205: Creating a Brand with a Story for Your Design Firm
Michele 00:00
Hello, my name is Michele, and you're listening to Profit is a Choice. On the podcast with me today is Jill Palleschi of Jula Paper Co. Jill created Jula Paper Co out of a passion for design and the love of celebrations both big and small. Jill believes that branding should be accessible to everyone and she supports business owners at all levels as they create brands representative of their business. Listen in today as we discuss the story of our brand, how to not be trendy, but to create a long lasting brand, and what to do if you can't afford a custom brand when you're first starting your business.
Michele 00:42
Every day, empowered entrepreneurs are taking ownership of their company financial health, and enjoying the rewards of reduced stress and more creativity. With my background as a financial software developer, owner of multiple businesses in the interior design, industry, educator, and speaker, I coach women in the interior design industry to increase their profits, regain ownership of their bottom line and to have fun again in their business. Welcome to Profit is a Choice.
Michele 01:18
Hi, Jill, welcome to the podcast today.
Jill Palleschi 01:21
Thanks, Michele. I'm so happy to be here with you.
Michele 01:24
Oh, I'm glad to have you here as well. So just to be fair, for all those who are listening, we have worked together for many years on some of the different branding pieces and parts of my company, anything that you see that you think looks like ugly or garish, I've done it completely on my own. Anything that you see that is beautiful and lovely. I'm certain that Jill or Jill and Kate together have had a hand in making me look really, really great. So I am very appreciative Jill, for how you have supported me and my team. And not only all of this, but you also have developed all of my branding for Metrique Solutions. And it's been an exciting process because it's so different than everything else that I've done. And I think you even said it was different than some of the work the view had done.
Jill Palleschi 02:12
Absolutely was and it was really fun to see from your concept through the brand development. And I can't wait to see when it's all complete, but it was definitely out of my wheelhouse and stretched my creative muscles when it was really fun to work on.
Michele 02:27
Yeah, because in Metrique, just a couple of things they, we had to come up with a brand. But we were also trying to work around some trademark challenges that were happening at the same time. And it wasn't the normal here one or two colors or three colors, we needed an entire color palette to be able to handle all of the coloration for a visual dashboard inside a software application.
Jill Palleschi 02:50
Right? Yeah, there were a lot of colors involved. But yeah, seeing the way that you needed it to develop from a number standpoint, and also from a creative standpoint was, that was definitely the most challenging part. And I think we did a good job blending all those colors to be complimentary. And keep the focus on your logo, the few previews I've seen, everything looks really great. So I'm excited to see the finished product.
Michele 03:18
Yeah, you know, it's one of those things, I think, with any creative process, the longer you're removed from that creative process, you don't always remember even the emotion that it evokes or what you have to think through when, again, I developed Scarlet Thread as a major logo back in 2003. And I worked with at that point, a woman who did branding for Chick fil A. And so she was, you know, huge companies. And we went through the branding for Scarlet Thread. And then over the years that certainly developed and we're going to even talk about as part of our conversation about updating some of your brand and brand resources and collateral. But this one was one that was completely brand new from scratch, serving a slightly different market or more open ideal client, if you will, then the more narrow view that I have for my ideal client within scarlet thread. But it also made me kind of, I would I would even love to hear your thoughts on this. Before we even jump in. There was an emotional connection to the fonts to the colors to not just to the colors but to the colors together. Like which color looks good next to this color. If I were to put them on a graph together. It may be that there are two colors that I love but put together so that they could be graphed and align or whatever it might come out where it didn't look so good. And I just I don't know that I think I just because I had not done this before. And this level of must have 78 colors versus three. Just kidding, but it was an emotional connection and an emotional process. Do you see that happen in some of the other brands that you do? And how did you even feel on the emotional side of creating something like this a bit different?
Jill Palleschi 05:12
Yeah, absolutely. I do see that a lot. And ironically, I tend to see it more with new business owners. I think there's a decision paralysis sometimes because the project in front of you seems so big. And I think that's maybe part of what played in with Metrique as well, that scarlet brand is established, you know, what you like you very clearly know who your ideal customer is. Not that you don't know who that is on the trip. But because it was brand new, there seem to be a million decisions instead of 10. So that's sometimes where I always advocate that reaching out to a designer, and even just talking through the process and your vision, it's helpful, because taking your emotional component out of it makes the decision a little bit easier sometimes.
