220: Selling Authentically in Your Design Business

Michele  00:00

Hello, my name is Michele, and you're listening to Profit is a Choice. Joining me on the podcast today is Nikki Rausch. She is a sales coach and trainer and author and a speaker. And she talks about authentically moving people through a sales process. I'm so excited to have her on. She has her own podcast, The Sales Maven. So make sure you check that out and welcome to the podcast.

Michele  00:29

Every day, empowered entrepreneurs are taking ownership of their company financial health, and enjoying the rewards of reduce stress and more creativity. With my background as a financial software developer, owner of multiple businesses in the interior design, industry, educator and speaker, I coach women in the interior design industry to increase their profits, regain ownership of their bottom line, and to have fun again in their business. Welcome to Profit is a Choice.

Michele  01:06

Hey, Nikki, welcome to the podcast.

Nikki Rausch  01:08

Thank you. I'm happy to be here.

Michele  01:10

I am excited to have you. You were so delightful and had me on your podcast. Tell the listeners a little bit about your podcast.

Nikki Rausch  01:19

So my podcast is called The Sales Maven and the episode that you came on, I do a series on there. The podcast is really sales focused. And I do some on air coaching calls. And I do some solo episodes where I teach concepts and but the episode that you came on is my mastering excellent series where I where I get to do a deep dive and to somebody's unconscious competence. And so you were so gracious to come on and share and let me kind of, you know, I don't love this term. But now I'm trying to think of like a nicer way to say it, because I don't love the term pick your brain. But it's like we got to, we got to like peek behind the curtain of how and how you function. Yeah. And really you shared it was so brilliant, such great feedback. So you can anybody who wants to find it, just go search Michele's name with Sales Maven attached to it, and the podcast will come up for you. It was so good.

Michele  02:16

Awesome. Thank you. And we'll put that in the show notes for anybody that wants to check in. But now it's my opportunity to kind of turn the tables and talk to you and ask you some questions. And your superpower is sales, right? I mean, Sales Maven, you've got sales, coaching courses, all types of sales. I have had multiple people on the podcast who talk sales and I'm gonna be honest, sometimes in that whole sales category, it can be it can feel schmooze and sleazy and you know, I mean, yeah, right. Yeah, I know, even even for myself, I'm constantly trying to figure out how do I sell without being salesy? And I think that's the conversation I hear we wanted, I guess what we're saying is we want to just be really authentic, relationship oriented. And the truth of the matter is, I mean, I love the book, Book Yourself Solid. The truth of the matter is, we're not trying to force anybody to work with us, regardless of what we're selling, right? The goal in sales is, is I'll give my definition, I'd love to hear yours. But I think the goal of sales is to match a need with an offer. And so if they have the need, we either have to, they either have to know they have the need, or we have to show them they have the need. And then if we have the solution, we offer it. So we're actually offering the solution, if they don't need it, or we don't have the solution. It's not best that we work together. And so we're not trying to force something that shouldn't fit. We're trying to actually make things better. Yeah, if we do it the right way. What What are your thoughts on that?

Nikki Rausch  03:52

I think one of the misconceptions that people have about sales is that it's your job to convince somebody to buy from you. I don't subscribe to that belief at all. I don't think your job is to convince anybody. And frankly, in our society today, you know, we all have our opinions. And we don't really want people trying to change our minds and convince us of things. And and so when I think about sales, I think people often think, oh, sales is something that you do to somebody, but that feels gross to somebody. So I say sales is actually something you do with people. It's a collaborative experience, like what you just described, does this person have a need? And if they have a need, Do I have permission to put a matching offer in front of them so that they can make a decision as the adult that they are, whether or not it's the right next step for them. That's what sales is, and there's things that you do along the way. You're building rapport, you're focused on relationship you're focused on and like asking really smart questions, and all of those things, leads this process. us to the place where we can put an offer in front of somebody who has a need, they can make a decision, most of the time, the decision is going to be to hire you, because you're the right fit, you've got the right solution for them. And then we're off to the races now, now, it's about delivering on your expertise. And that's the best part of most of our jobs right is getting to really shine in that place of like what you feel called to do.

Michele  05:24

When I first started my own business, and I've been in business for myself since 2000. But I remember there was a time where I felt I needed to, I'm going to put in air quotes here sell myself, right, I needed to do something to somebody like it was just what we had been taught. Yeah, in our in sales courses. And so it put such a pressure on trying to prove something that then it felt it, it just did not feel right. And then I remember when my world shifted, and I realized I'm actually not personally pushing myself, what I'm doing is providing a solution. And so then, of love how you said sales is collaborative, I believe that it's both of us. Like even when I do discovery calls for people that are talking to me about my program, I'm like, This truly is a discovery. It's a discovering what your need is discovering what I do and how I do it and discovering if we're a fit. And so this is not an I say it's not a what we would consider a sales call, I'm not necessarily trying to sell you, I'm trying to uncover your need, and your desires, and then I'm trying to uncover what I have to offer. So when I learned the difference, that I'm solution, providing and not self promoting the stress that came off my shoulders the relief, because now I am not. I mean, I'm always looking to see if we're fit, right, yeah, that sales perspective. But it freed me up to get to know the people and to really hear them and to say, that's not what I do, or I am not the right fit for that. Whereas the other mindset or or framework was i You just have to go sell it, sell it, sell it, and then you'll work out the rest of it on the back end. Yeah. So Nikki, I come from a software background, my first okay. And I can remember working in the customer service development, testing so that when they would call the helpline because they had a problem with their software, they started me there. And I can remember people clients calling me large clients, because we weren't IBM mainframe accounting like huge clients. And they would say, well, the salesperson said that your program did this. And I'm like, our application doesn't do that. So I know how it felt to be on the side of a promise that couldn't be fulfilled, and then scrambling to try to fulfill a promise because somebody was more about the sale than about does this is this really a great fit. So just the fact that you even mentioned is the collaboration and the relationship is so important, you have a process for that. So talk a little bit about your, your selling staircase and the process that you have for that, I'd love to hear how you write.

