190: 5 Website Essentials for Interior Designers
Michele 00:00
Hello, my name is Michele, and you're listening to Profit is a Choice. On the podcast today is Katie O'Brien. Katie is a brand and website designer for the interior design industry. And we're going to talk about the five website essentials that are needed for every website, how to tell if you've outgrown your website, and the most common portfolio mistakes that people make. I hope you enjoyed today's episode.
Michele 00:31
Every day, empowered entrepreneurs are taking ownership of their company financial health, and enjoying the rewards of reduced stress and more creativity. With my background as a financial software developer, owner of multiple businesses in the interior design, industry, educator, and speaker, I coach women in the interior design industry to increase their profits, regain ownership of their bottom line, and to have fun again in their business. Welcome to Profit is a Choice.
Michele 01:05
Hey, Katie, welcome to the podcast.
Katie O'Brien 01:07
Hi, and thanks for having me.
Michele 01:09
I am excited to chat with you today. So we're going to be talking about websites, we're going to be talking about how to know if you've outgrown your website, what we need to be successful when we create a website. But before we get into all of that, I'd love to hear a little bit about your journey in business, and what you've done. And what brought you to the point of serving the interior design industry with building websites?
Katie O'Brien 01:35
Absolutely. It definitely wasn't a straight line of the entrepreneurial journey. It's been up and down and curves and pivots. And it actually started back in 2011. I was about to marry my husband, and we knew we were going to want a family and we both were kind of like, I want to stay home with my kids that weren't there yet. And what do I need to do to prepare for that, essentially. So that was when I said, Okay, I want to pursue an online business. And I went and pursue professional coaching. So I went through a coaching certification for a program around here in the Northern Virginia area, and was set on this online coaching business. And by the time my daughter was born, I had essentially given my notice to my nine to five and said, I'm going to be staying home with my daughter and running this business. So I can't do the nine to five anymore. And it worked really well and things picked up and I loved online business. And I was that was when I was dipping my toes into websites too. And just really falling in love with the tech and the design and everything that goes into it while doing it for my business. And then some of my coaching clients as well. And it was when my son was born a few years later, when I realized I needed to pivot. It was either quit or pivot, essentially. And I did think I was gonna quit, I was like, I just can't do this, not till the kids are in school, because I still wanted to stay home with them. I wanted to be home all the time with them. But I also wanted a business and my son proved that was gonna be a lot more difficult. I felt like originally,
Michele 03:07
Just let me ask, this was it just because I let you know, I grew my business around my children. So was it because of just having two kids and the amount of work of two small children? Or was it like what made it I guess I'm curious as to what made you think, stop or pivot versus slow down and reimagine what you were doing, like, what was it? What was that dynamic like?
Katie O'Brien 03:33
Yeah, absolutely. So I definitely think we bit off a little bit more than we can chew in regards to, I looked at having my son and going on maternity leave at like the typical corporate environment. And so I was like, Okay, I'm gonna take two months off because I don't need three. And then I'll come right back in and I had a waitlist of clients. And really what it was, was we also had moved,
Michele 03:57
Were there coaching clients,, Katie?
Katie O'Brien 04:01
Yes, So they were coaching clients. And they essentially, as you know, like coaching, you need a quiet, intimate space, like you dig deep and that's a very kind of sacred space almost when you're in that relationship. So I had a newborn who wouldn't sleep, and he also wouldn't go to anyone but me. So even like I would come out of the shower, and I would put my son down to sleep, I jump in the shower and I'd come out he would be wailing, and I think why isn't my husband helping and I would go in and my husband is holding him and he is just waylaid and as soon as I take him it's quiet. So that was kind of essentially my 24/7 Unless he was on my chest or pretty much on my chest he was he was screaming
Michele 04:47
That definitely will change the trajectory of the business no doubt.