Michele 05:57
Yeah. And I definitely leaned heavily on you and on Kate to say, Okay, this is what I'm thinking and feeling but steer me or tell me what you're thinking and feeling wanting a little bit more of that group thing than just, here's who I am. And here's what I want. And I think that ultimately, that conversation made it so much better. And I also look at that I think this is important, too, as we jump into more of a branding discussion, Joe, and that is making sure that you connect with the person that's helping you do it. Because I think we both knew coming into this, because we'd work together on some scarlet thread things that this was different for both of us, right? Yeah. But you were willing to have the conversation to see if it's something that you wanted. And it's not that you didn't know how to brand it or anything. It's just it. It was a different type of offering and packaged and what we both would normally do. But what excited me was that you were like, Okay, this is different. But you caught the vision. Right, you could start to see what I was trying to create and to produce and the problems that we were trying to solve in the marketplace. So that when you could kind of put yourself in that headspace, I thought it was fun. And it really energized me that you were as excited about what you were building to represent what I was building as a tool. And so it kept me even more engaged in the process. Because we make decisions quickly, as quickly as you can in a creative process. Right? We certainly you have a process and we tried to follow it as closely as we could. But there was still a lot to think about. Do you always get I'm assuming that you have to have some level of excitement to say yes to a project. But did you feel that too, that you were you're like this is kind of like, no, it's just something fun to get to do that's different?
Jill Palleschi 07:52
Absolutely. I work with so many creative industries and Metrique there still a creative component. But the number and the financial background that was needed to fully conceptualize what it was going to look like, was really different for me. And combining those two areas that you were attracting a client who is very driven by visuals is very aesthetically savvy, but also reminding us that this tool is very numbers driven and really built to help them understand what their business looks like, from a financial perspective, really combined two worlds that you don't see together often.
Michele 08:39
Yeah, I think this made the entire Metrique journey, fun and exciting. It's made it difficult and hard. I'm not gonna lie, it is not been a straight line. But to see people like you who could use your talent and your gifts, you could catch the vision with me. And then you could help guide me and direct me and you did your own research, like what does this look like? What does this mean? How do they feel when they see this? All those things that that I've had churning in me you allowed to turn in your creative process. And I think that is what makes the connection between whoever is listening today when they're choosing their branding specialists. I think you have to really choose someone whether you're spending $3 or $3 million. Somebody who can catch revision who sees what you can see who can see it bigger and better even then you can see it, but who understands and can kind of get into the story do you placed yourself in the story of Metrique is what I would say and you've done the same thing for scarlet thread consulting, you've placed yourself inside the story that my brand is telling. Have you ever thought of it like that?
Jill Palleschi 09:46
I haven't. And I really like the way you said. Yeah, yeah,
Michele 09:49
I'm really great at market messaging for everybody else but myself. So if I ever had to write that down, I could probably not do it. But I do think that's part of it is the brand is telling a story. And so The person who's helping you visually illustrate that brand has to be able to understand and put themselves there, right as the reader as the writer, as all of it, the producer, the publisher, all of it. So let's take a minute, take one step back, Jill, tell everybody a little bit about, clearly they know you do branding now, because we just went there. But tell them a little bit about how you get started your background and a little bit about the company that you have and who you serve. And then we'll jump more into some other branding conversations.
Jill Palleschi 10:31
Sure, I have had a pretty non traditional route to my current business. I was actually a biology major in college and changed my mind when I left school about what was next I was also an athlete, and I played women's ice hockey for the University of Vermont. And when I left school, I felt really lost and took a job with a sports publishing company who was willing to train graphic design for people who had no experience. And so I went to work for them for almost five years. And that is how I became a graphic designer. I never took a class in my life. I never had any formal training. A few career changes. after that. I wasn't doing graphic design for businesses anymore. I was doing digital marketing, but I always kept my business small. And on the side, I was doing wedding invitations. That was 15 years ago, when all of my friends were getting married. And it seemed like a natural fit. And that really grew into a social stationery business. I have a shop on Etsy, I do birthday invitations and birth announcements, christenings about mitzvahs, and three years, four years ago, when I was working for Toys R Us corporate and they closed on my husband, I decided that this was an opportunity to see what was next for my business. Instead of going back to the corporate worlds, I had three boys under the age of five at the time, and I felt a calling to be home with them on a more flexible schedule. And that's when I really entered the world of branding, I have to give Kate credit because she was really the one that pushed me into that. I worked as a white label designer behind her brand for a year. And after a year, we decided that I would kind of venture out on my own. And we would work together referring clients to each other when it was the right fit, but that we both needed some equal FaceTime with our customers. And that's how I ended up with joola. Where it is now. My business is primarily driven by branding for other small businesses, but I also still have a social stationery component to my business. Holiday cards are my biggest part of that. And I really love the relationship I've built on both sides. And I can't see myself getting rid of either one of them. So while they're different, they're both equally as fun for me. And so they're both going to stick around for a while.
