191: Seeing What is Possible in Your Design Business
Michele 00:00
Hello, my name is Michele, and you're listening to Profit is a Choice. Joining me today is Katie Menon of Stevenson House in Edmonton, Canada. Katie has had really impressive growth and has been willing to take some risks to do things and to step outside of her comfort zone, perhaps before others might and before what some would say was the right time. Listen, and as she shares her business trajectory. Every day, empowered entrepreneurs are taking ownership of their company financial health, and enjoying the rewards of reduced stress and more creativity. With my background, as a financial software developer, owner of multiple businesses, and the interior design, industry, educator, and speaker, I coach women in the interior design industry to increase their profits, regain ownership of their bottom line, and to have fun again in their business. Welcome to Profit is a Choice. Hey, Katie, welcome to the podcast.
Katie Menon 01:10
Hi, Michele, thanks so much for having me today.
Michele 01:12
I am excited to talk to you.
Katie Menon 01:15
Great me too.
Michele 01:16
Are you?
Katie Menon 01:16
Well, yeah, I mean, we've known each other for quite a few years now. Right. So I know, a great time to, to catch up officially.
Michele 01:25
Yeah, and to celebrate some wonderful successes that you had. So you and I, you're right, we have run into each other over multiple years, Luann live, different design events. And we're currently working together and have a coaching relationship. You have really had some pretty big shifts and changes over this last year. And we're going to jump in and kind of celebrate that. But also share a little bit of the journey. And you probably as much as anybody else know that the last couple of years have been a couple steps forward and maybe a step back. And the step backs, not always like a backward step, if you will, as much as take a deep breath decision making step. And so I'd love to explore some of that with you. But before we jump into all that, Katie, could you just share a little bit of your background and how you've been trained where you started? And what brought you to design?
Katie Menon 02:23
Yeah, I'd love to. And you're right just to touch on the decision making. It does feel like the last few years, I've been, you know, making a lot of decisions. So I can't wait to unpack some of those. Yeah, so I launched Stevenson house formerly Stevenson Interiors, officially in 2017. But the journey started much, much before that, you know, my husband and I bought a house in 2011, I had come from an undergrad degree in political science. After I finished that I thought, well, maybe I should go into medicine, like completely unrelated. And started working at the hospital, in the surgical suite with adults, worked there for a few years. You know, it afforded me a lot of flexibility. With my schedule, I was able to do some traveling and you know, things like that it was great, but I never really felt like I had a career or that I was really fulfilled workwise so when we purchased our house, you know, we hired a designer, the experience was very fun, of course. And it allowed me to explore this creative side. And I couldn't believe how passionate I was about these decisions and fabrics and textiles, furniture forms this kind of thing. So I could only take a local program for interior design because I was you know, married with my husband who had a career in Edmonton. And there's just no, there's, of course, a university here, but there's no interior design degree. So I did what I could and took some continuing education courses. That was over the course of like two and a half years, it was really structured to be a part time program. And I completed that program just before I had my first daughter. So then I completed the program, you know, and then had Chloe and then 21 months later had Poppy. In between having Chloe and Poppy. I decided that I loved interior design, but that that continuing ed program just wasn't quite enough for me. So in you know, I would say my typical fashion, I just really hunted down something that was going to allow me to fully develop this career. And that was an online program from the New York School of interior design before the whole world shifted to online, you know, so that was a really exciting opportunity. So as I completed two years full time at NYSID I was I was building the business sort of behind the scenes, and then things really automatically changed when I graduated from that program in May 2014.
Michele 05:05
Wow, that's actually pretty, uh, still feels very close, doesn't it?
Katie Menon 05:09
Yeah, it's so strange, it feels so fast and full and comprehensive and in a short amount of time, but I think over the last few years, when I started really looking back and defining the company mission and values, I could see the, I could see the love affair for design from a very early age. And so I'm very, very grateful that although it was a bit of a longer path to get here, you know, I was in my 30s, when I started the business and started doing design, it feels really good.
Michele 05:42
Now, you know, what's also interesting is, I think, because you were in your 30s, and you had tried some other pathways and done some other things, I bet you there were some skill sets that you had gathered, through those experiences, that that gave you the confidence to come right out of either continuing ed or the two year program, and immediately start your business at the level that you've started it because, you know, there's so many people that are starting, that didn't have that, or, you know, it's a harder path. You started at a really, I mean, a good and a bad time, all at the same time, right there at 2019, 2020. But I think I think sometimes I guess what I'm saying is the maturity that you had, and the past experience put you in a position to think about this truly, I want a business and a career, not just there's a hobby that I'm going to not that there's anything wrong with having this hobby, you just came to it very clear that you wanted it to be a business.
