282: Design Mentorship for Beginners    

Michele Williams: Hello, my name is Michele, and you're listening to Profit is a Choice. Welcome to today's episode. I’m thrilled to have Rebecca Ward with me. Rebecca is an award-winning interior designer based out of Sacramento, California, and she’s truly dedicated to nurturing emerging talent in the design industry. Not only does she host the Design Curious podcast, but she also runs a mentorship program called My Design Mentor. Rebecca focuses on answering those essential early questions for anyone looking to build their business in interior design. In this episode, we’ll discuss the many paths people take into the industry and the common questions new designers face as they start their careers. Tune in for valuable insights on how to kickstart your journey and make smarter business decisions in interior design. I hope you enjoy our conversation! 

Every day, empowered entrepreneurs are taking ownership of their company, financial health and enjoying the rewards of reduced stress and more creativity. With my background as a financial software developer, owner of multiple businesses in the interior design industry, educator, and speaker, I coach women in the interior design industry to increase their profits, regain ownership of their bottom line, and to have fun again in their business. Welcome to Profit as a Choice. Hi Rebecca, welcome to the podcast.

Rebecca: Hi Michele. It’s wonderful to be here. Thank you for having me.

Michele: Oh, it's our pleasure. I'm so glad you're here. We are going to talk about all things getting a business started and maybe shifting and changing careers and pivoting. I would love to hear a little bit of your story before we begin. I think you and I have some different parallels that will be fun to discuss. But tell everybody a little bit about you and your journey to design.

Rebecca: Yeah, well, like most designers, I was creative as a young person. I rearranged my room all the time in the middle of the night so my parents wouldn't tell me I couldn't do it, and so that was the early days. I was fortunate enough that my parents let me make some design decisions within their home because I was quite opinionated on what looked right and what didn't. So, I knew from a young age that I wanted to go into architecture. I didn't know that interior design was an option for a college major at that time. It wasn't until I was later in high school looking into it. But I took a very traditional path. I went out of high school into a four-year degree at Sacramento State University for interior design. While I was there, I interned for a local designer who does high-end residential, and restaurants and I worked for him part-time for a couple of years. Once I graduated, I worked for a model home designer for about three years, which was a really good experience. I think that because we're turning over so many houses in one year for the builders that all had to look different from each other, it was a great study in a short amount of time of all the different styles and all the things that you need to do because we'd do it from the ground up as well. So, we were on site for construction and things like that. So, when the recession hit in 2007, model homes started to not being a thing that was needed. And so, I got laid off. I went to work for an architect for a year doing drafting for them, and then they laid me off. And so finally I was like, well, I think now's the time to start my business because I know I can't lay myself off work. So, when I got laid off the first time, I decided to get my business license, because I knew that was the direction I was going to ahead. Even though I was working full-time for another person, I was like, well, let's get started. I had a friend reach out and say that she wanted help with her house. She heard that I was starting to go out on my own. So, I started baby steps into my own business. And then when the recession was in full swing, I went completely on my own. My saving grace, I would say, was my drafting skills because I got a job as an independent contractor for an architectural designer, drafting for him his kitchen and bath, which was not something I had as much experience with up to this point. And so, I got a really good study in kitchen and bath design. So, I do his floor plans and elevation. Sometimes I would meet with his clients. In the meantime, I was growing my own company, but very slowly, with very little, I'd say, aspirations of how to make it profitable. I just wanted to have projects, so I was not charging very much. I was not looking to see what my profit margins were or anything like that. So, several years into it, I finally got a business coach who helped me start to analyze those things, start to charge more for my time, and really open up my opportunity for hiring somebody and kind of scaling the business a little bit. So here we are, like 17 years later, and still going strong. And, yeah, so that's kind of my path into interior design.