Nikki Rausch  08:11

So thank you. So the selling staircase is my signature framework for a sales conversation. So I call it the selling staircase up because I break it into five steps. And the idea behind the staircase is that when you think about standing in front of a staircase, you're you very few people would stand in front of a staircase and go like, well, I'm standing here, you know, at the, at the bottom of the stairs, and I'm just gonna hop all the way up to the fifth step. And I'm just gonna skip all the steps in between. And, you know, most of us wouldn't even attempt that because they'd be like, Well, that sounds painful. Like what if I miss and I bang my shins or, you know, like, it doesn't sound very safe. So the idea behind the selling staircase is that your job as the seller is to guide people from one step to the next. You don't get to skip steps in the selling process. When you are the seller. The client can skip steps. If they show up on step three, we don't gotta like say Slow your roll, I gotta take you back to step one. Like, that's not the idea behind it. So the staircase is this progression. So I like the idea of giving people a progression. And when you know what step you're on, you're not freaking out and stressing out about like, oh my gosh, I gotta get to step seven, or there's no step seven. But step five, in this case, yeah, you're just saying, Okay, so we're on step two, and I just got to get us to step three. That's your, that's your goal. So the five steps break down. Step one is introduction. So the idea behind introduction is to make a powerful first impression that happens online that happens to your website that happens when you're meeting people for the first time somebody's being introduced to you. So what are you doing to make a powerful first impression, and then I can go as deep into all these steps as you want, but I'm just gonna go through real quick but So step two, is create curiosity. This, by the way, is the most misstep because most people don't think about do I know how to create curiosity when I'm talking about my business. And if you don't know how to create curiosity, you'll miss having conversations with ideal clients because they don't know what you know, they don't know what to ask you. They don't know what's possible for them. So your job is to create a little curiosity. And when you start to create curiosity, what happens is people start to ask questions, they lean in, they want more information. And those are what happens when, when that when they're doing that is those I call those buying signals. So when you get a buying signal, then you know, it's time to invite somebody to step three. Step three is discovery. That is that call like what you explained, it's not necessarily even a sales call, it's finding out what's the problem? What's the need? What's the want, asking smart questions that lead the person to start to self identify if like, oh, my gosh, Michele has something that I really need. So I'm in here, like, I'm gonna want to know more. And also for you to identify, are you talking to somebody who's the right fit for your business? In that discovery? I always say, if they're not a right fit, then your job is to bless and release them. That's exactly right. Yeah, you don't have to, like, force it, right. But if it if they are a great fit, and we're gonna invite them to step four, and that's the proposal, that's where you're laying out ways to work with you. That's where you're standing in your place of expertise. And you're making recommendations, you're not coaching, you're not giving stuff away, you're just telling them how they can get what it is that's going to meet their need and solve their problem. And then step five, goes really closely with step four. And that's the clothes. And what I mean by clothes, is you have to actually issue clothes language. Step five is the second most messed up in the selling staircase, because I find that a lot of times, sellers will get to step four, and then they'll hang out. And because the client or prospect doesn't know what to do, they'll also hang out. And this is where people get into this mode of like, so I send proposals and then people ghost me, or they didn't really make a decision. So now I'm not sure should I call them today? Or should I wait? Well, chances are you never issued close language. And because you didn't issue close language, they probably didn't know that it was time to make a decision. So you've got to issue close language. Now it doesn't mean that they will necessarily make a decision. But when you issue close language and close language, by the way of saying something as simple as you know, after talking through these options, which do you prefer? That's close language, super simple. All of us can say that, right? That's not a scary thing to have to say to somebody. And then they can decide, they can say, Yes, I want to hire you and say which option they prefer, they can decline, they can ask a follow up question, they might raise an objection. Or they might say I need to think about it. And the reason I teach this five step process is because every step of the way, you all know what to do or say next. So you don't have to fear the conversation. You don't have to hold yourself back. And you also don't have to be aggressive. Either you it's just a conversation. It's a back and forth exchange. We're talking with people not at them. And we're letting them know what to do next, based on the questions that we're asking.