Katie Menon 06:44
Yeah. And I mean, that's a great point is because I think a lot of times people, you know, I think it's more common nowadays that people are doing career coming to career paths multiple times, right. And starting a business later in life or not following you know, your family footsteps and inheriting a family business like these are this is more common now. And I think is an opportunity for everybody to you know, draw on past experiences, you might have to look a little deeper, a little harder. But my, my degree in political science, you know, very writing intensive, right, we wrote a lot of papers, looking at critical, looking at the world and governments and regimes and all of this very critically, so really able to articulate my thoughts and opinions. And that has been key with interior design. I remember hearing Alexa Hampton speak at a New York School of interior design event. And somebody asked, What do you look for when you're hiring an interior designer, and she said, I want somebody who can articulate in a, you know, expert clear way, what it is they like about a room, because if you just use words to define things like, Oh, this is so beautiful, this is pretty this is luxury. You know, all of you can't be telling us those words, so many times. So
Michele 08:04
We actually start typing those words out, because they seem so repetitive. Like, I wouldn't expect you to come in and tell me that it was anything other than that, if you got it, right. Yeah. So they almost lose their meaning that they don't pack that powerful punch.
Katie Menon 08:20
Yeah, so being able to articulate, you know, ideas, and we're always selling ourselves and our ideas. So that was, that was great. And then working in Seattle to our, you know, in a very, very high paced, critical environment, my role was very logistical, and putting all the places pieces in place to facilitate these surgeries often in, in emergency situations. I always said, when we worked there, you know, it's not like I was working in the Chocolate Factory, like, we really had to be on the ball and multitask. And it gave me great insight into the personalities and how people in that environment worked. And those people are now my clients. So I feel like I gained a lot of perspective, beyond the insight there that I wasn't able to use in my business now and tailor my processes to sort of their, you know, their train of thought their busy schedules, how they want to interact with people. Yeah, that kind of thing.
Michele 09:22
You know, what's also interesting is the idea of triage, which is what happens in the ER, you're looking at here, all these things happening at one time, what's most important now? What's the next right thing to do? How do you keep calm when everything around you is going out ahead? I mean, there's so many lessons from that, that you can learn because when you walk into a job site or a construction site where things are happening, and lots is going on, and you've got to immediately take all that information and parse it out and kind of form a plan of action or calm down somebody on the other side. I'd or be that chill presence that just gets things done that methodically creates a way, you know, logistically separates out what has to happen. There's a lot of that skill set, in addition to the communication skill set that you learned from, you know, the political science. So I can see a lot of just really great learning. See, I think that's also interesting, Katie, so many people think that we learn in a silo, and we don't, that's what makes everybody so individual, as you're bringing all of that history into the work that you do, and what you do and how you do and the processes that you create, your processes are created, because you have worked on other processes, even if they were different. So it's really neat to see and to hear, I don't think I ever knew that you worked in the surgical area?
Katie Menon 10:53
Yeah, yeah, for a long time. 10 years. So Wow. Yeah, yeah, I think coming onto the scene, or tuning in at a time when there were people filling a gap in the industry, for the business side of running an interior design business. So I don't know how I got into it. I don't know how I got connected with all of you great, great advisors and coaches and business owners. But I did and that was another opportunity where I was really able to, on my own accord just invest as much time and energy as I could to developing the business side of things.
Michele 11:39
Now, when you got your degree, did you know and I know you'd been kind of building on the side? Maybe it's even before that, when did you here's a better way for me to ask it. When did you know Katie, that you wanted to go into business for yourself versus going to work for another designer? And kind of working out that process?
Katie Menon 11:58
Yeah, that's a great question. I think there's two answers to that. One is that I was a mother to two small children. And the idea that I, you know, wouldn't be able to craft our office hours around when I dropped them off or pick them up. And those other you know, family obligations or experiences that I wanted to be a part of that was sort of a key influence. And then Edmonton is kind of a unique place. And it's the uniqueness has influenced a lot of the decision making in my business. But starting with creating something of my own, I just didn't feel like anybody was doing what I wanted to be doing in Edmonton, it was an opportunity for me to bring something to the city that nobody else nobody else was doing.
Michele 12:49
So when you decided to go out on your own, what was your initial idea of what you were going to build and create?
