you're going to say, well, I mean, if it's only 15 minutes, that's not enough. I think I'll just wait till tomorrow. So I love this concept of committed to interested. It requires you, though, to have what I call thought options. Like it requires you to access different thinking in your brain, and that's hard to do. Like I always say, you're stuck in your own peanut butter jar, and it's so sticky in there, you sometimes can't even climb out to see what's going on if the jelly's outside waiting for you. So, a lot of times you do need support in creating those thought options. You're creating thought options with your clients every day. We could look at it, think about it like this. Here's the facts. But we could think of it this way, or we could think of it that way.

Michele Williams: So, well, I'll tell you, for that particular concept, I loved it. It was another one in my journal. But I went back to my husband because some of the big ideas that I have, I'm going to need him. I described and I read out of your book that particular piece. This was our morning coffee conversation, and I asked him, here's what I have in front of me. Here's some big thinking, big ideas, big planning that's going on. This is where I see you participating. But I need to know if you're interested or if you're committed. Because if you're interested, and you don't want to change from interested to committed. You just want to stay interested. I'm going to go find another committed person to do this. But if you want to be that committed person, then I'm going to need the commitment. I said I'm going to give you a week or so to think about it if you're up for that. And he's like, yeah, let me have some time to think about, you know, what all this is going to require. Then he said, and then we'll talk again. And I'm like, that sounds great, but instead of me going, are you with me or are you not? Right. like, where's your support? Why aren't you? Now, at least I understand for him, for anybody that I'd had this con, I understand the level of support, the level of engagement, because there's a different level of support and engagement that goes with interested than what goes with committed. So now I'm not setting an expectation for committed when it was an expectation of interested. I'm just throwing that out there because that's how I immediately have already used that concept, just the differentiation between the two words. Because sometimes we mix those two words up and use them together, and somebody might, well, I did that for you. And you're like, no, but you didn't really. It's a missing of expectations.

Andrea Liebross: It is. And I think, too, that brings in the support element of this whole conversation. I always say that really what big thinking is, is you need to trust. And I may have this acronym, t r u s t. So the s stands for secure support. So, I know your husband's involved with you in your business, and, okay, but he's still your husband, right? And he's, I'm going, I would bet you a million dollars if I said to you, is he supportive? You'd say, yes. Okay, but here's the thing. Is he supporting you in the sense of a husband? Like, is he fulfilling that role? Which is cool, like, we're good with it, or is he going to support you in the role of, like, business partner or whatever you're asking him to do?

Michele Williams: Exactly. Exactly.

Andrea Liebross: He can be committed, but we need to define where the commitment is, which role he's playing, and he's committed to.

Michele Williams: Exactly, and that just even that language opened up the conversation for, in other words, where do you want to play in this game? And what does that look like? So that we're not putting expectations on each other. I remember even going backward, it's a little bit different word, but I remember saying to him one time when I had that pull up, I'm being mom, and I'm being wife, and I'm being a business owner, and I can't do it all, and I suck at everything, and I'm just going to shut it all down. I think we've all had that feeling. As a young mom, I had, you know, two little boys, and I asked my husband, I'm like, what do you need from me? Like, I feel like I am just falling apart here. I need to know what your expectations are. And he's like, I really don't expect much. He said, I really just want to come home from the office. I want the kids to be alive, and I want you guys to be happy. He said I'll help with dinner. I'll help with bath time. I'll help clean the dishes. I don't care if they're dishes in the sink. I just want to know that you and the boys are healthy and happy, and I'll help you with the rest. And I was like, oh, it took all the expectations off of me that if I couldn't get to something, I could prioritize. What it did was it gave me the gift of prioritizing. That's the same gift that you're suggesting, too, that we can give ourselves in business. What is the real expectation that if this falls off the to-do list because there's no time, what gets moved to the top that we protect so that we don't miss the whole thing here as we're going through it? It just was such a gift to stop and think through it again.

Andrea Liebross: I think, too, for our, listeners that don't have their spouses in their business but want them to be as committed to the business as they are. You are kidding yourself.

Michele Williams: That's right. That's right.

Andrea Liebross: You are totally kidding yourself. So, a lot of times someone might say to me, hey, Andrea, I am so interested in working with you. I'm just going to think about it for a day or two, and I'll get back to you. And so, I always ask permission if can I put my coach hat on. Like, can I take my consult hat off? Can I put my coach hat on? Sure. So, what exactly are you thinking about? This isn't a judgment, but I'm just curious. I want you to, like, access your brain. What exactly are you thinking about? So, usually, they don't really have a great answer. They're just trying to find support in some evidence that this is a good decision to move forward. And the next most common answer, I feel like I'm on the Price is Right Or Family Feud where they ask which answer is the next best. The next thing is, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Michele Williams: The next thing is, yeah, yeah, yeah, ding, ding, ding. Three out of four, right?