Michele  13:23

So, you know, in design and window treatments, and whatever it is that we do as business owners, we have a process where we lead our clients from the beginning of the engagement to the end, right? Yes, outside of the sales process. But once they are our client, for those of us, especially those that are trying to scale to have a repeatable business that, you know, serves our clients the same way or better, or produces a consistent outcome. We have a process. That's one of the first things every client has ever asked me is. Okay, so now that we're working together, what's your process? What comes next? Where do we go? I think part of you made the comment about not offering the closing a good closing phrase or words that lead them. It's almost like saying not even telling them that there's the fifth step, not even telling them that there is one more step like we walked up for with me, I want you know, the staircase ends at five, like we're almost there. Yeah, if they won't know that. And if you think about it in terms of design, that'd be like saying, you never tell them that there's an install date. You never go, here's the end, right? You're just always in this process of not knowing where you are. And so I love the idea of a process with the beginning and an end because it actually gives us It allows us to relax in that. And like I said earlier, not talking at selling too, but more collaborative. Is this good for you and me. The majority of my coaching packages are a year in duration. So I can promise you, I do not want to get engaged in a relationship with somebody for a year, where neither of us are meant to work together, or our values don't align, or their need doesn't align with what I have to offer, you know, I do not want to spend a year and I don't want them to spend a year with me that every time I'm asking them for something, or helping them with something, they don't want to be there. And so, you know, working through our own process, I love that we have one here because it provides safety. Okay, so I'm gonna just dive right in here. I think I really want to ask about this create curiosity, because you said it is the most skipped step. Yes. And so can you go a little deeper there and help us understand what does it mean to create curiosity? How can we create that? Because I'll be honest, but just the idea of sales makes it including me, sometimes. It makes me nervous because of the old ideas, and even creating curiosity. Some people think, oh, my gosh, now I have to go brag on myself. That's not what it means that Oh, no, not at all. But yeah, that was what what does it mean to create curiosity? What are some ways we can do that?

Nikki Rausch  16:12

Okay, so hang in with me for just a minute, because all of a sudden, you might think, oh my gosh, who is this crazy lady that I brought on to the podcast. But when I think about creating curiosity, I often compare it to it's the difference between how you how you call a dog versus how you call a cat. So I don't know this about you, Michele, I don't know if you're a pet lover if you're a dog lover, or a cat lover, so I'm going to ask you now, are you are you either?

Michele  16:36

I love my dogs. Okay. I do not have cats. Okay? And I'm not really a fan of cats, like, round it can it can be in the room with me. I just prefer it not to rub up against me and get me.

Nikki Rausch  16:50

Yeah, perfect. A dog that dog all day. Okay? So a lot of times when you want to get your dog's attention, right, you do this thing where you're like, come here baby or come her boy or come here girl, right? That gets a little bit of a high pitch. Like, it's a lot of energy. It's like, oh, and dogs really respond to that energy. Because they're like, oh, mom's in the room, we're kind of do something fun, like, oh my gosh, I'm so excited, we're gonna go for a walk, I'm gonna get a treat, whatever. When you show up in your conversations, and this happens, a lot of times when people are newer in their business, is they're just so excited to be of service. And they're just so excited to share and educate people that they come off with what I call dog calling energy. And as humans, we don't respond in the same way that dogs do. We'd you did it exactly. You kind of push back a little bit. You're like, oh, too much too. You know, it's like, Ah, I feel a little nervous. So the flip side of it is if you think about how you call a cat, if you want to call a cat, they're never going to respond to like, come here, come here, right? You do this little thing where you go, Here, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty. Now cats don't even always come to that. They might give you a look. They might go What? What are you doing? Yeah, right. And it's more like, if you want me you got to come to me most of the time. So with this idea of creating curiosity, I think I always encourage people to come up with what I call Here, kitty kitty statements.

Michele  18:21

This just makes me smile and laugh. And so to me, they just bring me joy. Like, what are your Here kitty kitty statements? Like, that's fine. So okay, let's, let's have this here.

Nikki Rausch  18:31

Okay, so it's often the way that you either ask a question or answer a question. So I usually give people like the simplest question that most of us are really adept at, like, we already know how to answer this question, because we get asked it all the time, is how are you? Right? Like, you know how to answer that question. And maybe some of us have, like, kind of a standard response. We might say, like, Oh, I'm good, how are you? But the thing about that is it doesn't create any curiosity, it doesn't lend itself to open the door to have real business conversations. So how you answer questions, allows you to create some curiosity because it allows the other person to go What does that mean? Tell me more about that. So just even a simple example, if somebody said to me right now, Nikki, how are you? I might say, Oh, I'm so great. I just launched my MasterPass today. Now, that may or may not create curiosity, and may have somebody go like, what does that mean? What's a MasterPass? Now it gives gives me a little bit of permission to tell them a little bit about something about my business. Or I could say, Oh, I'm so excited. My podcast just reached a new level. And they go like, Oh, you have a podcast? What's your podcast about right then I have permission to talk a little bit about my podcast. So think about the way you're answering questions, whether it's online, whether it's in person and definitely works in person. You know, if if somebody says like, you know, what's new with you, and you say A nothing, that's not going to create any curiosity. But if you say, Oh, I'm just about to do something interesting in my business, people are gonna go, what's your business? Tell me more? What does that mean? They'll lean in, you've created that Here, kitty, kitty, they'll ask you a follow up question. So a couple little rules of thumb around creating curiosity, your answer should only be up to three sentences at the most. If you have an answer to whatever the question is that somebody asked you, that is more than three sentences, you are now in dog calling energy, that becomes a little bit of a word vomit. So you want to hold yourself back, I try to create my curiosity in a sentence or two. And I do this all the time. It's, it's, I really walk my talk. So I don't expect my clients to do things that I don't do. So a lot of times, I'll just come up with like, what's my answer for the week? And I'll just say it to anybody who asked me like, How are you, Nikki? And I'll just have my, and I don't even care if it's Starbucks, and I'm standing in line to order a tea or whatever, right? Doesn't matter. I one time did it. Unintentionally, really, it was I was getting my teeth clean. And my hygienist asked me like, you know, what's new with you? And I said, Oh, I just launched my newsletter this week. This was a few years back. And she had her hands in my mouth. And she was like, tell me more about this newsletter, and then we start talking. Right? So you never know who's a potential client for you. You never know if because they don't know necessarily what you do or who you are. And if you're willing to create curiosity, what can happen a lot of times my clients report this back to me all the time. They're like, Oh, I just dropped this curiosity, my little Here, kitty kitty statement. And this person was like, You know what? My brother works at such and such company, and they are looking for somebody that does what you do, right? Or they'll say, Gosh, I never even thought that there was people out there that did that. That's so interesting. I wonder if I could benefit from that. Now that's a buying signal, right? So you get to act on it, then you get to invite them to the next step with you. So you got to create curiosity. And you can do it online, too. You can do it just even by here's a simple way online, is you can ask a question. Instead of making statements which most of us do online, we make a lot of statements, we put things out like, oh, exciting news, this just happened, blah, blah, blah. But you could also just create a little curiosity by asking somebody like, what's the most exciting thing going on for you this week? And then, after you ask that question, right below it, you can answer what the most exciting thing for you is going on this week? Because people will slow down to think, what's my answer to that question? Well, what's Michele's answer? Now your reading your answer.