Michele 12:54
I love it. You helped me do my holiday cards this year. I did I actually did New Year's cards. Yes. Instead of the Christmas holiday kind of thing. I did a New Year postcard. And so they're becoming
Jill Palleschi 13:06
very popular. Yeah.
Michele 13:08
Well, you know, what it does is it just a quick segue, it removes the pressure of having to get them out and the Christmas rush, I felt like I could take a deep breath. And I even address them all the week after Christmas, which is when I had more time to think anyway. And really what I wanted to tell the people that I support my clients is cheers to the new year. And so, but the card was lovely and beautiful. And it fit in with all of my new updated branding on Scarlet Thread. So I was appreciative and I thought it was pretty and I thought it represented the company that I have very, very well. So I can totally see how that would fit in. So Jill, before we jump in you and I had a conversation before we started just about making this we're going to talk about it even in a deeper way, but really making branding accessible. Share with me just a minute and with the listeners, why you feel so strongly that branding should be accessible when you're starting your business throughout the journey of having your business. And that it shouldn't be something that is only there for the elite or only there for those that are starting a business with $10 million in their pocket.
Jill Palleschi 14:21
Absolutely. Branding. Obviously, as a graphic designer, I think it's one of the most important aspects of your business. But I don't think that it should be something that you go into debt over. I don't think it's something you should lose sleep at night for making this financial investment about. I really believe that branding does not have to be something that you have to see for years for because I have seen the impact that branding can have when you have a clean and sophisticated brand and you use it correctly from the very start of your business. I know when I started my business there were plenty of things But I couldn't afford. Luckily I was a graphic designer. So branding wasn't really part of that. But I do have a soft spot for businesses that are just starting out. And I have said it before. And I will say it again that when you're brand new and you don't have money to spend, the best thing to do is to typeset a logo on your own Canva is a wonderful place to start. And it doesn't have to be anything fancy. But there is a way to get started without spending 1000s of dollars. And actually, I would argue that unless you're in a unique position where you're starting a business and crystal clear about who you are serving, and what you want your brand to look like, you're probably not ready to spend those 1000s of dollars up front. After you're in business for a few years, and you realize who you enjoy working with, you don't enjoy working with. That is a really good time to talk about rebranding, people come to me at all walks of their career path. And some people are looking to change your business name, some people are looking to upscale their logo that they did a few years ago, and they feel like they've outgrown it. And that's really the sweet spot. That is where we can figure out exactly what it's supposed to look like what your color palettes supposed to be. And that is really, when we speak and someone on the other line is so passionate and ready for this next step. That's when I say that you're ready to invest in custom branding.
Michele 16:28
I totally agree with you on that when I think of starting a business at the very beginning. And I've started multiples, even Scarlet Thread Consulting, that the beautiful thing was I just jumped off with my Scarlet Thread logo, my original one that was created back in 2003 was the Scarlet Thread. And then it had a needle that went through the flourish and down. And so because I was doing custom window treatments and custom sewing, we had this whole conversation at the time, because back in 2003 to 2022 were two different worlds of worlds apart. But at the same time, I was working in a lot of more traditional homes. I was I knew who my clients were, I knew their age range, I knew that, at the time, color was really heavy in what we were doing. And it wasn't the white and gray that people are now moving away from again, we're moving back into color is very color saturated. We were the Southern Living home kind of vibe. And the whole even conversation and idea behind my logo at the time was the flourish was kind of that whimsical, creative, we can go outside of traditional, but then the font set for Scarlet Thread was a little bit more traditional. So it was kind of the merging of the two. And showing the things didn't have to be boring. And that's why we have the bright colors, which are also just colors that I love. So with all of that, when it was time to do scarlet thread consulting, we took off the word fee, we took away the needle and just use the same font in a consultancy. So that part I've loved and was comfortable with. But I built my first website myself, I did a lot of that myself, I didn't have the money or didn't really think about the money to dump in it was in a very interesting flux kind of time in my startup career. I had a business plan, I had all these things, but I was still trying to figure out. I mean, like now I would tell you, I don't even use the word consulting directly. I don't have a consulting package, because everybody that hired me for consulting where my non ideal clients, and so I didn't get off as an offering yet is still in the name of the company. So I do now what I call a consultative coaching approach. But all that to say, I wasn't as clear I was clear, but it has become more clear over time. And then when I really got, as you said, more crystal clear. I then hired Kate and I was like, okay, build me the website. Let's build the website that is going to take it. Did my look okay, yes. Did it solve the problem? Yes. Did it get me to the level that I needed to get to so that I could then feel like I was ready to invest the money? Because I really knew who I was. Yes. And then what's been interesting with Metrique is, I came in knowing exactly what I wanted, who I wanted to serve how I wanted to serve