Katie Menon 12:57
That's a great question. I mean, I don't know if I hadn't really, I don't know, if I'd really defined that. You know, I kind of just started with projects of friends and previous colleagues, you know, I started working with some of the surgeons that I had been working with in the ALR, who had spent so much of their lives dedicating themselves to their craft, that then when they finally get out and start working, and earning a salary, some of them who hadn't had spouses or families or anything yet, because again, they've just been traveling for work, and then finally set some routes and purchase a house, they didn't have like the first the first idea of where to start. So I think I was just focused on those individual relationships at first and, you know, the joy and, and satisfaction of being able to help them undertake a task that they had absolutely nothing, you know, no knowledge of so right.
Michele 13:53
And did you start home based? Or did you start with a space outside of your home initially,
Katie Menon 13:59
No home based. So yeah, we were lucky to have a really nice little office with its own bathroom with beautiful, natural light. And because I had been doing my degree from home for two years, I had a really good setup with all my resources there. It's funny, though, because I, you know, I'm sure we'll get there, but I look at where I am today. And not that long ago, I think about when I was working out of that office, and then brought my first employee and who joined me in that home office. And you know how to have a three year old running around in an Elsa costume one minute, maybe no clothes the next minute, but yeah, that home office served me really well for the first year and a bit year and a half, I guess.
Michele 14:38
Okay, so Alright, so you and you started that prior to the year. I'm going to say official graduation. Yeah. Design School. How far into that were you Katie? I mean, and you can either state it by months or whatever frame of reference you want, how far and where You before you thought I need to bring in help. And then what was the first position that you hired for?
Katie Menon 15:06
Yeah, that's great. So March of 2020, obviously, easy reference point, unfortunately, was when like, I guess, January, February, March of 2020, I was really, I was getting busy with some design clients. And I knew the graduation was in the degree program was coming to an end a few months later. So I felt comfortable sort of taking on clients, and being able to space phase that work, and balance the schedules. And then continued to get more and more interest, I guess, throughout the summer, from people that I didn't know, referrals, finding me on Instagram, and that kind of thing. So it was September of 2020, that I brought on my first employee into the house. Very specifically, part time, you know, I distinctly remember the conversation be like, Okay, well, I really need a bit of help. Part time is what we can do for right now.
Michele 16:01
And what role did she come in? To fill?
Katie Menon 16:05
Yeah, you know, and again, as I look back on that, and compare it to where we're at, currently, she was pretty much doing working right alongside me. So okay, we will work in tandem tasks were very similar. Maybe she was doing a little bit more drafting, because I was doing a little bit more business. But in terms of the design, we would work, you know, really closely intertwined on every project, and the separation of roles wasn't as wasn't as clear.
Michele 16:31
Did she have a design degree?
Katie Menon 16:33
She had a two year interior design technologist, so quite draft, okay.
Michele 16:37
Okay. So she did have some of the drawing and maybe the more technical aspect under Okay, all right. Awesome. And then how long did it last, just the two of you. Because we're still not far removed. I mean, we're, this is going to be, you know, coming out in the April May timeframe. But we're recording this in March of 22. And we're talking about within the last two years, and then a year and a half, that was September of 21, within the last year and a half is when you made your first hire. And I say that because I'm going to go ahead and spill the beans. You've got a brick and mortar storefront that has already expanded, like, within before, you could hardly get open, you were expanding, you know, you're you've crossed into the seven figure, Mark. I mean, you're doing like all these crazy things. And we're talking about two years ago, you were still taking courses.
Katie Menon 17:36
Yeah, yeah, I know. I know. It's crazy. So September, I hired Morgan. And then a really great opportunity. Well, I knew I needed to take that next step and, and get a little bit more help as you know, demand and continue to grow. And Morgan and I were I obviously switched Morgan from part time to full time before we took on more help. And that was very, very quick. I think that that was honestly like six to eight weeks, maybe. As soon as we started working together, it was like, Okay, now we're really brought in.
Michele 18:09
Well, and it was perfect timing too, because my gosh, that's when everybody right was sitting at home, we'd been at home for six months, and people were going, I hate my space, fix my space. And so it was just because I remember, you know, it feels weird to look back now that we are I mean, seriously, almost exactly two years out, right. And I remember thinking in that March, April, May timeframe, okay, what's getting ready to happen, because so many things like ground to a halt, so that they could pick back up. And then when it started, it's almost like an avalanche, right of calls and reach outs. And I mean, my program grew because people were like, how do I even handle how I had already started shifting into scaling businesses as I did that in December of 19, January of 20. Not even Of course, having any idea of what was coming, and then just started watching and seeing and witnessing kind of the tide turn. And so while the timing felt probably very like, oh, my gosh, what have I done in that? March? April, May, June timeframe. Man when it twisted, you were you were set up in a perfect situation, Katie?