Michele: You know what's interesting is I think that rarely does anybody come out of college with any degree and just go start a business doing exactly what they have learned. I mean, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it's not what most of us do. I know I've spoken to a couple of different college interior design programs. And I would ask them, who in here is going to walk right out and start your own business? Not one hand went up. Every one of them was more of I want to go work somewhere and get some experience. And honestly, within a lot of the classrooms, a good portion of them were going commercial as opposed to residential, which I always found fascinating since I work primarily on the residential side. I mean, I certainly, my clients certainly do a little bit of both, but I'm not coaching directly in that full suite of commercial-only design. I just thought that was kind of interesting. And then what they usually say is, I know what I learned in school, but the application of it is different. So, first, there's this thought of how do I even apply what I learned in school. Because we're learning sometimes, in the most vanilla of ways, if you will. And then there are all other flavors once you get out into the world to design, it's not just as formulaic as maybe we learn all the formulas. I usually say you can tell somebody who has an eye versus somebody who has the education because you can have the eye, and like you said when you were younger, you just knew there was something about it such as the scale and the proportion and the balance and the rhythm that are all done in a certain way. And later you understand the golden proportions of doing it all. You know what I mean? You understand the math, and you understand the reasoning behind why what you see makes sense and why it doesn't. And so, I love that you had that experience because most people do, they come out and they need to kind of do some on the job training. They need to do some real-life application of the skill set that they've learned. Then what happens is its E-Myth Revisited. I keep saying that every time, but it's, oh my gosh, I make great cakes, or I bake great pies. I think I’ll go open a bakery. And then it is a whole different thing than baking the pie. I know I have coached quite a few people who were just starting out their own business. Not new to design necessarily, but new to the running of their own firm within the first couple of years. And the challenge that I even see for some of them, Rebecca, is that they know how to design either from school or from working with other people, but the minute they shift into doing it on their own, they might not have known how to run the business. And that is a completely different thing behind it. But it does, it takes all the different experiences, I love how your story, you had experience in model homes, which is a selection process, a very quick selection process, as well as, trying to keep everything different so that we're not formulaic. Formulaic in one regard. And that these are all the things that we need to do, but not cookie cutter, I would say, and that everything has to look the same. I remember when we bought our house like 25, 30 years ago, they would be like, you can choose A or B. And it was like the gray plan or the beige plan. Like there was no individuality. It was like, you can go down the gray path or you can go down the tan path. Which one is it going to be, and so now we've come a long way from that. But then know all of that with the kitchen and bath and just really set you up to understand all of it when you decide to go out on your own. What would you say was the biggest challenge when you went out on your own?

Rebecca: I would say it was definitely understanding how to charge my clients. I mean, I didn't know anything about bookkeeping, so my first hire was a part-time bookkeeper because I didn't even know how to set up my books, you know, for taxes. I wanted to make sure I got that right. So that was overwhelming, for sure. But, you know, bringing an expert alongside you was helpful. But I felt like, especially at this time, and I know this many years later, it's a lot more information is available to people through podcasts and coaching and things like that. But at that time in 2007, designers were still really closed off about how they ran their businesses, whether they were profitable or not, and how much they were charging. So, I had a guess at a lot of it based on who I had previously worked for and how much I had seen of how they ran their business. I just gleaned from that. I had my business practice books from college for the one class that I took. So, I scoured that book because, I don't know, I guess it's aging me now, but we didn't have as many resources on the Internet for things like that. So, I just pieced it together as much as I could at that time of what was available. I didn’t even think about hiring a coach. That wasn’t something.

Michele: It wasn’t a thing back then. I mean, I started my coaching in 2013, and I was one of the first that were out there for this industry. I mean, there might have been one, maybe two at the time, and I had already been mentoring and educating since 2009, and I even remember I’ll age myself even further back than you. I remember when I started my company in 2000, going to Barnes and Noble and getting coffee, they actually had a Starbucks inside our Barnes and Noble, and I would go get a coffee and get the books and go sit down and read the books to try to understand or to see or to figure something out that I didn’t know. I mean I was scouring those things because people weren’t open. I remember the comment I always made was I always thought people were rude. Later I realized it was because they didn't know. They weren't being rude; they just didn't have a grasp on it. For the questions that I was asking, how much can I make in this? What can my business do? How much can I bring in? What is the sailing on this? And those were the answers that I wasn't getting because nobody could tell me. And so, then I was reverse engineering the math to try to figure out what it might take with capacity and, you know, all those things just. But not until you're living it. And so, I fully understand that getting out the book from college, at least you kept that book. I mean most people would have thrown that one away. That was pretty cool.