them, because I've already been doing that work in spreadsheet form. So it wasn't so grand. It was Yes, as a brand new venture. But I had already been doing the work. So I already knew. And that's why I was willing to invest in that one before it's ever hit the ground. So again, I've been in it on both sides, where I didn't have a lot of money to invest or didn't really know if I had invested at the very beginning it would have probably looked much different than it did later, versus one where I was very crystal clear on the outset and knew exactly what I wanted. I think that's true for website I think it's true for branding, I think it's true for everything at some point, it really comes down to I don't care how beautiful your brand is, or how beautiful your website is, or your note cards or anything. If you can't do the work, and you're working with the wrong people, that's not going to keep the business floating. But what it does is it opens doors for you to do what you love to do. So spending the time to really maximize your talent, your profits, your sales channels, and then creating kind of that messaging that open door is what brings people in? Absolutely. So if you were to think about branding, and what it is as a definition for you, and we know that every single person has a different definition for everything. Let's say for our conversation today, how would you define branding,
Jill Palleschi 20:49
I normally like to talk about branding, in terms of customer touchpoints. And that if you envision the way your customers going to interact with your business from the first day, they see you until you give them their final invoice or until you are wrapping up your package. They should be seeing your branding through every channel and every aspects and every touchpoint that they have with you. That's visually, that is the tone that you use when you speak to them. That is what they see on your website, how you write to them, how you write about your offerings. And so it's really a journey. It is the face of your brand, the face of your business. And it should really represent obviously, your ideal client. But it should also be something that you love to visually look at and use on a regular basis. I've shared this
Michele 21:42
I've shared this before, but I had a client at one point, who had a growing business was really doing awesome in her area. And she wanted to learn more. Yet she kept holding back from putting yourself out there. And I asked her I was, you know, obviously tell me what is it that's holding you back? And her comment was I don't love my logo. And so I don't want it on the door of my workplace. I don't really want to put it I don't want to hand it out. I don't want to do anything with it. And I thought, oh my gosh, that is such an easy thing to go fix. Why would we be holding back from networking opportunities from speaking opportunities, from sales opportunities, because we didn't like the visual representation of our company and our brand. And, you know, I was actually shocked that she had thought deeply enough to realize that that's what it was. I don't know that she realized it at the outset. But you know, we really challenged Why are you not going after the low hanging fruit? This they're like, what is what is it? And she's like, I don't feel like the logo represents who we are and what we do. I feel like it looks maybe young, or it looked, and her words maybe cheesy. And it had been I think self developed. And so that leads me and I know we talked about when you feel like you really know who you are and what you want to do. But when is it time to either up level, a brand refresh your brand, or start to come into your own and really create that first brand outside of maybe designed by Michele kind of idea. That is what mine started with a years and years back in 2000. It was designed by Michele Yeah, yeah. Cuz that was so creative like that. And that lasted for about two years. And then I switched over to scarlet thread of that. But we get started somewhere and people pay me and they hired me and I worked and my business group, they weren't as hung up on the name. I just knew it wasn't going to be the name that was going to carry me through with all of the ideas that I had. But what do you see? What do you recommend? And let's talk through that a little bit.
Jill Palleschi 23:50
Sure. Just to go back to your comment about your client who felt like her logo, she was embarrassed of her logo and didn't want to share it. I think that it's so interesting to hear people say that, especially not to a designer. But I think something people don't realize, too is that people feel this enormous responsibility to come to us come to designers with this really clear vision of what their logo should be. And that is not your responsibility. That's ours. We work through that process together. And I think that's a really big hang up for a lot of people. They feel like they're going to spend money. And they're supposed to come to us with all the answers. And I'd like to tell you and your listeners that that's not the case.
Michele 24:35
It actually makes your work more difficult.
Jill Palleschi 24:38
It says and there are some people who have a very clear vision, and those people are never, they're never sharing things that are trendy. They're never sharing things that they've seen elsewhere on Instagram or Pinterest. They come with this crystal clear thought and maybe it's not perfect, but we get it there. But then there's a big group of people who were to say that I have, I have no idea what I want my logo to look like. But I know that I've outgrown it. And I know that it's time that to answer your question about, when you know that time is right, you kind of hit the nail on the head that when you feel like it doesn't represent your work in your business anymore. That's the time I've had so many clients come to me with these portfolios of 1000s of beautiful images of interiors, and photographers with their wedding images, and they show me their logo, and it is so clear that their work, and their brand just don't line up anymore. And that's a really natural evolution. So it's okay to admit that it doesn't represent my work, it doesn't represent my ideal client. And that really is the best time to invest in your branding.