Katie Menon 19:27
Yeah, it really feels that way. And I remember also listening to podcasts, and hearing people in the industry talking to friends. We had group chats on Instagram. I remember hearing people because everyone kind of stopped their projects in in March right now.
Michele 19:42
They don't know what to do, right. It's kind of like shell shocked. Yeah, absolutely.
Katie Menon 19:45
And rightfully so. And I remember hearing fellow designers mean like, Okay, well, this is great. Like, you know, I'm going to use this opportunity to work on my processes. And I was like, Man, I wish I had some time for that, but I'm still doing you know, the degree pro ran when I was still working with some clients, I didn't really have time to just stop. And that's what was also unique about the program at New York is, you know, we were continuing on our classes. So yeah, that and then being in Edmonton, too. I mean, this is the most northern city, in North America of this size over a million people. It's dark and cold here in the winter. And so I think the concept of going into another winter, as the fall was, you know, approaching was still so much uncertainty around COVID. And people not being able to get away to Hawaii or Mexico or Florida. They were like, Yeah, let's go, this is the perfect opportunity to, you know, I'm not going to stare at that living room wall any longer. So, yeah, it was kind of a I mean, and I think people in the industry say like, we don't want to, we're not grateful for how that all worked out, of course, but the industry has seen remarkable growth and demand. And, and we didn't have to sell it so hard anymore, right? Our value
Michele 21:01
is right. That's right. So okay, so September, you pretty much bring her in to full time, when you hired the next person, what was that role? And how long did we were you still staying in your home office for a while? Or was that the point where you're like, we've got to take another step out,
Katie Menon 21:19
We actually were not in the home office for very long, it became pretty clear to me with my children, you know, running around, that this wasn't going to be fair, to an employee that I wanted to be able to offer her. Since she was coming on full time. I mean, she never would never have said, you know, hey, I'm not I'm not okay with this to move to an office, but I just thought I'm going to be able to offer her more. And the idea to that the clients that we were serving, you know, it would be great to be able to serve them in a in a better environment. And we weren't able to really go out to coffee shops and restaurants. And you know, in a way you think about realtors or designers or people you know, coming and going from houses and coffee shops weren't really able to do that restaurants were completely closed.
Michele 22:09
So you know what's also interesting, Katie is even for you, because I know being a mom, and when I was at home, and my kids were younger, even if I was off to the side working, I was constantly watching. So I didn't get to just kind of disconnect. And my kids had a harder time if I was there sometimes because they wanted to interrupt and they wanted to come in. And so then it almost made me feel bad to have to say you can't really talk to me right now.
Katie Menon 22:37
So I think that's a very hard concept for a small child to understand, right?
Michele 22:41
You're here, but I can't talk to you. I can't come in, we can't play What do you mean? And so in some ways, it actually was probably as much a gift to you and to your own sanity, and to your children as it was to her. I mean, you know, again, I stayed home, no slam against those who do. I think there's multiple ways to do it. But I also know that I worked my best when my kids were at school, and that it was so much harder when they were home. And when I was home until they get older. And we could really create those boundaries. And when they're little like that they just don't understand.
Katie Menon 23:16
And it's no and I also had a glass a glass door. Oh, it was even harder. It was even harder.
Michele 23:23
I could just see in my mind's eye, the little handprints and the little smushed face prints on the door like mom.
Katie Menon 23:32
No, not right now. Yeah. So, yeah, so I had to start with what I could. And that was a, you know, an office space. That was a co working space. But it was a it was a private office in an industrial part of town. It was cute. It was cute. But it wasn't the end goal, that's for sure. But it was a it was a place to go to was a pretty affordable,
Michele 23:56
interim step. Right? It was the interim.
Katie Menon 23:59
And I didn't have to calculate, I didn't have to think about a build out. I didn't have to think about utilities. It was just a flat monthly fee.
Michele 24:06
And so you guys were there. How long?
Katie Menon 24:08
Oh, gosh, okay. And we also moved there. The other thing that precipitated that move is because I was adding to the team and I was bringing on interns, the golden ticket interns. So again, how was I possibly going to accommodate three staff members in my house? Sure. So they were joining the team in May 2021. And we moved in there I think that month, like we started there, May 1 and welcomed them to our new makeshift office using furniture that had been, you know, damaged from client projects and just slapping it all together.
Michele 24:48
I think we I think we started working together not long after that, right?
Katie Menon 24:54
So it wasn't too late a little later that summer. It was around summer.