Rebecca: Yeah. So that was very helpful, I think, in that had like ASID’s copy of their contract as well, which has so much legalese in it that was like hard to even understand and you know, know what to do. Like, I knew I needed a contract, I knew it should probably charge for the initial consultation, but I think I needed like $50 or something.

Michele: Those hard lessons though, Rebecca, sometimes are the best lessons because you go, oh, that's stung, or oh, that didn't feel fair on one side or even. Right. It's the lessons that are getting our attention. They're just sometimes painful along the way.

Rebecca: Yeah. And I was definitely coming from a mindset of probably scarcity, but as well that I love doing this for a living. Like I don't feel like I can charge people a lot because I enjoy it so much.

Michele: Well, because isn't one of the coaching questions that gets asked sometimes what do you love so much you would almost do it for free? And I think for many of us in this industry, whether we're doing custom window treatments, upholstery design, or something in this creative realm, it is that we have a natural inclination towards it, we have a natural ability or gifting to see and to work in that area. And therefore, it feels so general as if everybody would have it that why would I charge for that? Everybody has it until we really come to understand not everybody has the same gift and the same ability or the same inclination. And so, we shouldn't charge less for that just because it's easier for us. It actually means business is hard enough when we're doing something that comes naturally that we love. Like, we don't need to make it harder by not charging for it, right?

Rebecca: 100%. Yeah. So. So that was a hurdle to come to overcome with that mindset of being like, I actually need to make a living. I was fortunate enough to be married at the time, so I probably fell into the trap of like, oh, we've got this other income, so mine's not as the thing that we rely on so much. But really that was not benefiting me or anyone to have that mindset. So, with coaching and over the years, I definitely got over that, which led me to a couple of years ago thinking about like, as I love to meet people for coffee who are interested in being a designer, and they have all the same questions that I had starting out. Even though there's so much information out there, they still need to talk to somebody about their career. whether they went.

Michele: Whether they went to college for it or not. I mean, both sides, right? There are questions that come with the thought process of what would it look like. What would I need to have set up? Could I? Should I? All the things. And some may choose very much. At least I've seen, oh, that sounds doable. Or like where I want to put my energy or, resources and others go, that's what it takes, I don't want to do that. But they're kind of introduced to the wrestle of what it's going to look like to take the next step.

Rebecca: Yeah. So, like many designers, I'm sure that they also get this, but they’ll get emails from students who are like, oh, I need to interview somebody for my class or I'm going to be graduating. I kind of want to know what the career is all about. or like, I'm going into college, and my parents want me to, like, explore this thing that I'm interested in. And we got so many of those emails that I was like, I can't meet with all these people all the time. I talked to other designers. Like, yeah, I just always ignore those because I just never.

Michele: Yeah, there's so many of them that come in and you're so busy.

Rebecca: Yeah, my heart really goes out to those people because I was there. Like, I wanted that information. There was no one who would talk to me when I was starting out. So, I decided to start a program, called my Design Mentor, which is online, and it's accessible to anyone who needs to ask those questions. There are like 12 modules they can go through. It has all this information, but they can also just meet with me, schedule a time, and just ask me those questions, and I can help them along the way. So, I felt like this was a way that I could meet with many people at once. You know, I can schedule it so, it's not like me going to coffee for an hour or two with someone. It's like we can just meet on Zoom for a half hour here and there, and I can meet with people from all over the country or whoever needs it, because a lot of designers aren't able to do that. And so, I want to be a resource that other designers could even send those inquiries to and be like, oh, you know what, you can talk to Rebecca. She has this program that will give you the information, then you can ask her more questions. So, yeah, I started doing that a couple of years ago, just because I think it's what's needed in our industry to elevate.

Michele: What's nice about that approach, too, is you can, like you said, meet with people anywhere, but it's a time that fits in your schedule. And sometimes getting to coffee, it's not just the hour of coffee, it's the 10 to 20 minutes to get to the coffee or the 30 minutes to get home from the coffee. It's the shifting of the attention and the time and where it is into the day. I mean, there are so many other factors. You’re so right. I think it's not that people want to not give out the information. It's about the ones that are really, really busy and that have full businesses going finding two or three hours to sit down to just chat doesn't feel like a luxury that maybe they have built into the way that they're managing their business. I'm curious about your mentorship. How do you define your mentorship differently from coaching?