Michele 25:52
So one of the things that we have done when we have been working on I'll just say refreshing the scarlet thread brand. And I can use my own as an example. Like I said, when it was first developed, and when we did a lot, bold, bold color was in. And then we've gotten to a place where everything, even in logos, everything is white, gray, beige, very, very, very understated. And one of the things that I think that I had started to do on my own, and then you just really exploded more for me was adding in some other fonts, some more updated fonts. And we're talking about more in my customer facing documentation and things like that. But updating that, and then adding in some of those softer tones of color, some of the neutrals to balance the heavy color. And it changes over the years. And I think that's important as well, even though my scarlet thread consulting logos not changing, it's some of the work around it, the fonts around it, like I'm not tied to the same time. And that I'll say this, I kind of thought that after I went through my first branding exercise, and we chose all my fonts, I don't remember when you and I did that that was gosh, years ago, in scarlet thread world, I almost felt like well, I'm stuck with those fonts forever. And that's not the case, right? I might be stuck with the font and the logo. But that doesn't mean that I've got to use only that font for every single thing that I do going forward in the rest of my website and correspondence or anything else. And so you just kind of giving me permission to go, let's update some of these fonts, let's, let's change the way that we are showing things. Let's add some softness of color here. And let's balance kind of that those demanding red and purple are demanding, let's just be honest, they are demanding. But let's balance that with something that's softer and smoother so that I can rest as it works through so that we can kind of guide the reader the way we want to do that. And I think sometimes some of us can, well, I cannot I'll just speak for me anyway, your rule follower. And so when I am told that I'm supposed to use Leto, I'm thinking move away, I can only use later when right there could easily be another font added in with it that could be beautiful, and actually make the Leto show up so much better than if I only used one font.
Jill Palleschi 28:17
Absolutely, yeah, if you don't, especially when we're talking about the projects that we just completed for you. And actually, I just worked with another client who is in a very similar situation, your brand color palette and your fonts is meant to be the primary and it's meant to be the introduction. But when you're talking about large pieces of content marketing, collateral that is 10 plus pages long, you also have to remember that there's a human behind it. And that using bold color palettes on every page is exhausting to the eye. And so making your brand continuity through the entire document is done in accents. Your reader is happier. They're not exhausted when they get to the end of your document. And you feel like it's a more, it's a softer, more sophisticated approach to deliverables that they're looking at on a regular basis.
Michele 29:13
And let's be honest, it's easier on a printer to write, I'm serious, that's something that I think about my colors are so saturated and so dark and so heavy, which again, I love my colors, but I know what they do to a printer when you're printing anything in color. It can be heavy a lot. So how often do you? Well, let me back up before I ask how often, you know, one of the things that I have seen and experienced and that really draws me to continue working with you, Gil is that you have a different approach to this. There are quite a few branding companies out there that don't necessarily offer brand refreshes. And so if you go to work with them, you literally have to be willing to throw everything that you have a way, because they want to start over. It's almost like the idea of I'm not willing to help you design in a room where you want to keep a few pieces. I have to start with a clean room. Yeah, it's the equivalent of that. And I get that in some cases, like, if everything needs to be trashed, it needs to be trashed. But you never pushed me to throw my scarlet thread. You asked me? Are you happy with it? Does it still represent you? So you gave me space to have that as an opening? But when I said to you, I still love my logo, I still love it. I can't even imagine another logo for me. But I'm totally open to changing any and everything else around it. I'm not tied to any of the rest of it is on the table. Right? You were willing to step into that part of the branding process and say, Okay, we're going to keep these pieces. But now how can we elevate and how can we accentuate and how can we utilize this and keep moving? And I do trust that if it had been a horrible, horrible mistake, you would have told me and even on Metrique, when we started that conversation, I did have some parameters, because of the way that we were having to trademark some things. But I still told you I said, I don't want to tie your hands on this, I want to tell you the parameters that I'm going to have to work in that I need you to work within. But I want you to have the freedom to explore. Do you see people that come to you that say when I call some of the other branding teams, the only way they'll work with me is if I throw everything away? And some of it may have been custom branding that they had already invested in and still loved?