Michele 24:57
Yeah, well, because you had already certainly moved in at that point. So how was it bringing on a team? Did you? I mean, I know how it is, from our conversations. But how was it? I mean, there's something really exciting about bringing on team members. But there's also something really weighty about bringing on team members. How did you? How did you make that transition? Because we both know as well as anybody listening, it also took you out of some of the day to day like you now not only have to do your work, but you have to manage people and projects and clients and expectations, like there's so much more to manage and to lead.
Katie Menon 25:36
Yeah, I would, I would definitely agree that there's a shifting of the demands and the workload, and then it doesn't necessarily right away, get better. And I knew to hiring students, that I would have to be very specific in the type of, you know, tasks or projects that I was delegating to them, I couldn't overwhelm them and have them start or work on a project start to finish. We, you know, we worked closely, it was an open, it was an open room, no individual offices or separation. And that was that was helpful. And using software, like Asana, I was using that right away, you know, so I could give people clear direction with measurable tasks, and, you know, like a little a little to do list. And I felt like if I had set them up with a to do list, essentially, in the most basic sense, every day, that they would feel like they were accomplishing something that they knew what they do if they needed help, or some direction on those individual things, no problem, but it wasn't like they were sitting there, you know, twiddling thumbs being like, what do I do? Now? What do I do? Now? It was a question that was specific to the task, you know, it was great bringing them on, I was able to increase. You know, our team, I think I think we've talked about this before is I brought them on and got grants.
Michele 26:58
Right? I remember that, though,
Katie Menon 27:01
You know, the government actually pay 50% of their wage, which was a great way to sort of experiment with that expanded capacity before, you know, having someone leave another position and bring them on full time where they had a lot more to lose if it wasn't going to work out. And I couldn't continue that.
Michele 27:20
Well. And you also got a taste of what does it feel like to have a team of this size? What what is the amount of workload that we can handle? And that we need to be able to sustain to keep everybody employed? So it that actually turns out to be a bonus on both sides? Right?
Katie Menon 27:37
Absolutely. Yeah, that was, it was great. I wouldn't I wouldn't have, you know, written that experience any differently. I was really happy with that summer.
Michele 27:44
So tell me, so that was some last summer a few short months ago. So where was it in that process, Katie, that you began thinking and dreaming of? This, this isn't the end of what I'm doing. Like, I'm not just going to sit here for the next five years and us work out of maybe this one big co working space. But I've got dreams for something different. What When did you know that that was part of your dream to open up? A space that has design and you know, some retail element in the front? When? When did that come along?
Katie Menon 28:26
Yeah, I think it was it was during that summer. And it was the experience of having that expanded team. And for the first time kind of seeing with this new with these new resources, what was possible. And that was really exciting. The clients we were working with were just so fabulous, and really letting us do our thing creatively and bringing amazing pieces and create concepts that were very complete and fulfilling. You know, not every client is like that. Sometimes you're doing project work, that you're limited by budgets and styles, but we really had a great summer with fabulous projects. And I thought there was there was just some element and calling for visibility and being able to connect with more people and feeling the appetite, you know, from our clients and other people in the city just through conversations of wanting more. And Edmonton is a very unique place again, where we always like, want to be somewhere else in a sense, you know, like it's fairly it's fairly blue collar here and the winters aren't great. And so people are always thinking oh, and Vancouver and Montreal and Toronto and you know, dreaming of other places. But then when we do get to bring something to the city that is, you know, akin to those exciting opportunities in the other city people really do rally behind that. And so it was just like, You know what, I think if we are the first ones to bring this to the city, I think people are going to support us and this is going to be were we successful?
Michele 30:01
You know, you said something, you used a phrase that I think you and I had also talked about in the pre show. And when we were just talking, and that is, last summer, you were able to see what was possible. And I think that is that's a key. And you and I were also talking, you had listened to Carol Lang's episode. And we'll link that in here and Carol's in the coaching program with us as well. And she was sharing some of her journey, and sharing about, you know, kind of making her plans one year out three years out how far out she felt like she could go, or couldn't go just based on where she is and what she's doing and what's in front of her. And, you know, you and I were just kind of riffing on that back and forth. As a concept of how do you know, I can look out three years, five years. And I know, one of the things that said to you was when I first started my coaching business back in, what 2013, I didn't even know what was possible. So I couldn't have dreamt that I would be where I am doing what I'm doing. And exactly the way I certainly as time went on, got closer to, you know, being able to create a strategic plan that had more detail. But I didn't even it was such a new thing to me, that didn't even know what was possible. But once you catch sight of what's possible, wow, that's where the dreaming really starts to happen. And you start to see kind of all the different ways that they could go. So my guess is that when you realize what was possible last summer, you had the opportunity to solve that challenge, if you will, bringing some of these ideas and items from you know, all around other provinces of Canada into Edmonton. But you chose to do it the way that you chose to do it. What were some of the other? Did you look at other avenues? Did you stress test it? Or was it immediate? Oh, my gosh, that's it open up a place?