Katie O'Brien 04:50
Yet and it was essentially to like okay, do I find like should my husband watch him like upstairs in the corner room while I'm downstairs in the corner basically meant to have these calls. But as every mother knows, like, they're not going to be able to be focused knowing if their kid is screaming or potentially screaming. And so that was kind of like, I can't do this. And awesome. I had a two year old. So my daughter was two at that time. And we had also just moved, so moved into a new home. And so she started not sleeping either, because of obviously new baby brother new home, right, all of that. So just it was the family life that I was like, I can't do both. This is I can't do it. It's kind of invited that that quit or pivot moment is interesting,
Michele 05:31
I will say that my business has shifted over the years from where it started. And every time there was some type of pivot, something was happening in our personal life or personal health journey that caused that pivot. And as difficult as it was, in that time, they've all been good pivots, like, moved me into a better place, ultimately, then where I may have gone on my own because of necessity, to keep moving. And I love that you started the conversation Katie with your entrepreneurial journey hasn't been a straight line we talked about on the podcast, I've said it quite a few times, and I wasn't the author of it. But you don't you don't take the elevator to the top, it's up and down the stairs and around the building to get there. There's just not that super fast track that way. And I will say that even my business right now doesn't look like where it started. And I'm still growing and adding new businesses and doing new things all the time. So I love that I love that journey. I also love Katie, how you and I think this really informs the way that you work now is that you created the life that you want to you and your husband talked about created the life that you wanted, and then built your business around that life. I've had multiple husband, wife, teams and families on the podcast who have talked about doing a very similar exercise. I know I have my coaching clients do that at the beginning of the year, where are you taking off time? What are you doing? What boundaries do you need to put in place for your home and your life. And then now let's go build a business around that around what's available to the business. Because if not, the business can become a hog and it can take up everything. And then family life and personal takes the back seat and and while there may be times and stages in our life that we can do that, like I'm in a stage right now where I've had to pivot back to family. But I would say a few short months ago, it was all about business. I'm kind of my kids are grown, we were able to do that. But I would never want to have a business at the expense of my children. Right? I don't think anybody would I mean, we all we want it all is truth. It's just read it, we have to prioritize what comes first and what comes second. And the priorities can shift based on stage of life, Season of Life, whatever's happening. So I applaud you for number one, even thinking to have the conversation. And then number two, realizing that what you had built at that time, was not going to serve the ultimate goal of your family. But then being able to kind of reimagine it for what is another thing that you do, it's not so client facing that you've got to sit there with them in that intimate space, so that you can continue to grow your skills and use your talents and do something different.
Katie O'Brien 08:26
Yeah, absolutely. And I was kind of at that moment where I feel like everyone who wants to start a business, if they don't have that clear idea, they're they're making all those lists, you know, what can I do? What am I good at? What can I excel at? What can I make money at? And for me, it was like design tech, websites, Online Business Marketing. So all of that I loved. And my husband was actually the one that's like, you know, you could build websites for money, like people will pay you for that. And where I was mindset wise, I was like, No, everyone loves to do their own websites, like everyone is doing what I'm doing and loving it. And he's like, I don't think so. Katie.
Michele 09:01
That's so funny. Because when I in December of 2012, before I started this business, consulting business, and coaching business in January of 2013, I had said to my husband, I don't think anybody would pay to talk to me about all these things. And we went out to dinner at a Japanese restaurant, and this is no lie. I had been taking courses, I kept thinking that this is what I wanted to do. I'd gone back to think about going back into counseling like going the more medical, psychological route of things. Then I thought, No, I want to do coaching. So I was exploring all that. Anyway, we go out to dinner at a Japanese restaurant, one of those family styles have it? Yeah. And we're sitting there with our kids. They were in middle school, high school at the time, maybe early high school. And long story short, I started this conversation with a mom with two little boys. We're all sitting there together. She leans around me and looks at my husband. She says your wife should write a book or start a business because people would pay to hear what she has to say, out of the blue, she had no idea what I had just said to him before we went out, I started crying. And that's when it hit me like, Okay, wait a minute, other people are seeing things here that maybe I am so blinded, because it's easy for me. Or it's in my sweet spot that, again, we think, why would people pay to do this if we love it so much. And the truth of the matter is, that is our superpower. That's usually what we're really great at, where we've been gifted. And when we're when we kind of recognize that and work in that. So, so much more fun to get paid for what you already love doing, than the drudgery of getting paid for something you hate. Sure. So you started then offering website design and build services? Is that how that kind of started?
Katie O'Brien 10:51
Yeah, right. So honestly, I had a mindset problem in the beginning, because it was kind of like who would pay me and I always looked up to website designers and developers and I would see their businesses no beautiful website, and I just kind of had that imposter syndrome like that could never be me, like I could never have that business. So I actually started by providing those services, but calling myself a virtual assistant, completely downgrading what I was doing. And just, you know, I'm essentially going to build your website, design it develop it, but as a virtual assistant. And that opened a lot of doors for me. But I quickly learned that I was doing a disservice for my clients. And the reason is, a lot of times depending on the on the field a lot of times virtual assistants are you know, you do, the business owner tells them what to do, how to do it, what they want it to look like, and me with the background that I had, I would get into their websites. And I'm like, oh, no, like, this isn't serving you. We need to change this, we need to do that. Or Oh no, the tech sides really messed up or let's move this design. So I had all this like, creative and strategic juices flowing. But then as the virtual assistant, I almost felt like, Okay, I wasn't invited in No, no, it wasn't like, Okay, I'll do that. But I'm not gonna be proud of it. And it's not going to help like you're gonna want to change this.
Michele 12:08
What it did was it took you out of the driver's seat for what you need to be done.
Katie O'Brien 12:13
Yes, exactly. And so it was just a really was just a couple months of that. And I realized I needed to bump my prices up. I needed to own what I did. And so I was funny. I took a web designer and developer course just so I could feel official and I knew everything that was on there. I was like, okay, okay, you know, just check it. I got it.