Michele  22:53

Makes me think about when we do interviews, like an interview for a new position. One of the big rules is you don't want to ask yes, no questions, because it shuts down conversation. Yes, you want to ask more open ended questions that allow people to think so think about the way that we do this in an interview for a job. That's really what we're doing here. We're just changing the questions and picking it and moving it over into the sales process, right? We used to always talk about this when we would go to networking events pre COVID When there was a networking event every other night. You don't when people say what do you do? You don't say I design? You know, right? You say something along the lines of? Oh, wow, you know, what I do I create spaces for you to watch movies on the big screen with no lair? Oh, how do you do that? Oh, well, here's the window treatment thing that you know, you're you're saying something that is encouraging them to communicate and to continue the conversation. And so you're these are here, kitty kitty type statements, right? That you're bringing in a lot that I'm gonna, I'm gonna laugh about that one. I'm going to start thinking about, you know, what I love too is I love the idea of maybe for the week thinking about what what could I celebrate this week? How am I doing this week? And, you know, I think delivery is important, because if we also deliver it in a way that feels salesy, you could deliver a kitty kitty statement that feels like a dog statement. Yes. Right. So I think stick with the kitty kitty vibe, if we're going to do that. Otherwise, it feels leading and you don't want it to feel leading you want it to feel opened in and relationship building.

Nikki Rausch  24:30

Yeah, a counter example is I remember being at a networking meeting, and this woman thought her way of creating curiosity was to try to trick people. And it fell really flat. Right? And her thing was like you'd asked her so, you know, tell me a little bit about your business. And she's like, well, I could tell you but I would like for you to guess you know what it was like? No, not interested. Like that doesn't right feels like are you trying to trick me or like what But where are we going? Right? It's conversation, right? So you do want to give an answer. And that will spur some conversation. That's the whole idea behind the technique. If it causes people to feel, ah, or I don't, this feels weird or uncomfortable or awkward. You've missed the mark, you've certainly missed the mark. And and when you do miss the mark, which sometimes we do, right, that's okay. You just change it up. You You know, if you have you're here kitty kitty response to questions. And people don't, you know, pick up on them, and they don't ask a follow up question. Then you just go on with the conversation. And maybe you can bring a Here kitty kitty in later in the conversation. But you don't say like, Hey, wait a minute, I just tried to create curiosity. You were supposed to ask me this, right? Yeah. So it's, this is also why I get a little bit nervous when people try to tell people, you gotta follow this exact script. Because if you sound like a robot, that's not a real conversation, right? So you want it to be something that feels natural, something that you're a little bit excited about, or something that's true. You can also do this on your calls with existing clients. You know, if your existing client, you know, you get on a call with them, and you say, you know, I've been thinking about you since our last conversation. And I have, I have a couple ideas. I don't know what to be open to hearing those. That's a little bit of a Here kitty, kitty. Because if you say that to me, you better believe I'm gonna be like, you're thinking about me. I'd like to know more. Yeah, right

Michele  26:36

Well, and I know, you know, sometimes, I guess I've never really thought about it is that type of statement. But when it is grounded in truth, right, like I really was thinking about you this week. Yes. And I really did have some ideas. I think people can tell that. Because I know even when I get discovery forums, and I have a very thorough form, I read that forum, I go look that person up. I mean, they've looked me up, they're given me information, I go look them up. And I can start to actually build excitement about what they're building, and about what they've created, before we ever have a conversation. And so sometimes I'm like, I'm so excited to talk to you. Like, I'm really excited, because I've done my I mean, I did that when I even spoke to you this morning, because that already talked to you. And I knew and I was excited that you were coming back on my calendar. But it does build this opening for relationship to occur. Because I'm already naturally thinking about them and feeling it. And so to say to them, I already see a couple of things, you know, as we move forward, that might be of assistance to you. I think I love the languaging is well Nikki that says, I'd like to offer you, instead of saying let me tell you, because the let me tell you comes across very demanding. And it just it gives off just the wrong vibe, right? Where I'd like to offer this to you if you're willing to take the offer. In other words, I'd like to offer you to move up to this next step, then they get the opportunity so that it stays collaborative, instead of one sided.