Katie Menon 32:09
Well, I mean, I had been going down to high point. You know, before I had the office, before I was even the temporary office, like just, I feel like I went to high point before I, you know, really should have gone to high point, if that makes any sense. You know, I was just excited to go and connect with the people that we had met at Luann live and, you know, people you can do coming from Chicago and Jenny coming from Arizona, and just connecting with everybody. And I think throughout my business, and basically my life, I kind of just did things before, you know, before it was maybe the obvious step. And when you would do that, I mean, something even as like, when I did my high school online, right, like grade seven was the last year I did in a in a school. And then I thought the heck with this. I'm going to wrap this up real quick. I've got other things to do. I did grade eight, nine, and then great, you know, high school in two years. And I was I was out of there. And then in Europe. Yeah. And then just with, you know, the design programs and things, I just, I feel like I kind of always just jumped in a little bit early. And so going to high points seen the world of, you know, working directly with vendors and not relying on, you know, maybe retail sources that a lot of designers typically kind of start out doing. I skipped, I just skipped all that.
Michele 33:38
You used a shortcut. All that Yeah,
Katie Menon 33:39
yeah. And so when I got an idea of, hey, I could really dictate and decide what I bring in to my design projects, and then eventually to our retail store. That was exciting. And you know, that felt really, really good, and would allow me to bring that missing element to the city and to my company. And then the next step was just finding, you know, this location that I'm in, which is just absolutely perfect, I couldn't have dreamed of a better spot to currently being with our design, studio, and store. So just a few little just, that's all it takes, you know, it's just a few little indicators along the way. That feel really good.
Michele 34:24
I love that the idea of I kind of started doing some things before, before they were known before it was all the rage or whatever. But you also made, I think, some really good connections. My guess is some that Luann live and other places that like Jenny and candy and some of these. I mean, these were more established than you were at the time. Absolutely. Relationships there. They were still learning, they're growing, you're watching their success, you're staying connected to them. So if we were to tell anybody you know, here are a couple of things to come Consider it's find those, find your crowd, find the people that you can connect with and stay connected, right? Learn from what you hear and what you see in the resources around you. You used your resources, whether you could travel or whether you couldn't travel. But let's talk about this how, how much does fear drive you or not drive you? Because, you know, are you a risk taker by nature, because you've really stepped out and done some things that other people maybe would shy away from, or not be as confident and taking that step as quickly?
Katie Menon 35:38
Yeah, I mean, fear, definitely, you know, it plays in and I think the more you sort of take on, the more, you have to potentially lose, right? So there's an increased sense of, I guess, just calculation now, maybe in my in my steps. But I have always had that in confidence and belief in myself. And then it was, as soon as I got a little bit of recognition with those clients and the projects that I that I was doing a good job, you know, and that I can do this, okay, great, let's, let's make this a make this a thing. And then another key element in that sort of fear risk taking sphere is I would often turn to my husband, and say to him, you know, okay, this is what I'm thinking, like, I mean, I have business coaches, too, right? So that that was one great element. But my husband is the one who is making sacrifices at home, and you know, picking up kids or I'm not home late at night. So it was it was really important to me to have his opinion, right on a lot of those decisions. And I would say like, what is the answer? And he would say, Listen, like, there is no answer here. This is, uh, this is just your tolerance for what's the worst that could happen if, if this is what I do. And only you can decide that and you have to choose, you have to just choose a path. And it's only from that decision and that path, but then you can, you know, re navigate and adjust as needed. But there is no, there is no answer here. And I think as soon as I,
Michele 37:17
I love that there is no answer. The answer is what are you going to do next?
Katie Menon 37:21
Yeah, as soon as I understood that, and sort of had that filter, you know, to put these decisions and this guy freaking Yeah, yeah. It's like, oh, okay, what am I so worried about? Who's, who's judging me? What's, what's the consequence? On the other side of this? Just, you know, internally financially, I don't know. But all of those things, you know, we could deal with and adjust.
Michele 37:45
So you know, the, the Katie, that I know now is the Katie was also informed about that seventh grader who said, what if I had to go to school and do it this slow and do it this way? Can I create my own path? Where did that Katie come from? Were you raised to find your own way and not follow the conventional model and just go out and do your thing? The Katie that it was 16, 17 goes to your late. Where did that's the Katie, that has been able to create what you've created? What created that? Katie?