Michele 12:32
But sometimes, that type of education is great, because you're you go, Okay, I really do know what I know.
Katie O'Brien 12:39
Yeah, that's exactly what it did. Yeah. For me. So that was really it. That was the beginning, the very beginning of January, or very beginning of 2016, is when I started building an offering website services. And then I was coming essentially out of the coaching industry. So it's pivoting from that until a lot of my clients were professional coaches, they were service based businesses. So it fit really well because I could speak their language. And I already knew online, like the online business world really well. And I really did that for probably, I mean, I don't even know how long that was. So a couple years into that, and it was about a year, year and a half ish ago is when I was like, Okay, I want to work with interior designers. I want to work with home professionals, really interior designers, like people in that space. And but again, it was a mindset thing. Oh, no, I can't do that I'm so successful that I'm so well known in this niche of coaches and service providers. And I can't need I can't pivot again, like who am I to pivot all this success essentially, is what I'm telling myself. And then finally, I was meeting with a friend of mine who also runs a business and I had this epiphany one day, I want these clients, but I'm not telling anyone that I want to work with that. Like I'm not saying it clearly, I'm not articulating it. My website doesn't speak to it. My social doesn't. It's always like service based business. And so finally, during one of our calls, I was like, I'm gonna do it, I'm just gonna rebrand, I'm going to change on my copy all my marketing, and I'm not going to take any new clients, I'm going to focus on interior design, websites, projects only. And she's like, okay, and that really like last year was kind of the rebrand and the rearticulated my message and so forth and the offering that and then kicking it off, obviously this year to well, and you know,
Michele 14:34
They are me having worked in both worlds, they are extremely close in that service base mindset is still service based. Yeah, it's just a more defined service based offering. I get the question all the time in my coaching. Michele, will you coach other people? Well, I have. I've coached all types of industries, but they've all been service based. Because that's really that's what I understand. That's what I've lived that when I breathed for 30 years of business, and so it just makes more sense to me to talk to them. The language is a little different here and there, right? The things that we're using, but it's, it's really very much the same. But I love that you took the leap, you change the words, you put it out there. Yeah. And then you said that scout? Awesome, awesome. Okay. So with all of that knowledge behind you, let's start by talking about what you believe the five website essentials are for interior designers. So if you're, if you're an interior designer listening, and my call that that whole umbrella of Interior Design Home professionals, what is it that they need? Or
Katie O'Brien 15:39
Yeah, I have kind of put it down into five essentials that I feel are really important. And it's definitely not something where you can go, Okay, I'll just add this to my homepage, or I'll do this, it's kind of the bigger picture, because I feel like websites really are, yes, strategy. They're a big picture marketing tool to support your business. So the very, very first one is concise and intentional copy. So website copy, the words on your website, are so important. And I feel a lot of people even who come to me, or they'll reach out to me for a website, and we start talking, and then I start talking about their website copy. It's like, oh, I didn't even think about that, you know, they're not like it's it. When you think website design, you think pretty and strategic and flowing and all that, but the words on your website are so important. And so essential. Number one is really concise, copy that speaking to your target audience, that's clear, it's to the point and you know, helps them know, like, what that next direction is, and moving forward with you.
Michele 16:41
That is so true. And I think that we get so used to words or phrases or ways to speak, that we don't know what it's like to be on the other side of our coffee, if you will. And so it's really having that person or that expertise to say, I'm coming in looking at this fresh, not knowing what's in your head, your mind, your brain or your intentions. This is what I'm picking up from your coffee. I know I've had to have people look at things and go, can you understand this outside of my brain? Because we put things together in our brain and make assumptions and take the leaps that they don't always take when they're reading. I mean, you can look at that when you build support documentation or anything like that. And people are waiting. They're like, how did you get that? Where did you go from there? And so I love that clear, concise, very intentional, I'm very big on that. And then also, you're leading them down a pathway. So you're telling them what to do and where to go next. You're not leaving them hanging? Yeah, exactly. Okay, perfect. All right, what's the second thing?
Katie O'Brien 17:45
So the next one, it talks more design wise. So the aesthetic, and with interior designers, typically providing an a luxury service, their branding should match that service. So really just an elevated brand design. So that means everything unified, cohesive, crisp, your logo, your fonts, the color palette, all of that being a very elevated experience, no matter where they are on your website, and then also kind of take it another step further on your social media and anywhere else you're showing up online.
Michele 18:18
That consistency is key. It's kind of like I remember just something really simple, putting a headshot out there and using a different headshot for every social channel that you're on. And people are like, who are you? Sometimes having that same picture, go across multiple channels helps people recognize who you are, and having a good clean picture of yourself. Yeah, I've even seen beautiful brands, and then they use an old headshot. Where are you doing? Yes, that?