Rebecca: Yeah, so I see mentorship as this is something that I'm still actively doing. I'm still learning in my business. I'm still learning the best way to do things, and as I do it, I adjust, and I share that information. Coaches will ask you really tough questions and they really dig in. And I feel like mentorship is a little more, I'm coming along alongside you. Let's take these first steps together. Which is how I It's a very easy approach to the coaching that you might need later on. First of all, it's fairly affordable, but there's not a huge time commitment, there's a lot of self-discoveries. And then the mentorship that I'm giving you is this is what works for me, I think it would work for you, ask me any questions. But I'm not going to dig deep into be like, well, why didn't you do this today? Or what's your real motivation? Or what? You know, like, that's not actually the level that I'm going to get to with you and then. But I start you out on that path because most people coming into the program have never worked with a coach before either, so they don't know what that's about. So, once they've worked with me on this beginning level of mentorship, which is someone who can just come alongside any project that they're working on, if they even started their business, they have a few of their own projects going on and they want feedback. That's where I am. As a professional, I can say, oh, yeah, this is a great choice, because often designers are so siloed when they're working on their own, when they have their own, they don't have anyone to get feedback from and they haven't built their community yet, so I can be that person for them. But they are going to need that next-level coaching, someone can ask them the hard questions about their business and push them into those upper levels. And so, I see my program as the beginning of baby steps. And then you'll go graduate into a bigger coaching program.

Michele: What you have done is so needed. I know so many designers that even if they were coaching with me and they were newer in the business, they might just want another designer to look into their deliverables and the way that they're doing it and maybe the selections that they had, or this is how I'm going to present this to the client, have you found a way that works? Things that are much more specific to the design work itself. If they don't have that if they haven't yet found their person if you will, because a lot of designers, and a lot of people in creative industries, they find that other person that they can kind bounce off of, especially until they can build out their own team. So they're sharing, and a lot of them I've seen share space or they let's get together and I'll review yours and you review mine so that they can have that feedback to even provide that when they're just getting started is so good because most people want to do really well at their job and at their work and they just want somebody to look at it and go, you're on track, you're doing it. I'm going to put in air quotes for those who are listening the right way or what you've done is acceptable or it's beautiful or Oh, that looks great. But the juxtaposition of that one piece is off to me. Or have you checked the scale of this? Just somebody who can provide eyes to maybe save them from the challenges that they may have later. In design, I tell you, it’s one of those things and you could probably attest to this, you can make some mistakes that are extremely costly and mistakes that end up costing you by either having to have a storage unit or resell something mean you can get stuck very quickly with expensive items that don't fit because a measurement was missed or a door opening was missed or something small came into play. So, just having that ability to have a conversation with somebody to kind of help you, I love that so much for the industry. So, let me ask this, Rebecca. Who are the people that come into the mentorship program? I think we’ve kind of dotted around it. But what would make them come in? Is it usually those who are seeking out, like the college student who is saying, do I even want to go here? Do I want to do this? The college student who’s wrapping up, who’s going, all right, what’s out there? What does it look like to get a job? Because those questions are very different than the young designer, I mean young business-wise who’s going out on their own for the first time and wants somebody to look over their shoulder and walk with them down a certain path. Do you handle all of those or a subset of them?

Rebecca: Yeah, it is more often the new designer that is going through the program. While I could definitely, I mean there's information in there for college graduates and it definitely would be a great platform for them. I haven't had as many who come through who are. Because most of the time they'll just go from college to career, like to an entry-level job. They're not necessarily exploring businesses beyond it now. It could be so most of the time that the people who come through and might have just gone through a design program, but it's their second degree or it's their second career choice. Yeah. So, they don't have time to go entry-level into a company. And so, starting a business is going to be what's going to provide them the same amount of income that they were working at whatever career they were at before. So most often it's that I also have some people who have come from other countries and they're learning how to do design in America as opposed to the other country that they've been in. and so that is a really interesting process as well. What’s nice about the modules that I have within the program is that I have a discussion in there about do you want to be an employee versus an entrepreneur and the pros and cons of both. How do you work with trade and what is a niche? Like what are some areas you could specialize in? What’s a money mindset? Because we all have money issues going into it. We're using a lot of other people's money. Our clients typically have more money than we do. How do we deal with that kind of difference?