Jill Palleschi 31:41
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and I think that is the product of the way certain branding companies work. I think that for some businesses, that is probably the right decision. But there are a lot of reasons that someone might not be okay with that, you know, there could be parts of their brand that there are incredibly emotional to them that they I think I use this example when I spoke with Kate last year. But if your grandmother taught you to sew on a vintage sewing machine, and you have a vintage sewing machine in your logo, and that is really important to you, I fully respect that that is part of your brand story. It's part of your journey. It's part of your why and how you started your business. And I think it's really important to honor the customer's requests, when they feel really passionately about keeping something. I saw a wonderful example last night on Instagram from another designer who did a brand refresh. And I saved it. And I would actually love to reshare it because I think she did such a great job of honoring the original logo, but people get tied to their branding and their logos. And if you're ready for a refresh, or something a little different and more polished, sophisticated. And you just happen to love this one aspect we can work with that. There's no reason to say now everything is open and the conversation. And I want to hear your why. Because if you feel that strongly about keeping something, it's really part of the heart of your brand, and should continue in the next phase. I love
Michele 33:18
that and there is a time to throw everything out and start over there absolutely is a time for that. I just know that. And I've been there Right? Well, like I said designs, bombshell didn't make it through the full cut. Everything that had been designed for that got trashed, and there was an entire process where we started over. But going forward, it has been more tweaks to that. And they started over fresh with Metrique even as far as I asked you not to carry the colors over the exact colors, I might start with a clean fresh color palette just to have something that was completely different. So it when you refresh your brand, do you, I'll tell you what I've seen. And I know if I've seen it. And it's not even my area of expertise, you've probably seen it. But I think sometimes it's kind of like the equivalent of as a, as a homeowner will say, going into the model home and a subdivision. And taking pictures of every window treatment and all of the designs and thinking that's what they want to duplicate or going out to Pinterest and going I need to duplicate that. Because that's what's working right now or the front of some well known home magazines and going I just want to do that, for lack of that creativity on their own right. And they see it and they like it and I think let's just do that. I think the same thing can happen when people are going into their branding, because I went through a phase where every logo I saw looked. I don't want to call out what it looked like because there might be a lot of listeners who have that logo, but they all looked very similar maybe for a season they very architectural, or they looked very monogram ish, or they look it, we can go through seasons of all of it. Yeah. And I think that what's most important when you choose a branding specialist, you or others is that they're not just tied to the trend of the day, I think you have to be aware of what's trending, you have to be aware of how people are engaging with brands. But Home Depot doesn't go out and change their logo every year, because there's a new color palette, and they're not changing it every year, because people right now are mid century, and they're going back to New traditional, or whatever they have what they have. Do you see that though, when people come to you and everything, just some sort of like a cut, copy and paste,
Jill Palleschi 35:46
you know, I thought more several years ago, I feel like there's a new shift and people who at least come to me. And I'm not saying that specifically about my business, but I see it bigger than that, that we and I think it's more than branding to we went all went through this stage over the last four or five years, where the design of homes and the type of clothing and things were very trendy for a while. But I think people are moving away from that and understanding that, especially when it comes to a brand. And hopefully when it comes to yourself and your home and other things that being the Pinterest image or copying a Pinterest image isn't the goal that representing you, who you are we your businesses. And the longevity of that is really more important than the current trends. I did see it a few years ago. But I have to say I've been really lucky in the last year or two that everyone who's come has never picked a trend said they were loved to trend shared another logo that was trendy, I try and ask people not to share logos with me that they really love unless there's something that they can't articulate verbally, that they can find an image of, because I think that it ruins the process slightly. I like to start everything with a fresh set of eyes. And everything
Michele 37:08
we see, doesn't it? It does.
Jill Palleschi 37:11
Yeah. And I think it's part of the creative challenge of being a brand designer too is that part of our exercise is a Pinterest exercise where I asked you to pin images on edited of all the things that represent your brand. And so for example, if I'm speaking to an interior designer, that could be interiors, but it should also be a food and outfits and jewelry patterns, anything that you truly believe you would find in your customers home in their closet, other stores that they shop out and things like that, but no logos. And then I edit that down. That's part of my design process to really find the theme, the overall colors, the direction that your brand will move in. And I really have been amazed with what people have shared with me over the last couple of years in terms of that exercise, because it's not all trendy. And that's really refreshing to see. So it's
Michele 38:09
funny that you say that. So yesterday I was talking to one of the designers that I coach, and we were talking about the fact that I think some of our trendy stuff is getting ready to get a big shot in the arm. Because we can't get anything fast and quick anymore. Everything's seriously on a slow boat. And so yeah, stick it out in the ocean somewhere. And so we are starting to see a lot more recycling upcycling, a lot more thrift and vintage. I mean, we're seeing it pop up everywhere. You know what's old is new again, had you just look at the Super Bowl halftime show. Yeah. What's old is new again. All these people are acting like it was more like a girl. That was that was my young years. Right. But you were seeing it and she was even making the comment that they were doing some antiquing recently on a trip she and her husband were and they were looking at some pieces of silver. And that there were some young people in there looking at the same types of pieces of silver. And they were silver collecting in their late 20s. I just saw an article the other day that said, Fine. China's making a comeback. My son got married last year, there was no fine china. On the left. They're like we don't do them. Well, they didn't do it because they were getting family China from the right side of the family. But a lot of these young people, I don't need China, I don't need all that stuff. We know we went through all those years of everybody throwing all that stuff away. I was wandering around the thrift stores with my husband, I'm like had that had that and 70s and 80s. I wish we kept all that right. And I say that only because I think that people are going back and looking at the sustainability of some of the things we had. They're looking across timelines. They're looking what It was important in the 20s, and the 30s, not just what's new. And there's this blend more blended approach to all of it, that we're seeing, even in our consumption. And if once we start seeing it in our consumption, then it does play over into the other aspects of life and business. And so it's just that you're able to see that.