Katie O'Brien 18:49
Yeah, my rule of thumb is if you go to the grocery store, can someone recognize you at the grocery store? I mean, granted, you're not, you're not gonna be all glammed up, but are they gonna know who you are?
Michele 18:59
Similar? Yes, exactly. Yeah, like in the same decade? Yeah. And it's usually helpful. Okay, so we've got concise, unintentional copy and aesthetic so that your branding matches your service levels? Yeah. What's the next one?
Katie O'Brien 19:14
So the next one is what I call a strategic flow. And this
Michele 19:18
is really this is getting me going here. Now go ahead, right.
Katie O'Brien 19:23
So really strategy, and then the flow of your website thinking before you create or design or do anything on there. Number one, what's the point of your website? What's the goal? What do you want visitors to do? And so sometimes people were like, well, I don't, I don't know. I've never thought of like what the goal of my website is, and really, it's that primary call to action that you want people to take. So let's say it's to learn more about your services may be downloaded an investment guide, book, a discovery call. So that's the primary kind of call to action, the primary goal there, then everything else, everybody every page, every design element on that website should have a very strategic and seamless flow that moves people closer to that goal and call to action.
Michele 20:12
Now, do you find you get pushback on that when you talk about that with your clients, when you're actually doing it? Or do you think they understand that? Is that something that I mean, most people, I think, understand that there's a major call to action. And it's usually on a design website to contact us. If you want to know more, or like you said, download this, this document. I'm asking, I guess, when you get down to the nuts and bolts of actually doing it, the people like, get on the train with the flow, or did they go, Oh, I don't like that, or do they get into the details too much there.
Katie O'Brien 20:47
So honestly, most of the kickback I get is like in the very beginning, because they're not used to it. And they're like, Well, why I don't think that's necessary, like my about page should just be about me, and I don't need a button on there. And but once we get into it, and when I provide the designs, and I talk through it with a design review video, and I explain everything, and sometimes they won't like their copywriter, or they won't even put in the buttons or say what they want it to be. And I will put them in there cuz I'm like, we need a call to action here. And then they scroll we're gonna need another call to action. And once they see it, they're like, Wow, this is so clear. So it supports the kind of just the overall flow of the site itself. So once they see it, they're like, oh, this makes sense.
Michele 21:29
Right? Yeah. And it's funny that you say that I can remember. I mean, having had websites built for years being suggested that there was multiple call to actions on a page as you scroll down and I kept thinking that feels so salesy that feels so salesy, and the truth of the matter is, it wasn't salesy. It was making it easy for them to click. Yeah. And if I had to wait for them to scroll all the way to the top, or all the way to the bottom to move to the next piece, after they had consumed some amount of copy was actually making it more difficult for them. But I didn't want it to be like the Ginsu knives commie now call me now communists? I mean, that's all that I could see in my brain was that flashing light of coming out coming out? And I was like, Oh, that feels so Yuck, that feel so yeah. But in actuality, it wasn't when placed properly in moving me through the flow. Yeah, absolutely. Because
Katie O'Brien 22:23
you're going to get people who land on your website, any page on your website, and they're gonna read that one liner and be like, This is my girl, what do I do? How do I how do I get in touch, and they're gonna want to take action right away? Or if it's a referral from someone, and they're like, Okay, now what, but then you really don't want to make it hard. No, like, and then you'll get people who are like, I need a little information like, this sounds good. But tell me more. And so then they'll scroll. And then at that point, they'll be ready. And then you know, people who scroll all the way to the bottom be like, Well, how would I do that was great. But what now you know. And so and this could be, you know, you could definitely, obviously, there's not going to be one single call to action, you're going to want to link to your services page, and like, link to the about page where appropriate, you're going to want to grow your email list. So that's going to be a call to action to, but really clearly identifying the structure of your business, what is the primary goal of your website? And then what are all those other secondary goals that will then support that primary?
Michele 23:15
Awesome, awesome. Alright, so what comes after strategic flow?
Katie O'Brien 23:19
Okay, so the next one, I always want to start with this, but I think it's pretty, like, everyone talks about it. But it's photography. But the photography is not just professional, but relational. So your ideal clients and your audience, how are they relating into the photography that they see. So using photos of yourself, and of your projects, and really start telling a story along with that, that fits your personality showcases your services style, if you have kind of aesthetic, or even just the broad range of services that you provide, showcasing that in a way with really professional photography.