Michele: Yeah. Oh, my gosh, this is so good. I just think of all the people. Like, I'll give you a prime example. I remember when I worked in software, I would have loved to have been a designer from the very beginning if I had even known that it existed in the small town where I grew up. I don’t even know of anybody that was a designer. Don’t ever remember any piece or part of anything like that. So, I didn’t even know it was a thing. I know that I love to decorate. I know that I love entrepreneurship. If somebody told me they loved it, I would go make it. I mean I was making Madonna shirts and all kinds of stuff back in the day. And we had some glitter going on. We had all the big bows in the hair. We had the 80s thing; we were rocking it. But I had no idea. So, I went into, the other pieces that I love are engineering and math and all of that. So, I went down that path. I was working in software, and I had such a draw. We had bought a house and I wanted to understand design principles and I love putting things together. Long story short, there was a local college, that was probably maybe 2 miles from where I worked in downtown Atlanta, and they had a night program like a beginning design program that you could go through that did some color theory and how you put things, a small print and a large print and medium print and stripes and how you organize and pull things together. And I loved going to those classes and making all the boards and doing all the things. It fed a piece of my soul. And so, I went and started doing research. What would it mean for me to go back to college, to get the degree and to go get a job? Well, at the time I was already making six figures in my 20s, back in the 80s and early 90s. So, I already was really well paid back then. And I was looking at getting rid of that, going back to a school to have all of that debt all over again, to come in at 18 to 20 thousand dollars back then. And I was like, that makes sense to nobody anywhere. I don't care what that drive is within me, I'm not willing to pay that price at this point. I had a young son, and I was like it does not make sense to me. And so, to have had something like what you have that says I understand you can’t go back and take on $100,000 dollars in debt and then make $18,000 a year, I understand you can’t do that. What could you do? What is available, and what are the opportunities? Was another way that you could approach the work. It was so helpful. I would have been the poster child who would have not been able to do it the traditional way.

Rebecca: Yeah, because even like I get on my soapbox on my podcast sometimes about how our industry is underpaid overall. It's just we underpay ourselves as business owners, but also, we are not able to pay our entry-level designers, our mid-range designers, what they really should be making. Like people get discouraged when I tell them that an entry-level design position is $22 to $26 an hour. If they're coming from another career where they're making 40 or something like that, then they're not inclined to go work for someone else because their skills are at an entry-level. So that's when we look at well, what other skills do you have? Have you been project managing in this other industry? It is definitely transferable to be a project manager on a design firm side. So, we look at ways to use the skills that you have to elevate your pay scale. But, yeah, I get on a little soapbox sometimes about how we all need to be making more as an industry because it's really hard to be that low starting Out.