Jill Palleschi 40:19
Yeah, definitely. And I love that that is making a comeback. I have always been really into mixing styles and, you know, our furniture, can we have dressers that are 100 years old for my husband's family. And then we have brand new pieces, and 50% of the artwork in our home is was found in an attic that we restored and framed. And it's really it all comes down to part of the story. You know, I love that those things tell a story. And whether your brand is completely brand new, or there's pieces from your business that you've built over the last 20 years. That's part of the story too. And I like that, you know, I like when people come sharing that aspect of their business because there's something there, and maybe you're ready for something that looks a little bit different, but the heart of your brand. And what's important is still the same as it was 10 or 15 years ago.
Michele 41:17
See that just goes right back to the very beginning where I said, you're able to jump into the middle of their story. You do so well. So Alright, so let's say that we go through this process, what happens when the branding process is over. So for most clients,
Jill Palleschi 41:33
I will package up their final brand assets depending on what they've asked for. And that is everything from your primary logo and a brand style guide all the way down to social media templates, business cards, you know, really whatever it is that you asked for. And then after brandings over, usually clients moving on to updating their website. So there's a large period of time where I'm not needed, and I pass them off to somebody else to update that part of their brand. But I do also offer clients design days, which are a bulk of time, a half or full day at a discounted hourly rate, where we can revisit their brand at any time it can be used for marketing, collateral, social media templates, it can be used for tissue, paper creation, custom stamps, I just created a 20 page pricing guide for a previous client, that time and those hours are dedicated to whatever you need in your business at that moment. With a super quick turnaround time, I have learned that I work better when I work on one project at a time and that clients can always wait the average lead time for me to start working on their project. So we pick a day that is mutually agreed upon by both of us. And we get all those projects done by the end of the day, in the worst case scenario sometimes the next morning, but you walk away with everything you need updated. And it is a really quick and efficient process. So that is I have customers who come back multiple times, you know, 610 design days. And that's really where the continuity of the relationship with your brand designer goes from there. I always am working with other clients. But there are usually two to three days a month I reserved specifically for things like that. I have
Michele 43:28
taken part and few of those days and always have a few more on the list coming. But I want to just speak to the process of that. Number one, of course, you know, Love Your Work robot and keep coming back. But I love the process of those days. One thing that it requires my team and I to do on our side, is to pull everything together at once into set priority. But I know when I first started these design days with you, I looked at it and I had so much more than I could have, then either of us could have even handled in a day right even having a conversation about. But what was also interesting to me is by doing them and revisiting things in big chunks of time, there is the continuity. And I always liked it because some of the things we worked together to create the priority, those actually drove the decisions that we would make for the next batch of things that we were running through so that we could kind of put like things together, we realize we've already made some of these, I would say bigger brand decisions or bigger visual decisions. Now this is what it would look like over here, or let me create this one, and then we can tweak it and we'll have three versions of the one. But I have really really enjoyed those days because then I feel like I'm really getting things done versus a trickle of one thing at a time. Because you can start to look like there are times right now that I can look at my website and I can tell where I've updated it in different chunks. So that's why sometimes it's nice to just kind of do a clean sweep and clean every thing up. Right, I mean, I'm just being transparent, like I get stuck in the same thing everybody else does. But it has been awesome. Because that day, you'll take a few hours. And then we're just back and forth, back and forth, getting it nailed down. And at the end of the day, you've got your PDFs, or you've got your downloads or whatever it is that you need, and you can move on and start using them immediately. So that instant gratification is fun. But it requires me to be processed, driven beforehand. And that's a good thing.
Jill Palleschi 45:30
Absolutely, the process that I go through on my end, and ask that you go through on your end is, it's one of those things where we always say it's hard to, you know, we have hundreds of clients, but it's really hard to work on your own business. And when there's a date and a deadline, you're more driven, to get organized and get it done. And I also have found that similar to the way I work, customers really appreciate the quick decision making. Because if we weren't working in this design day, and I sent you something for approval, you may look at it, and then we'll make dinner. And then by the time you get back to it, it's two days later. And it's not an efficient process for anyone you look at it, you get back to me right away. It doesn't require that you have to be at your computer all day. But it's just a back and forth, ongoing conversation about proofs and approvals. And giving people a shorter window to review and give comments helps the decision making process. Otherwise, you can make decisions for months.