Nikki Rausch  28:10

Yeah. And I like to ask them as questions because then people are giving you permission. And then when you give somebody permission you expect they're gonna now deliver on what you just gave them permission. So when you say like, you know, I've been thinking about you and I have some ideas, would you be open to hearing those? They say yes, now they're prepared to hear him. But the person who shows up and like, you know, I've been thinking about you, I have some ideas. Let me tell you, all of my ideas. Now it feels like you're forcing something on them. That's right. Yeah, very different. It's a very different response from the other person. In the end, the goal here is always to put the other person at ease, to make it easy for them to be in conversation with you to make it easy for them to be open to hearing your message. And, frankly, to make it easy for them to be revealing about their thought process, their questions, their concerns.

Michele  29:03

And that the more transparency and the more relationship you build in the sales process that carries forward into the actual work with that particular person. Right. 100%. I know that sometimes during the discovery, we get very transparent. And so when that happens, I have the opportunity later to go back and even refer to Okay, remember in the discovery call, here were some pain points that came up. Is this a good time for us to start addressing those or to look at that. And so, I think when the sales process is done, the way that you describe doing it very collaborative, very even, I would say, right, not heavy handed on either side. Nobody has an upper hand. We're just, we're even that, that sets the tone for the rest of the relationship and when it's done well and done with that type of caring transparency, and honestly just an open That's to say, is this right for both of us to be on the same step at the same time. And then to close the deal? It just makes the whole delivery of whatever it is, you're selling so much easier.

Nikki Rausch  30:11

Yeah, and not even just for you, but for the client. Yeah, because they know because, you know, the worst thing. And I think a lot of times sales in a sales situation, if you're the seller, you don't think about the fact that this is a vulnerable spot for a client to be in or a prospect to be in because they're having to admit that they need support around something, they need somebody who has an expertise that they do not have, right, and so it can you your job is always also to be creating safety along the way. So that they feel like, okay, I'm safe with Michele, she, you know, she's got my best interests at heart and I can, I can be open with her I can be, you know, revealing with her, and all of these things, build these really strong relationships, and from building strong relationships in your business. And I suspect you probably have experienced this, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, but you start to create ambassadors in the marketplace for you too, because these people are like, you know, the only person I recommend for what it is that you need, I'm talking to another friend later on down the road is my as Michele, she is the go to person for this. And if you're going to talk to anybody, you should absolutely talk to her. We want ambassadors out in the marketplace, shouting from the rooftops how amazing it is to work with us how they recommend us, because you've done all that work through the sales process. And then through delivering on your expertise, whatever they hired you to do. Now, you've got ambassadors out there, that, frankly, will carry more weight than any marketing money you could ever spent on anything. Right? If somebody's saying word of mouth. Michele's your Michele is your go to person for this. That's right.

Michele  32:00

So let's talk about the second area that gets skipped a lot. And that is the close and I'm just going to be very honest, I can get caught up in that if I'm not paying attention. Because I've been so busy building the relationship that I then feel like, at times, oh, now I don't want to push them. You know what I mean? Like I'm gonna give them space. But there does need to be that invitation to close that closing language. I've worked with quite a few business owners who would say, I sent the proposal and nothing's happening versus here's the proposal. Let's walk through it. Do you have any questions now giving them an opportunity to have an action? What are you going to do with this information? So can you can you share just a little bit? I think I'd like to start with Nikki fits. Okay. Why do we sometimes lock up freeze that let's assume we know that we need to get to a close, right? Not that we didn't had no clue that we were supposed to close the deal? Because that's a whole nother conversation. Let's assume that we know that there should be closure to this at some point. But we are on that step for that proposal. We've told them. We've heard all their challenges. We've heard what they want or need in their life, their business, whatever it is we're serving. We have told them how we work and what we do. How do we move into that closing? How do we have that conversation? What signals us to say? And how do we have the courage? Like, why are my 5000 questions I just threw here. Let me back. Let me back it up. Why do you think we don't necessarily move to the close? What is the mindset that is stopping us? to actively just say, What do you want to do?

Nikki Rausch  33:45

I think it can be a few things. One of the ones that I think maybe isn't commented on very often is we make the assumption that they know what they're supposed to do next. So we don't need to do anything else. But that's actually a false assumption. Because you haven't completed the process. And you still need to guide them to that step. The other thing about this is we often don't think to make that close. It could be because we get nervous. Like that's a more obvious reason, I think

Michele  34:18

here and that kind of thing, where like,

Nikki Rausch  34:20

Oh, this is the part that feels like selling right. So then the you know, it's something you hold yourself back. But what we forget is that people have what's known as decision fatigue. We all have it in certain contexts of our lives. And I don't know Michele, have you ever hear have you heard the like, on average, how many decisions adults make a day do you have you heard this about this study that's out there.

Michele  34:44

I know that it is a huge amount, but I don't know that I know the number I remember seeing a study one time about how much information we take in in one day. It's like equivalent to an entire year or decade back in like the 1700s they just did not As the amount of information, I'm coming at them, do you have the numbers? Because that