Michele: You're right. And I'm seeing a lot of entry-level anywhere is around $50,000, and it can be much higher in some places. I've seen some junior designers in the 60-something thousand dollar range. But it is because of the cost of living and where they’re located. So when we're still back in the 20 and 30,000 to get people to come on and then we wonder why sometimes people aren't as dedicated to the work or why we're not getting top-notch just because we're not paying for top-notch. Which then means we need to understand the pricing and the profitability. Like hello, I'll raise my flag and climb up on my box. But if we don't understand those things, it's a communication because we are having to make our money. One of my big pet peeves is when people talk about I can't charge that an hour because I'm not worth it. Then the hourly rates we charge have nothing to do with our personal worth. Zero, not even connected. It has to do with what can the company provide and do and what does it need in that time. We can start to do some of that money mindset and separate the things that are holding us back, then we can charge for the expertise and for the deliverables that we bring, and the value that we provide. Which is a very different conversation than What am I worth in an hour? Being able to pair our people starts with being able to charge correctly for the work we're doing and working with the right people, there's a trickle-down effect. It's hard to make it up at the bottom if we haven't done it well at the top. But I am, encouraged by, in the program that you have, Rebecca, as for so many, whether they're coming in as a second career or they're coming in as a continuation of a career where they've worked for other people and now they're going into work for themselves. Because even then there's a confidence that they might have the confidence to be able to do the design work, but the confidence of what the building of the business looks like, that same thing that you talked about. I work with a lot that is starting to come in there. They know how to design, they have done kitchens, they've done baths, they've done whatever it is, the whole family room. They've done builds, they do rentals, they’ve done the physical work, they can build the pie, they know how to make the pie, running the bakery, running the design firm, running the workroom, whatever it is, the business unit, that’s what they don’t always know. And so just having somewhere that gets those, like you said, those seeds planted, even the seeds of, what are the next questions that you can ask and where do you go from here? Shows them that there is something else and somewhere else to move. So, I love that you are providing a resource that allows for business to be done better. I’m aging. We all are. Right. But it’s been really interesting to me how I’m, going to say over the last year in particular, I feel like I’ll just be really frank in my prayer time, I very much feel like God is placing on my heart to look back at the women that are walking behind me and to, instead of being so worried about where I'm moving forward to make sure that I am turning back and that I am building up, the women that are walking behind me with the knowledge that I have. Not that I don't already do that somewhat in coaching, but I have felt even more of this push to really love and support the women who are behind me. Because here's the deal, and I think this is what you are showing as well. We're all going to hit bumps, we're all going to have mistakes, we're all going to have challenges, we're all going to fail if you want to use that word, and then get back up. But if I can provide support, love, care, and information that keeps people from falling into the same place as I fell in, at least they have the information, and then they can do what they want to do with it. Right? But I'm not withholding something that could help somebody not run into issues. And I think when you really love people, it's easier to be willing to want to help and to give that than to say, well, I fail, so it's normal you fall. And there are some like that who are kind of like, well, it happened to me, so it's going to happen to you. And they, they just let it go. I have felt very tendered in my heart as I am not looking to retire tomorrow, but it's on my horizon and it's in my future. It’s closer to my future than building a whole business from the ground up since 2000. so just really looking at how to do that well, how to love people where, how to care about other people that are starting. Because if we are all professional when we start, it elevates the industry as a whole. And so, I love that that what you are offering in your program is that think about these things. This is what it looks like. Here are the questions that I asked. Here are the questions you may have. Here's how you could start it off well, you're going to run into things, but let me just show you what I've done here. Let me give you what I have so that you have a step up into the next place that you want to go.

Rebecca: Yeah, 100%. I mean, I get so excited when I'm talking to someone who's starting their business because I just want them to succeed.

Michele: And they're in that excited piece, so it's easy to be excited with them.

Rebecca: Exactly. And so, yeah, I just love giving in that way to people. Like you say, like, the more we do this type of thing where we come alongside people and say, you don't have to fall into that ditch that I did, here’s the information to avoid it. As long as they take it and do the work, then they can't avoid it. And then the farther ahead they get and they can help people in their path later on. It's a pay-it-forward type of situation. I just really am excited about the mentorship program. So, that's also why I started the podcast “Design Curious”, in which we cover a lot of the same types of topics.

Michele: I love the name of that podcast “Design Curious”. Like, are you curious about it? It's almost like saying, and it's probably exactly what you meant, which is why I'm reading it that way, it's almost like opening up your family room and saying, hey, we're going to talk about this topic today. Grab a cup of coffee or whatever and come in and sit down, let's chat.

Rebecca: That’s exactly what I say.

Michele:  Exactly. I'm picking up what you're putting down! But it just feels so relatable that way, and I would say that in general, people have this idea, and I don't know how we've done it, but we have given out the idea that design is all glamorous and beautiful. I kind of think of “Father of the Bride”, where they had the designer and he just kind of flitted through the house and did all the fun stuff and just kind of made it happen. Yeah, just all glamorous and stuff. There are glamorous pieces and parts to what we do you can seek it out if you want it, but you can choose to avoid it if you don't. There's some of it that’s there. It is certainly an industry where we are surrounded if we allow ourselves by beautiful things. But it is an industry of deep detail. Roll up your sleeves. A lot of work, a lot of project management, and just a lot of logistics. There is so much negotiation, a lot of budgeting, and financial work. There is a lot of, a lot of other stuff in this industry. It’s not, honestly, I mean it’s not overly simplistic but it’s not as easy as making a pie and selling a pie. You know what I mean? There is a lot that goes on and some of these are very long-range projects. So, just even being curious enough to how much of the beauty is part of what we do and how much of it is rolling up your sleeves. I would submit that many if they had known when they started their business that it was 15 to 20% pretty design and 80 to 85% roll up your sleeves and do all the work in the background and all the numbers and all the paperwork and all the tracking and all the calendaring and all the stuff, a lot of them would have probably not done it. They would have done something else. Then some still haven't wrapped their mind around the fact that it's not all pretty and so the back end is kind of let go. So just even peeling the curtains back on to be successful and to really do it as more than a hobby or yeah, I’ll help you come decorate your home, and we do all just the fun stuff to really do the business piece of it is so much more. To even give them a true idea of what they're walking into I just think is super valuable.