Katie Menon 38:22
Yeah, I mean, I guess, you know, again, looking to some of my childhood experiences is, you know, really the only source of possible exploration. Right? So yeah, my parents divorced when I was quite young, and I had a little brother and my mum, you know, worked really hard to support us and allow us to do soccer and tournaments, and all of these things, like she rarely said no, in trying to provide everything that she could for us. So I definitely assumed a bit of a caretaker role pretty early on, and also went out and got a job as soon as I could, and try to, you know, pay for things by myself and help out. And then I did get a chance to travel quite a lot as a child having also dual citizenship with England. And I think being exposed to different ways of life and being able to travel and, yeah, take some adventures. And I in a younger age, really? Just yeah, gave me some confidence. So I traveled a lot of the world alone. And, you know, even in high school, and that kind of thing. lived in England for a year traveled Central America for a year. Yeah.
Michele 39:32
That's pretty amazing. Yeah. It's interesting. When I talk to people who talk about having a love for all these other things, a lot of that was formed in those young years. And it was because they were traveled, or well traveled, they were exposed to things outside of what was in their area. I was just having a conversation with for another podcast. And you know, I made the comment. I didn't travel so much as a child that really 4550 years ago. I'm in My mid 50s, it just it wasn't a thing in our area, people didn't travel, I didn't get on a plane until I was 21 years old, you know, it just had never done that. And didn't even know interior design was a career didn't even know what it was like it just like what. And so I do think a lot comes from what we are exposed to, and how we're exposed to different ideas and right and worlds.
Katie Menon 40:29
And there's a flip side of that, too. It wasn't all, you know, jet setting. You know, we did move around a lot, we were in rental houses, because, you know, my mom was, like I said, raising two children by herself. And I remember moving into these houses and making a bedroom out of an unfinished basement in some situations, and I went full, you know, Austin Powers being in that space. And as I look back at, you know, the different houses that we lived in, I was I was already designing rooms, you know, just to create a more comfortable, safer place that I felt, you know, I could call home, even though I didn't have maybe that quintessential or ideal, you know, family home that we were raised, right? Yes. So,
Michele 41:17
so how do you think all of that has informed the way that you design today?
Katie Menon 41:25
Just really being able to make meaningful changes in people's lives. I mean, I know it sounds cliche, but I can appreciate so much what having a comfortable home did for me as a child and, and being surrounded by beauty as I traveled elsewhere, and the feelings that that evoked and again, in Edmonton, where people are often going away to experience you know, lovely things, why can't Why can't my Edmonton clients have that in their own homes? Yeah, here now, instead of
Michele 42:03
instead of a week, every couple of months, why not every day? So can you tell us what your business and space look like today? And then tell us what's next?
Katie Menon 42:14
Sure. So today, we have November 7, of 2021. We opened, you know, Stevenson house, the brick and mortar location. And I had three full time employees, Morgan, of course, who started it all with me and my house, and then somebody who was helping with retail, and then another full time designer, and our retail space was just feeling a little bit too small. And I thought, gosh, like everybody and people around me, my photographer who had been working with for many years, you know, she'd worked with up some other businesses, she just said, if you're feeling like it's too small already, it's going to feel really small soon, and 12 square feet was a was a good size. And we had done you know, of course, some great space planning and, and whatnot. But there I was only the second commercial tenant in this mixed use commercial residential building. And so there was a space next door, same size, same layout, that very quickly, I had to decide to also take on there was going to, you know, there was an offer from a barber shop. And I thought, well, a I'm not really sure I want to barber shop for a neighbor. And be it would be so great to open this wall at the front of the studio, and piggyback off of what I've already created in this beautiful build out. So I honestly I think it was like, well, December 1, I signed the new lease agreement. So it was three weeks after we had opened the doors here that it was all signed and done for the expansion, which is well underway. I'm not sure if you've been able to hear any drywall saws but opening April 2021 for you know, I think it will be about 1700 square feet of additional retail space. And just hired another full time designer who's graduating this spring to help manage the retail side and doing some interviews for new interns will be joining us this summer.
Michele 44:15
Wow, that is a lot from two years ago still being in school.
Katie Menon 44:21
Yeah, it's a lot and there's this weird sense of holy cow, you know, how did this all happen so fast. And then there's also this feeling that it's just all meant to be and the pieces are falling into place and it feels really good.
Michele 44:36
So do you have any other bigger plans? Or are you kind of like in a place of Let me wrap my arms around all that this can be in its fullness?