Michele 24:00
I did a podcast with Catrina Maxwell. Okay, next photo. And she is one of the brand photographers here in Atlanta that I worked with. And in that I'll link it in the show notes for anybody who's listening. But one of the things that were that was really great about my experience working with her and that we kind of dug into on that podcast is we started having conversations about my social media and my website and all the different pieces of marketing that I had, what story that I want to tell what different storylines that I want to tell we used it. So you'll see some of my pictures are like me holding a stack of some of my favorite books. I'm an avid reader, some RME playing with my two little dogs or hanging out with my daughter in love or, you know, whatever it is that I'm doing, but telling a story through that and I think that's so important. It makes me think about when you go in to buy a home and you're deconstructing the home to some degree so that it looks more like a house like something that somebody could move into, like you're taking some of your personal out that opening it up so that their personal will fit so they can see themselves in that space. And if you think about it, that's kind of what we're doing here is we're making our potential clients that those that are seeking out interior design help, we want them to see their home and their life in our pictures, not look at it and go, Well, I couldn't live there, or that's not about me, or I don't fit that, because that's going to be kind of that self eliminating picture that they're going to self edit and say, I don't fit. I mean, even if it's an aesthetic, right, but I love that just create the same kind of story that you want to tell. And then tell the story well, right from the beginning to the end, tell the story.
Katie O'Brien 25:49
Absolutely. And I think it's to giving your personality on, especially with your headshots and your brand photography show up as yourself. And then the right people are going to want to do business with you. So for me a lot of my headshots, obviously, I'm smiling, and I'm laughing and some but I'm also talking about websites, but I've had a lot of clients reach out and they're like, you just looked fun. Like you you do tech and you do websites, and you do all the things that I hate, but you look like you do it fun, you know, like it's like, yeah, we have a good time. Like we laugh, we joke, it's like it's not this heavy, scary thing to do the same thing with interiors, interior designers with their headshots, but then even also with their the photos that they're using our portfolio, LS story of that project use copy within that to to tell that story so they can kind of step inside that project and understand it better.
Michele 26:41
Right? I love that. I love that. I'm a big fan of some of the before and afters too. Because sometimes you look at those pictures and you think, wow, that building or that home or whatever started with great bones, or it started with so much going for it. And when you can see where it came from and what it moved into. That tells a huge story. Even without copy started here ended up here, I can see that. So then I can create the story and start creating a story even for my own home. So just not missing the before and after aspect of storytelling, I think is important in an interior design world.
Katie O'Brien 27:17
Yeah, absolutely. I just have a client who's going to start next month that we're working on kind of getting all of our stuff together for her website. And one of those things is what we talked about is kind of having that little thumbnail of a before picture. Because she was like, you know, my pictures alone are fine. Like everyone can kind of do this. But you put that before photo out and it's like, wow, look at that transformation. So really showcasing that on those project pages.
Michele 27:39
Yeah, I think that's one of the biggest storytellers is I follow some accounts on Instagram that are just like a fist. I think one of them might even be like before and after design. Yeah. And it's just people from all over the place going, here's what it looked like. Here's what we did. I love the flip of furniture that way. Here's what it looked like we've cut off the legs and redid this. And here's what it looks like. And you're just like, wow, like that is inspiring to me, I get that's a good thing. I have a business or two right now. Because I would go like buy furniture and chop it up in the garage and make something else out of that me my husband's all the time going. What are you doing for Christmas? I asked for a bottle cutter so I could learn to cut up wine bottles and make candles. He said, Michele, what are you doing? You have no time? What are you doing? But I watch these things. And I'm like, Oh, that looks so cool. Like I could step into that story. Even if I can't, I feel like I could step into that story. So I think it's great. I mean, I even tried to do that on my website, I want people to step into the transformation that they can have in their business the same way that they want their clients to step into the transformation that they could have in their home. Absolutely. Alright, so what's the fifth thing?
Katie O'Brien 28:50
So we kind of touched on this a little bit. Okay, and you now that you'd like it to be easy? No, that really is the fifth tip is the overall ease of your website. So how easy is it for them to navigate your website, associate your brand and website with the experience that you're going to provide them. So that's service how like tech terms, we'll call it user experience or usability of it, how easy is it for them to understand what you do, who you do it for? And then how to get started.
Michele 29:26
Something that I find very interesting is and this will probably lead us into the next conversation we're going to have is my website has probably been rebuilt five times in the last 10 years, like every two to three years. I go in and we overhaul it. Yeah, because what happens is over time, we're adding in adding in adding in, add this do this meet this need and then you realize it's either gotten jumbled, and it's no longer may be easy, or it it needs to be simplified, or you've made some small All pivots in your business so that something was relevant a year or two ago was no longer relevant. Now, I'm in the process, I just had a new website built last month, and it's clean and it's fresh. And it looks so amazing. And it makes me turn around and look at another website that I haven't go. Okay, that one, we need to probably go in and edit a little bit just because it's been almost three years and it's been accumulating if you it's kind of like a room that accumulates and every once in a while, I have to go in and take everything out of the room, and just put back in what I want inside that room. So when we start and we do these five things, we also have to keep them in mind as we grow a business slash website, right? Not just when we build it the first time,
Katie O'Brien 30:46
Right? Okay, it really is, for me, when I'm working with clients, I want it to be as timeless as possible in regards to helping in allowing them to allowing the website to evolve as their business evolves. So your business, my business, every online business owner that I know, their business is always evolving in one way or another. And so your website should be evolving right alongside with it. And so making that easy, and streamlined and simple and having it still support your business is really important.