Rebecca: Yeah, that's exactly what the point of the podcast is. I want to show you that you need grit in order to be a designer, especially in residential, you’re dealing with people's emotions, and they run high sometimes. They’re investing in their home and because they have this money tied to it, it's very emotional for them. And so, you're having to deal with tough situations sometimes or you make a mistake, and you have to throw a lot of money at it. You need to have that in reserve. There are a lot of hard things and I want to make sure people are aware of going in with their eyes wide open before they get into the career, but I also talk about the great parts of it, but I just want them to have a realistic view. I also love to interview other designers because everyone has a different path to interior design. What's really interesting about our industry is that there is really no threshold. So, you don't have to have an education in most states. You don't have to be certified, and some people just fall into the career easily. Some people have gone the traditional route, like me. And so, I'd love to hear from other designers how they've gotten into it. So, I'll interview with them on the podcast as well.

Michele: That's awesome. So, Rebecca, if anybody's listening to this podcast and they're thinking, you know what, I could use a design mentor. Or I could use somebody to ask questions to or even, even, hey, not me, but I have got a friend that is bugging me because she won't leave me alone asking me all these questions, and she's my direct competitor sitting beside me, I don't want to be the one to tell her all that. I wish her well, but I don't want to do it. They can send them to you. Where do they go if they're looking for that kind of help?

Rebecca: Yeah, so they can go to my website rwarddesign.com/my-design-mentor. The program is called My Design Mentor, so you can find that there. But they can also find all the links through my podcast. So, if you go to Design Curious on any platform that you listen to podcasts, they'll have all the links to the program there. I also will have downloads for you on the website that you can have. Like, it shows you what the career path is, and the steps that you need to take to become an interior designer. If you're curious about that, there's a quiz about what type of interior design you should be doing based on what your interests are. So, there's a lot of fun things for them there. But yeah, if you go to rwarddesign.com then they'll find all that information.

Michele: That's amazing. And where are you hanging out in socials?

Rebecca: Almost always on Instagram is my spot. So. Ah, it's at RWardDesign there as well.

Michele: Awesome.

Rebecca: I post to the podcast onto that account as well. So, everything's in one spot, easy to find.

Michele: Perfect. We'll have all that in the show notes as well. Well, Rebecca, thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you for what you're doing in the industry as well. that looking back and supporting other businesses. I really am excited for the opportunity that those people have that we didn't have right and that we're not now withholding it from them. So really, really great work in that area. And thank you for doing that.

Rebecca: Well, thank you, Michele. It's great to be on today.

Michele: Have a great day.

Rebecca: You, too.

Michele: Thanks, Rebecca, so much for the conversation. If you're listening and you're just starting out, check out her podcast and her mentorship program. And if you have friends that are driving you crazy asking you questions about wanting to start a business, send them her way. But maybe you're listening, and you remember where you started and you're wondering what your next steps are and realizing that you need help to reach your goals. I would love for you to reach out for a discovery call and let us talk to you over here at Scarlett Thread Consulting. We offer business coaching, strategic planning, and a CFO2GO to really help you understand your numbers. You can find more there at scarletthreadconsulting.com. You can also begin with Metrique Solutions so that you can have easy access to financial modeling and see a visual of where your financials are each month so that you can make the decisions that matter most to you. Whatever it is and whatever your next choice in your business, make sure that you do it with intention because profit doesn’t happen by accident.

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