Michele 46:32
Well, and again, I like the idea that we're looking at multiple, at least in my experience, we looked at multiple pieces of collateral at one time. And looking at all of them the same way that you said, you you like to get into the story to create the initial brand, it allows you to get into story of all the different pieces of documentation that we have, so that we didn't make some decision on one piece of documentation. Without considering could we carry that through to other pieces, you know, and kind of having to go back and revisit it. So that has been really great. So is that the type of service that you would also have available? If somebody says, You know what, I've got my brand, my brand has been refreshed, I'm good with that piece. But I need other things. Tell us about the services that you would offer for those individuals or businesses?
Jill Palleschi 47:18
Absolutely. I mean, yes, I've worked with a handful of people who I was not their brand designer, and I'm happy to help them execute the next pieces. There are several brand designers who don't offer those continuation services and, and that's okay for them and their business. But you may need other things and a month or five months or two years after your brand was created. And I'm happy to help. I do like to make sure that there is a brand before we get into those design days, seeing a brand style guide with fonts and colors and the hex codes is really helpful in creating that additional collateral for people. But as long as that exists in some capacity, I'm happy to really help anyone create what they need with their brand at the forefront.
Michele 48:06
That's awesome. Gil, is there anything else that you can think of that you want to share with our listeners today?
Jill Palleschi 48:14
I don't think so this was such a fun conversation about branding. I love the opportunity to talk about it. Obviously, I talked to my customers about their branding, but talking about it more conceptually and diving into why it's important and why I love it. It's always fun.
Michele 48:29
I asked one question that before we end and that was the podcast, of course is profit is a choice. And I do think that having a beautiful and beautiful, of course is everybody's idea of beautiful, right. So it's not just one version of that. But having a beautiful, well thought out brand that you are proud of. It absolutely does increase the profitability. In my opinion, it increases the profitability of the sale of your confidence level, like my client who didn't want to put it out on her door didn't want to go to marketing events. There's a pride that comes with looking at that visual interpretation of your business and wanting to advance that business and that offering in that service, it just changes. It's like putting on that really great outfit. You want to go out you hold your head up a little bit differently than when you feel like you're kind of in your comfy slouchy clothes, and maybe I should have dressed a little bit better. And I think when your logo when your branding feels like company slouchy clothes and you are going to cocktail hour then it might be time to think about that. But can you could you think of any other quick ways that we could define just how having a really great brand and a consistent brand can improve the profitability in your business?
Jill Palleschi 49:48
In addition to what you said, I mean, I think it's a self awareness and a confidence boost to have something you're really proud of, but as a incredibly visual person, I can see it from a customer standpoint as well, that I make a lot of decisions about who I work with, not in my business, but who we work with in our home renovations and businesses, I interact and shop with and town, that if you have a brand and a website that feels really polished and professional, and there's, it sounds so simple, but like an easy way to contact you and ask questions, that is part of the experience that makes me want to spend money with you. And I think that's a perspective to have when you're going through the brand process is remembering that, aside from being proud that your customers are incredibly visual people as well and driven by aesthetics, and that upgrading and refreshing and having something that feels really you and really professional, will eventually turn into a better profit for your business.
Michele 50:59
I love it. So true. So Jill, tell people where you're hanging out in social media on your website, where's the best place for them to find out more about you?
Jill Palleschi 51:08
Sure. My website is joola paper cow. And that's ju la Paper Co joola is named after my children, which is a fun story to read on my website if you head over there. And my social media handles are the same at doula paper.
Michele 51:25
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing with my listeners today. Thank you so much for helping me with my own branding and collateral. And I can't wait for us to celebrate when retreat gets out. It may already be out when this comes out. We'll see this close. All right. Thanks, Jill.
Jill Palleschi 51:44
Thanks for having me, Michele.
Michele 51:46
It's been so great personally to work with Joe over the years, feel free to check out the look of Metrique solutions at WWW dot Metrique solutions.com. To see the color palette and the logo design. You can also sign up for the newsletter and upcoming information on the launch of this financially robust software application that will allow you to take control of your financials so excited. And if you're a successful design business and you're looking for a business coach to help you create a more sustainable and scalable firm, I would love for you to apply for a discovery call at scarlet thread consulting comm create a brand that you're proud of and that represents your work. It really does lead to profits and that's not by accident. Gotham is a choice is proud to be part of the design network.org where you can discover more design media reaching creative listeners. Thanks for listening, and stay creative and business minded.