Michele 31:21
Right, right. So with that all said, then Katie, how do we tell if our business has outgrown our website.
Katie O'Brien 31:30
So I would say my number one kind of sure tell sign is if you're frustrated with your website, so it's okay, if there's any negative energy, I guess you could say like, because I have people who they just kind of, they're avoiding it, they don't use it, they don't really send people to it. Or if people are like, Oh, I saw you on your website, and it kind of, okay, because they know, like everyone they know it's not, it's not matching the level of service that they're providing, it's not matching the business at their business has evolved to. And so with that, it's the frustration there. I think, also, if it's making things more complicated, and simplifying, and so I'm a big believer that your website is like your strongest marketing tool, and kind of all of your other marketing, all the other avenues are kind of just arms to your website. So your blog you can have on there that can be your content marketing, your email marketing, your social media marketing, all of that kind of the goal should be to get them back to your website. And then your website is strategically built to achieve that primary goal that we established in the beginning. So if it's not doing that revisiting, maybe I've outgrown this year,
Michele 32:43
right? About how often do you recommend people go in and do an audit of a website to then determine if they've outgrown it, because sometimes it's just updating a few things. It's not always a complete overhaul. Sometimes it's just good. Through editing, updating, changing some words, maybe adding in a new lead magnet doing some small things. And then other times, it's like, like, I can't remember when websites first evolved years and years and years ago, like personal small business websites, they don't look like they do now you didn't scroll down the page the same way, it was very static on the page. And things were just there were just different. We interacted with data differently. We interacted with the websites differently than we interact now. We expected there to be certain things that that maybe we don't look for anymore. We couldn't load pictures, like we can load pictures now. I mean, just so many different things that just tech evolved. But how often do you think we should be doing those audits? So I definitely
Katie O'Brien 33:45
So I definitely say audit your website, kind of just do a full review the bare minimum once a year. So I like to kind of couple this with your beginning of the year planning end of the year planning. However, you kind of have that sometimes people like to do this mid summer because things require them sometimes. And so just kind of going through I actually just published a blog post. It's like an annual website review where I just go through your list, ask yourself these questions. And depending on what those answers are to those questions, you'll get an idea of like, okay, we're getting close to a website overhaul or like, Okay, I just need a few more sales pages, or I needed to hire a copywriter clean up a copy, I need to get my updated headshots on there. And so I've had a lot of clients over the years of building websites since 2016. A lot of them will come back to me. And I will say I can probably count on one hand. I don't even want to say a full on people who have come back and be like, hey, I need a whole overhaul. And the reason that those few people have it's because they've completely changed their business model. They've gotten new headshots, all new messaging and kind of have a whole new vibe to their brand and their aesthetic and so it needed that overhaul. The other people they reach out, Hey, can we add this Hey, can you update the portfolio? Hey, can you just Do the thing or if a new service, can we change the way that this looks? And so allowing their websites to evolve without having that full overhaul?
Michele 35:07
Right, that's nice too. I know for me, it's been important that, that I can add in small things, take out small things, keep it fresh, keep it moving, but at the same time, not feel like I'm having to throw the baby out with the bathwater every single time that I go to do it. Yes. So when we're looking at our portfolios, Katie, what are three common mistakes? Or what are? Are there common mistakes that people make when they do it? Or do you see things? It's funny how we see trends, I was telling somebody the other day, you almost don't even know it's like it's common, or that it's trending or that it is an issue until it happens two to three times in a row in a short amount of time. And then you're like, Oh, I'm starting to see your repeat here, I'm starting to see a pattern. And that's something we need to address. So what kind of things do you see like that?
Katie O'Brien 35:55
I would say, with a portfolio, one of the biggest mistake, I make mistakes I see. And even I think it's hard because I think a lot of very well known very well established interior designers kind of do it this way. And so I think we look up to them thinking we should do it the way that third doing it, that's the best of the best and the most effective way, when in reality, they can afford to break the rules, because they don't, you know, they don't need to follow the rules per se. But for me with a portfolio, it's one of the mistakes that I see is only having photos, or kind of just front and center, you have this huge photo, and then you scroll down, and maybe there's like a one liner, and then you have a whole bunch of other photos. And so it's like, okay, these are beautiful. Now what like so essentially, the person who's visiting your website, it really doesn't tell them anything aside from they think that maybe you do projects, and you can take really beautiful photos. And so it leaves so many unknowns for them. And so to really effectively utilize your portfolio page is just probably the most common visited website page on your website aside from homepage, is to tell that story. So to kind of go back and to group your projects together. So you have one featured project. Okay, what's the name of the project? Where is that location? Putting not obviously the address, but the location, get that SEO juice in there? And then tell the story of the client? Why did they reach out to you? What services did you provide? And all of this can be done in like two little sentences.