Nikki Rausch  35:04

yeah, so they say the average adult makes a minimum of 30,000 decisions a day. I think as parents, you tell me because I'm not a parent, I know you are, I think parents make more. I've also seen another statistic where it says up to 60,000. So maybe that's where the parents are falling. But it's a lot of decisions. So our brains are tired. And frankly, our, our brains like are kinda lazy, our brains are going to do the least amount of effort and energy that we have to do. Because our brains are working so hard to do everything else, right, keep us alive, and the heartbeat and the all the things that go into that. And because because we have decision fatigue, oftentimes, we won't make decisions on things if it requires us to do too much work. So when you don't issue that close language that is involved with the proposal, if you say, I'm going to send you the proposal, why don't you take a look at it, and then let me know what questions you have. And then we can, you know, we can circle back later, you have essentially just said to this person, add me to your to do list. And when you add yourself to somebody's to do list, the chance of you ever making it to the top is slim to none. Because they have decision fatigue, because they have other things that will pop up that are calling for their attention right now in this moment. So you're never going to make it to the top of that list. But if you say to them, so let's let's, I'm going to send the proposal to you today. Let's schedule a circle that call to walk through the proposal. That way I can answer any additional questions that come to mind for you. And then we can talk about working together, like next steps. And then you say, you know, can we schedule the time on Thursday? At 10? You know, you don't just say I'll call you on Thursday? No, you get on their calendar, because most of us live and breathe our calendars. Exactly. So then when you get on that call on Thursday, you walk them through the proposal, and then you say, so now, after reviewing the proposal, are you ready to move forward with this? Now, you've put that decision, a very simple way for them to actually be able to make the decision for them to say, Yeah, I'm in, I'm so ready, or for them to again, voice an objection or have a question. And it's super important that you get to that point where you issue that close language. Because if you don't give them the opportunity to voice an objection, or ask that one lingering question, oftentimes you won't earn their business. I had a coach that used to always say to me, Nikki, most people are one decision or one question away from hiring you. That's what he would say. Most people are one question away from hiring you, you have to give them the opportunity to ask that question. And I love that the context of that. So I think it wraps really nicely around this idea of the clothes and why it's super important that you do it. Even if it makes you uncomfortable, even if you feel a little nervous. Even if you think it's obvious to the other person that that's what they're supposed to do now is make a decision, you ask the question, and then you wait, you zip it, and you let them say whatever they're gonna say next.

Michele  38:17

That's hard to do. I mean, that is a learned approach, right? We used to always say, Whoever speaks first loses. So after you make the offer, just be quiet. And for me, that was really hard, because I'm a talker, and I'm a verbal processor. You know, I'm not just talking to talk, but I verbally process things. My husband and I sometimes have to have conversation because he he processes mentally internally. And then he'll just give an answer. And I'm sitting here wondering, how did you get there? What What were you thinking, right. And so sometimes I'll say to him, I need to talk this through with you, so that he knows that I'm doing the verbal processing. And so especially for those of us that are rural processors to just be quiet and let the other person even internalize what was said, and maybe it can be it can be a challenge. It can be learned, you can do it. But just Yeah, throwing that out there that we all have different styles. One of the things that I always like to share with my designers, especially because they're delivering huge proposals. I mean, yeah, these proposals can be six and seven figures. Yeah, they're putting in front of that client. And I asked every single time Nicky, tell me how many of you by the time you actually put that proposal together, were shocked at the number that came up. Every one of them is shocked because of the cost of all the individualized items to create a custom design, whether it went to treatments or you know, whole homes or whatever, they have ranges, but they're still sometimes shocked by the time they add and the taxes and frayed and the you know, the shipping and the handling and the white glove service and all the things and now with the cost of items going up. They're shot. And so I say to then you live in this, you know these numbers, you know, these vendors like this is what you eat, drink, live, breathe do all day long, right? So with your shot, you have to give them time to process the shock, because they don't do it all the time. And so sometimes they are also in their brain, the client, the one that is looking to be the buyer, they're having a conversation, this is more than I expected, this is less than than I expected. What am I willing to give up to get it? What can I do to make this happen? Do I believe this person can give me what they say? Like their their brain is ping ponging in that moment, trying to slot together all of these ideas to see if they have alignment to say yes. And we need to be quiet, to allow them the chance to do a cost benefit analysis in their brain very quickly.

Nikki Rausch  40:52

Yeah. Yeah, when you so in sales, we always say silence is an advanced selling skill. It's a hard one to learn, especially, like you said, for somebody who's a verbal processor. But the thing about the silence is, it's not for your benefit, it's for the clients, the prospects. And the reason it's so important is because if you keep talking, you're doing what's known as selling past the close. When you sell past the close, oftentimes, you'll muddy the waters. So they're trying to process like you're saying, there's this ping pong, and going back and forth cost analysis, all these things like, oh, my gosh, can I afford this? What about this? How am I going to solve this, you know, your, your brain is going like a million miles a minute. And when you keep talking to them, you're essentially putting up roadblocks. It's like you're you're, you're like throwing dirt into a really clean crystal clear, you know, glass of water, and you just keep throwing clumps of dirt in and at some point, you're not going to be able to see anything, and therefore they won't make any decision. And so you got to be quiet and let them process and let them decide. You don't know what they're thinking, even if there's a part of you that's like, Oh, but I can read minds. Okay, good, and you don't know what they're thinking. So be willing to take a step back, be willing to wait, let them have their silence that they need, and then see what they come back with next. If you try to anticipate it, oftentimes, you'll either misdirect them in some way, you'll muddy the waters, you'll cause them to go into overwhelm, or they'll just back away because they can't make a decision. In that moment.

Michele  42:32

I think that is a really awesome point to realize there is the in the sales process, you get them up to the close, and then you need to stop and recognizing where is that, especially when you go back to the comment you made earlier Nikki about your one question away from the cell being quiet in that moment, they're either going to do one of three, what I would say maybe four things, they're going to give you a yes. They're going to give you a no, they're gonna tell you they need to think about it or they're going to ask you a question. That's kind of the four main things that they are going to do.