Andrea Liebross: The next answer is like. And then I need to talk to my partner about this. Okay, great. I'm all about talking in relationships. What do you think he, in most cases in my situation, what do you think he's going say? Oh, he's going to say whatever, I think.

Michele Williams: So, then what do you think?

Andrea Liebross: Right? So then, what do you think? Are you, you know, where are you on this? And I'm just sort of curious, why are you asking them? Why are you even asking him? And they might say, well, we always talk about big decisions, blah, blah, blah. I said, yeah, but his role in this is to support you as a husband. He is not the business owner. You are the business owner. You have to commit to the decision. He's not committing to engaging in coaching. You are. So, we want other people to be in on our commitments sometimes because we think it's going to feel better if we have all the people in on the commitment, but it's okay if they're just interested in what you're doing and only you are committed. I think that's a valuable thing for people to realize.

Michele Williams: I think it is. And as we wrap up our conversation, I think it's giving ourselves permission, Andrea, to hear our own voice.

Andrea Liebross: Yes. Oh, I talk about permission all the time.

Michele Williams: What you just described is not hearing their own voice, but needing the affirmation and the support of somebody else's voice, right?

Andrea Liebross: Yes, yes, yes.

Michele Williams: And listen, I'm like you. I have a podcast. I coach, I work with people. There is certainly a time to rally the troops and get support and have insight from others, but every business owner needs to be able to hear their own thoughts and hear their own heart. Like, that's an important skill. One of the best things we can do is to know ourselves because then we can move from a place of knowing ourselves. And so just giving us back the gift to think that way is amazing.

Andrea Liebross: I love it.

Michele Williams: So, She Thinks Big.

Andrea Liebross: She Thinks Big is available on Amazon or your favorite bookseller.

Michele Williams: Awesome.

Andrea Liebross: And also, I wanted to point out that there's a toolkit that goes with the book that you can access for free, and there's also a workbook. So those are two sources of tools that kind of help do what Michele was describing or you were describing at the beginning of processing all of this? Because it is a lot. And I think I've learned that with all the business or nonfiction books I read, you know, am I going to be a passive participant or am I going to be an active participant in this process? And we can read all the books and listen to all the podcasts, and I like podcasts, too, because I have my own, you know, we got it all. But if you actively engage in some of this material, you're going to see amazing things happen.

Michele Williams: No doubt. No doubt. Well, Andrea, thank you so much for sharing. It was so fun to meet you and then to be able to do two back-to-back podcasts to get to know each other and about our businesses. And I just, I thank you for the book. It was a really amazing gift.

Andrea Liebross: You're welcome.

Michele Williams: It was a gift bigger than the book is what I would tell you, a gift that was much bigger than that.

Andrea Liebross: If your listeners are reading or doing it or whatever, go to Andreas with an s, links with an s.com and message me and tell me what you think. Andreaslinks.com has lots of other great tools and resources for you, too, and a way to get back to me. Or you can just direct message me on Instagram. That's fine, too.

Michele Williams: Awesome.

Andrea Liebross: Thank you.

Michele Williams: We'll put all of your channels in the show notes. And again, thank you so much for today.

Andrea Liebross: Thank you. Andrea, thank you so much.

Michele Williams: Andrea, thank you so much for such, just a great conversation. I really enjoyed the book and I hope those that are listening will jump in and go buy it and see what it does in their business. I think. I think you'll be surprised. We're all making shifts.

We have some big shifts coming here at Scarlet Thread and at Metrique Solutions. It's true. We're growing. We're doing the same things everybody else is doing. I want to encourage you to make sure that you sign up for our email so that you know what's coming and you are the first to get on the list. We have some opportunities for the CFO2Go. We have some opportunities for our strategic workshop that we're going to be opening up this year to others. Just a lot of really cool ways that you can engage with us and us with you to journey at least even just a few steps in your business to support you. So, make sure that you go to scarletthreadconsulting.com and get signed up for our monthly email newsletter where we're sending you coaching information, or download one of the free documents that we have out there. Any of those will get you into our realm. Our goal at Scarlet Thread Consulting and Metrique Solutions is simply to empower you to know your financials in a way that you need to, to support your dreams, your desires, and your goals, and then to be able to use those numbers to make decisions.

Knowledge is power, and knowledge makes you profitable. And as we can all probably say together by now, profit doesn't happen by accident. Profit is a Choice is proud to be part of the designnetwork.org, where you can discover more design media reaching creative listeners. Thanks for listening and stay creative and business minded.