Michele 37:23
And, you know, one of my favorites to see is what problem did you solve? Yeah, right. So not just here's all the pretty stuff. And here's what we did. But the challenge in this kitchen was this, or the challenge in this space with the lighting was this. And here's how we solved it, to me. Those are the ways that made me think, Well, I'm a strategic thinker. But that's the way that I look at it going, not just did you make it pretty bit the functional, it's kind of that functionality, conversation without being as direct the challenges they have. Like, for example, I just had two chairs recovered antique chairs for my office. And I wanted a purple velvet, because why not? Right is my color is and I love it. But I ended up going with a performance velvet, because I my kids are grown. But I've got two little dogs. And they're 11 and 14. And they're just the hogs and they want to jump up on those chairs. And I wanted them to do it. So the story of why I would choose a performance fabric would be so that my dogs and my kids and whoever could come over and have grandkids and they spit like and wipe that right out. I think sometimes those things that we can tell in the copy. And as we group it, and as part of that story, which kind of goes back to the way we built the website with that kind of forethought. It's when you're updating and adding and changing and developing to do the same thing. It was another thought that I had to Katie when you talk about grouping them together, if not back, if I told this story the other day, I can't even remember if I've told it on the podcast or not. But I went and stayed in this beautiful, beautiful home one time, and they gave me the master bedroom. And when I got there, I realized there was no closet. Like there's no closet in the master bedroom. And not even in the master bathroom. I had a sauna. I had a fireplace in the bathroom. I had a Jacuzzi tub, I had all the things. I didn't have a closet. And I said that was the weirdest thing I'd ever seen him. I've never been in a bedroom without a closet like not even an armbar like nowhere to hang anything like there was no hanging ability. I guess unless I hung it inside the sauna. There was nowhere to hang. Okay, well, the same thing happens when you just put random pictures on a website. We have no way to collect them. It's like having a bunch of clothes on hangers and know where to hang them know where to pull it together. Nothing to hook it on. So there's no hook that we're giving them for that picture to help them understand. And you don't need haven't realized how much you need it until you go to a bedroom but no closet. Really weird. But I think it's the way I've been even thinking with some of I've come back and use that it's stuck with me. It's such a learning moment to come back and go, Hey, where am I even providing education, but I'm not giving them a hook to hook it on. Because if that's why people I think struggle with Financials, like look at a financial document, but they don't have a hook to hook it up. What does it mean? It's a flat piece of paper, it's like a picture that's not in an album, or that's not in a portfolio, you don't know, the reference to it, you don't understand the meaning behind it, it is an out buyer, instead of part of a collective. And it's that collection that tells the story or that gives us even if it's one picture, if there's two sentences that give us something to hold on to. And to hook on to my son is dyslexic. And I can remember when we were going through, and we were learning, I was learning how to teach him through an Orton Gillingham method. And one of the things they said was, they have different file cabinets. So it's smart. He's learning he can get it. But his he's using different file cabinets, different hooks. So you have to find how his brain hooks, and his was verbal in an audio. So he could hear something and he's got a key and memorize entire movies. But reading it was different because of the visual aspect. So we had to learn how he interpreted data and what hooks he used. And I think it's the same thing when we look at a picture. And when we look at that story, whether it's our brand story, or whether it's our aesthetic story, or the story of what we can do in your home, or in your coaching or in your financials or in whatever it is a story we're telling. It's giving him something to connect it together.
Katie O'Brien 41:50
Absolutely.
Michele 41:52
So when you start working with a client, how do you go through this process? What is your process look like when you bring them in to do all of this work? Because for those listening, they may be like, Oh my gosh, I don't have a story to tell her. Oh, my goodness, I don't even know how to make this easy. And it all feel so hard and complicated and overwhelming. And I mean, I love tech, right? I do. I love tech. I'm a tech entrepreneur, but I'm telling you, tech can make me take my head and bank a wall. And I'm glad that you're smiling. But there are moments that I am not smiling, dealing with some of the tech and all the different connectivities that we do. And so it is a lot for those of us who even know it even more. So for those that it's not their sweet spot. How do you calm nerves and take them through a process?