Nikki Rausch  43:06

So I would add one more if I Okay. Sure. They might they might voice an objection. Oh, yeah. That's also a time where they can maybe voice an objection. So just wanted to like, yeah, no,

Michele  43:16

no, you're right about that. Forgot that one. Um, hopefully, we figured out enough of the objections beforehand, but it doesn't mean that they can't come up with one. Yeah, for sure. So let's talk for a minute about maybe you know, what's interesting? I don't know that I've ever gotten to one at the end that just said no. Okay. Usually, there's either an objection, yeah, you know, cost time, something that they don't have, or that is not available to them. Or they go into that I need to think about it, or the Yes, I mean, we kind of go on that side of things. Yeah. So let's talk about you mentioned the ghosting. And I've had my clients mentioned that, you know, on occasion, they have the same thing. They think they have this wonderful report. They've got everything up, they've offered they've done the proposal, you know, maybe they went, I don't remember if they went through the proposal with them, like face to face or through a zoom call, or however. What do you do when they just don't call back? I have on occasion had people that they were on my calendar, and I was on their calendar, and I called them and they just didn't answer almost like the decision fatigue was so real. They still didn't want to even get on the phone and have yet everything had been up to the point that you thought they were going to sound like they gave every yep, I want to do this. I just need to think about it. So you've been led down the path that you have answered every question that you've removed every obstacle that you've done what you need to do. They tell you, you agree that you're going to call them and then you call them and they don't answer. What what is your next step? How did you find A lot or do you?

Nikki Rausch  45:01

Yeah, I absolutely follow up. And I'll tell you, I have a couple of different things I'm going to do in those moments. The first thing I'm going to do is I'm going to follow up with concern. So I'm going to follow up and go, I just wanted to make sure all is all as well with you, would you please let me know, we were scheduled to chat today. And I just want to make sure that you're okay. When you do that most people will then respond, because they'll be like, I didn't mean to make you worry, Michele, I just blew you off. I mean, they won't actually say that. But that could be the case. Sure. And I learned this lesson years ago, because I've been doing this for a long time of like, following up with concern. And I had a client no show for something. And she'd already rescheduled it two times. So there was this part of my brain that was like, She's totally blowing me off. But she no showed for our appointment. So it wasn't a reschedule. But it was just a no show. And so I did, I followed up with concern. And she wrote back to me an hour later and said, Nikki, I had been in a car accident, I'm so sorry, like, good thing I didn't follow up with like, Hey, you just blew me off again, you know, because she really was in a really serious situation. I mean, not so serious that she can, you know, email me up an hour later, but still enough that, you know, I want to make sure I share concern, and she ended up becoming this amazing client.

Michele  46:17

Intrinsically, we do want to show concern, right? Yes, yes.

Nikki Rausch  46:22

I really am concerned.

Michele  46:23

Especially the last two to three years of a pandemic, we really do want to be careful how we respond to people.

Nikki Rausch  46:29

Yeah, yeah. And so the other, so you know, most of the time, they're going to respond. Now, if I, if I don't hear back from them, I might check in with them one more time. And then if I don't hear back, I will send a message. And I use a subject line. I got this from a client years ago, and it's super effective. It's called closing the loop. So that's what you write in your subject line. And then the message is basically like, you know, hi, Nikki, just wanted to circle back with you one last time, it's important to put that in there one last time and see, have you made a decision one way or the other about us working together? Question Mark, would you please let me know. Looking forward to your response. Now, at that point, as soon as I send a closing the loop message, people will either they'll do kind of one of two things, they'll be like, Oh, Nikki, don't go away. I actually didn't want to work with you, and I got busy. And they'll start telling you like reasons. Or they'll just that will be the end of it. And as far as I'm concerned, as soon as I send a closing the loop message, that's a blessing release for me. The only way I will reengage with somebody is if they re engage with me first. But I'll leave the message. Oh, you know, get Don't be kind enough that hopefully, they won't feel like, Oh, I can't go back to Nikki now. They'll be like, Oh, I'm actually ready now. So I'm gonna call her back. Right? Say, I know, we talked, we talked last year, and I wasn't ready to work with you, but I am now. Right. So I want to leave the door open with kindness. But I also am not going to chase people. I, I absolutely do not believe in chasing clients, I will say, You chase, you chase a client, and they turn into like a toddler. You know, if you say to a toddler, like, I'm gonna chase you, they don't even know what the game is. And they're off and running. So if you act like you're going to chase clients all the time, they will run away from you.

Michele  48:20

I agree. And I've had clients do the same thing. I have a client that I've just started working with that, you know, we met nine years ago. And probably two, three years ago, she reached out to me. And as we were working through, you know, similar process, like if we were to use your five steps, we were probably at, we moved from Step Four to step five. Okay. And then we started talking about the time investment. And what was happening wasn't about money. It was about time. And she started telling me things. And before I got through with, let's say step forward to step five, I actually pulled the proposal back. And I said that I don't think the timing is right. And she agreed, I don't think the timing is right, either. So this proposal still gonna, like I still want to work with you, you still want to work with me. But for us to make the most of it. I think we need to like put a pin in it and revisit it when these things have occurred so that you're in a better place to move forward. And three years later, she called me back and we I mean, we kept engaged with newsletters and you know, things like that and seeing each other at different events. And then she came in she's like, okay, these things have happened. I'm now in a healthier place. I want to reengage Can we talk, revise, review the proposal and move to the next step. So it was quick and easy. The second time, and if if if either of us had been, you know, rude or that feeling of being pushed into a corner, you better make a decision. Nobody wants that. So I am a big fan. And how are you? Is everything okay? Because that truly should be our first response? I think so too, oh, that we've been taught. We've all we've been through a conversation with, I want to believe that they are kind people that when they put something on their calendar that they intend to show up for it. But things happen. So giving grace in that moment, I think goes a long way.