Katie Menon 44:46
Yeah, I mean that has that has definitely entered. So there have been a few other opportunities in terms of having the brick and mortar space that I've really had to put some thought into. I considered like ship, flower The fresh flower offering over here to get people in the door. And you know, fresh flowers goes really well with home design. And I fully explored that avenue. And then I, there was a point where I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, let's not do too much too soon here, you know, I think the next year and going into, I don't want to say a COVID, free summer, because who knows. But going into sort of the first season that might feel like this isn't going to be such a roller coaster. And people are really excited to get out. I'm, you know, I am focusing on the next 12 months just to see how this goes before I make any firm decisions and in the other directions. But
Michele 45:44
So has your community been really excited about what you've brought to it and a new place to shop and something new to do? Have you? Have you noticed that?
Katie Menon 45:54
Oh, yes, the support has been, has been great. And I think I think on the heels of COVID. And supporting local businesses, you know, has become even more of a priority for shoppers. So I'm looking forward to the increased visibility and being able to support clients and then and then a big section of the market that I wasn't able to service before. And now everybody will be able to kind of come in and get a little piece of the Stevenson house brand that that we're really excited to, to share.
Michele 46:29
Oh, that sounds so fun. I'm so excited for you. It has been, it's been fun to have kind of that really more detailed vision of what you're doing and how you're growing and what's happening. And to be able to see that and watch some of the different decision making kind of exercises that you've worked through. And I just want to say this, they're also and we didn't get into a lot of them. There are also plenty of things that you don't know, oh, yeah, right. We all there's plenty things all of us don't know. So. But what I love about working with you, Katie is you were like, Okay, I don't know this, I feel strong over here, I feel weak, or over here helped me create some strength in this area, or, you know, let's test this or test that I love that you're always thinking and strategizing. But at the same time slowing down enough to try to understand what you can, and the pull in the right people around you to help with that you've invested not only in your own education and learning, but you've invested in a good team, you've got a good set of employees, and you've invested in vendor relationships, you've invested in relationships with other support people around you, as well as with coaches and consultants and things like that. So, you know, I do think it is important to be just really upfront with the fact that you've invested time, effort, energy and money into building what you're building, you certainly didn't, you didn't go so slow as to build it only with profits and everything that came just from one or two design. No, you know, that's what some people sometimes, oh, I'll just and it's fine, there's there is a slow way to growth that says, I'm going to only build with money with profits that I make from design. But then there's another way that says, I've proven that I can do it, I'm going to have to infuse some cash to be able to build this or take on some strategic debt to be able to move this forward at the size that I need to do it. And I just think you've been really smart at looking and thinking and then also looking at grants and looking at other ways to do things around you. So there's some really detailed work. And then there's a scrappiness going on too. And I like it.
Katie Menon 48:48
Yeah. And I think, you know, there's sort of two key things there. Like, we've been working together for a year, we're going to continue to work together for another year, at least because I feel like the path that I've been on and the things that I've implemented or absorbed in the last year is, is great, but I still have a lot of work to do. And now I have a lot of team members in place. And I'm going to be able to tackle, you know, some different angles, and I'm really looking forward to that. And it's the same kind of thing, you know, that I tell my clients like, yes, design fees are a big investment upfront, but it's far more costly, to not work with us. Like, you know, 40% of our current clients are throwing away newish furniture or ripping out new finishes because it didn't it didn't execute like they thought it would. And now they're in you know really costly situations having to redo it. And it's the same thing like yes, there is an expense to having business coaching and that support along the way or going to, you know, events like Luann live but I can only imagine where I would be if I if I hadn't I had all of that support and those resources along the way. So I think it's one of those things that it's unnecessary investment in order to get the kind of results that I that I wanted.
Michele 50:10
Yeah. Well, you've done a beautiful job at it. And I'm excited to see all the success that you're going to have over the next year. Who knows you might have a flower shop here. We'll see.
Katie Menon 50:23
We'll see. We'll see.
Michele 50:24
Thank you so much, Katie, for joining us today and sharing your journey.
Katie Menon 50:28
Thanks, Michele.
Michele 50:30
It was so fun to catch up with Katie celebrate her success and hear about her journey. Some of the details that she shared were even new to me and I really just love hearing the nuances and talking about business with such smart savvy women like Katie. Katie is a member of my designers inner circle program, where we focus on helping successful women grow and scale their interior design firms. If you want more information on how to grow and scale your business the way Katie has also learned to grow and scale hers. Check out the work with me page on the website at scarletthreadconsulting.com growing with a plan leads to profit and profit doesn't happen by accident. Profit is a Choice is proud to be part of the designnetwork.org where you can discover more design media reaching creative listeners. Thanks for listening, and stay creative and business minded.