Katie O'Brien 42:42
Yeah, absolutely. So that's a great question. And I definitely, I'm definitely not immune to those. I feel like when it comes to websites and online business like I can, I'm there but like when it comes to learning, like the new social media apps or my phone, like I don't want to get a new phone just so I don't have to learn how to use the new one. Right, so I get it. But in regards to the process, a lot of it is done. It's kind of set up for success in the prep work. And so I start with a it's of course, we have a website strategy session where we'll sit down, we'll talk about what pages What's that goal of their website, and even talking a little bit about their client journey or their customer journey. So okay, so once they do complete your form, or they do download that investment guide, or they do sign up on your list, well, then what, what comes next, and so getting a clearer picture on that experience that their client is having in regards to kind of the overall big picture strategy. But in regards to like the branding and the aesthetic, and making sure we're telling a story and so forth in regards to the design of it all, is getting really clear on not just their services and having them clearly articulate their services, but really knowing their target audience and more specifically, like their ideal client. So who are we speaking to here? Yeah, we kind of have this like, for me, I've got Oh, interior designer, that's kind of the target audience in then I have my ideal clients like a very specific person in mind. I know her story. I know her family, I know what our husbands like I know what she does on the weekend where she lives and so getting really clear on that their struggles, their pain points there and the experience that they want to create for that. So getting all of that out I had a five part brand assignment that guides them through the prep process. So essentially getting everything that's in their head about their business out and getting it into my head and then creating a design and a brand and the visuals alongside the website that's really strategic and built around that and I also do I do Oh, I will say I always recommend that they also hire a copywriter too. And so I have I have recommendations that I do and so in some people will write their own copy and that's fine and if they do, I will read through it as I'm designing. I will help guide them through that process. My copywriters are so skilled at what they do in regards to essentially doing Same thing, pulling out that target audience pulling out who your ideal client helping you articulate your services really clearly if you need that. And so when you do come to my start date, like the start date of your project that you have, you kind of have that out of the way, you don't have to worry about it, you've got someone and probably the most, the biggest headache that they have is to gather all their photos and put them in a folder, you know. And so once that start date does roll around, I actually have a 30 day process that I do. So I've done this, where it's taken four months, if it's taken two months, three months, and I really found that 30 days is that sweet spot, because it just allows us to be excited. And it allows it not to take a whole quarter up of their business, you know, they're busy.
Michele 45:41
And so I started people that are like, eight, nine months in the build. And I'm like, You better have some killer, like you better have a whole store online. If it's taking you that long, because that is a long time to build a website. Like I would lose so much interest that by the time it was built, I would feel like I needed to build it again that it would be so outdated.
Katie O'Brien 46:00
Yeah. I mean, I think about how much your business can evolve in a much like, yeah, and then you have this website that you're like, Oh!
Michele 46:09
Or you having to use the old one that you have for the next night? And you're not even happy about it? Yeah, isn't it? Yes.
Katie O'Brien 46:13
Yes, exactly. So I've definitely I've always been a systems girl. So people come to me, they come to me, obviously for the website and the branding, they leave and they're just like, I love your systems I use Asana is IT project management, everything is very streamlined. I am a type A deadline oriented type of girl, everything is super onpoint. And so within that we can do that 30 day process. So the beginning, it starts with the homepage design mock up and their brand design elements that are logos, their colors, fonts all work together. So I used to send like, here's a logo, you know, I'm like, okay, kinda like the story like, Okay, well, that looks funny on a white piece of paper or in a mock up even. And so now I say, Here's your homepage, like, this is what it will look like, this is how we can use your logo. This is what the footer, you know, all of that kind of experience there. We go through two rounds of refinements. And then we go into the staging site. And then they get a link to review the staging site. So essentially exactly what it looks like on their live domain, to full rounds of refinements there within give feedback and make copy tweaks if they need to swap photos if they don't like the ones that are in there. And then we prep them for launch, which is usually a Monday. So it's about four weeks, and then that next Monday, we prep for their launch. And what I one thing that's a little bit different, too, is I'm definitely not one of those website designers who just like in the website's mind forever, you don't like don't touch it on your break it I want them to to have that freedom and flexibility to go in and swap a photo ad copy, add a new page, add some blog posts if you want. But I do you also do long term care plans for the large group of clients who are like, I don't want to touch my website ever again, hear you do it. And I'll just tell you what I need or if I need something new. So they I offer those services as well after launching.
Michele 47:55
That's awesome. Well, Katie, this has been a lot of fun. Thank you so much for sharing all your insight. Where can people find out more about you and about your website? How to get under their own?
Katie O'Brien 48:06
Sure, absolutely. So they can go to KatieOBriendot.com. So all my information is on there. And then if they wanted to schedule a call or to reach out they could just use that contact form will be lots of book a call buttons on there are lots of calls to action. And then I'm always on Instagram as well @KatieO'Brienwebdesign.
Michele 48:25
Awesome. Well, thank you again, so much for taking the time to share your expertise and your knowledge and to give our listeners something to think about is the go look at their own website.
Katie O'Brien 48:34
Thank you so much for having me. Take care.
Michele 48:37
Thanks, Katie for sharing your expertise with us and assisting us and perhaps looking at our website through fresh eyes. Strategy is equally important when building a business as it is when building a website. So if you want to talk about how to build a company that allows you do your best work last serving your ideal client, apply for a discovery call on my website at scarletthreadconsulting.com, I would love to help you become more profitable because we all know profit doesn't happen by accident. Profit is a Choice is proud to be part of the designnetwork.org where you can discover more design media reaching creative listeners. Thanks for listening, and stay creative and business minded.