Nikki Rausch  50:24

Yeah, I think it's always better to default to grace in all areas of life, frankly, but definitely in a sales process to is just default to grace and let you know if it turns out that the person no showed or blew you off, or whatever. But one of the reasons that I specifically asked to get on people's calendars, is it especially if I'm going to send any kind of information or follow up proposal or anything like that, the reason I want to have a scheduled next step is because people will often they'll take time to look at what you've sent. Versus if you don't have a scheduled next step, they might let it sit in their email, then it gets pushed below the fold, then they never look at it. And if they never look at your proposal, you're never going to earn their business. So we want to make sure that they look at the proposal. And by having something scheduled on the calendar, they're more likely to do that. And then because they look at it, if they look at it, and have sticker shock, and then go no way in heck, am I ever gonna buy this, they'll likely cancel that call with you. And then you know, they're not a good fit, they're not ready, you know, you can do some things to build some, you know, keep that rapport going. But I would rather somebody tell me, you know, 24 hours, 48 hours ahead of time that the answer is no Nikki, then we have to get on a call with somebody for them to say, so I just got on this call to tell you, I'm not going to hire you. Like I don't want to waste my time with that. And I don't want to waste their time either. So get that call scheduled because you're more likely to get a decision.

Michele  51:58

Alright, so I'm going to throw this out as we are wrapping up our conversation. And that is we need to be the kind of clients that we want to have. Right?

Nikki Rausch  52:08

I HALLELUJAH, AMEN to what you just said,

Michele  52:11

because here's, I'm going to, I'm just going to lay it out here. Because there are some things that drive me crazy. Yeah. And that is that I will get discovery calls from people. And they will be telling me about all the bad behaviors of the clients that they worked with are people that won't sign their contracts or won't move forward or won't do this or won't do that. And then we have something scheduled. And they do the same thing where they ghost or they don't look, even with follow up even with grace, even with all the things. And I want I so want to just kindly say, for example, if you're not kind to other service providers, then what are you putting out for your clients to work with you. And so for example, if we're not tied to the people that are serving us our food, if we're not tipping people that are serving us when they do the things they need to do, or we're not understanding the investment, or we're not just closing our own sales loops with people, no, thank you, I am not in need of that service. I appreciate you reaching out, but that doesn't fit my budget, whatever. But if we don't close that loop with them, then we're not you know, and I'm not going to hold just put it out in the universe. But I'm just saying we are creating habits that are going to show back up in our own business. And so if we want people to close the loops, and to be kind and to show grace to us as a business, again, the relationship begins during that sales process. So if we are showing grace through that, and we are showing kindness, and we're showing curiosity, it's funny, I think I may have mentioned this to you. But three words that I've been focusing on probably for the last three months are kind of soft and curious. And so if I can be kind, and I can be soft, and I can be curious, and I'm building our relationship and it carries on that way. People are going to want to treat me kind soft and curious because I'm being a modeling it for them. Right? Yeah. So I'm just throwing that out there that be the type of business owner be the type of clear communicator that you want your clients to be with you because they will watch you model it and it will come back to you with what you're doing to other people.

Nikki Rausch  54:19

Yes, yes. You know, I if I can, I'm just going to add one more to this because I love I love, love, love that you brought this up. Here's the other one that I often see with business owners in all different areas of business because I work with primarily female entrepreneurs around the world and all different types of services is the person who is super frustrated that nobody will invest in their business like nobody will say yes to their, you know, they're not closing deals. And they are what you find about those people a lot of times is they're not willing to invest in themselves. And so they show up with this attitude, or this maybe energy do that why would anybody invest and hire them when they won't even invest in themselves? This is another one that I think when I hear this from people, I had a, I had a kind of a client for a while, who was always complaining that you know, people would, they just didn't see the value behind her, you know, service, but she would constantly look for the cheapest option of how she could get feedback from me without paying me money faster. I just was like, You're missing the point is seeing it, you got to dive in, you have to invest in yourself. And people are often like, yeah, you know, Nikki, how do you, you know, your business is gone from here to here, and you've done all these things. And I'm like, I invest 1000s of dollars in my personal development, every single month, I have a coach, I have a mastermind, for me as a business owner. And so when somebody's like, yeah, I really need, you know, I really need some sales, or I really need some marketing. And it's like, well, what's your marketing budget? Well, I don't have one. Well, what have you invested in learning how to sell? Well, I haven't. Well, you know, like, come on. I

Michele  56:09

I know. I see. I see the same thing, especially in in interior design. I mean, it's an elevated type of, you know, it's a luxury market period. Yeah, yeah, outside of, you know, going to a local store and buying something and bringing in your home. But I see people wanting, there's this idea of what they're worth, versus what their products and services are worth. And I'm a big separator of personal human worth, from what our business does hold different conversation. Yes, that is one that we have to think about in the sales process. But at the same time, they're not investing in professionals to do what they need to have done in their business. So they're looking at it drives me crazy. When I see that out online. I'm looking for the best this I'm looking for the cheapest this, I'm looking, but they're like, nobody will pay my rates is the same conversation. You had enough. I say you're not see that just because that disconnect is like my eyes glaring at me. I don't know why you don't see that. Yeah. But when they start investing in their business, and in the support of them as the business owner and supportive what they're doing, the more that they build into that the more that it actually builds their confidence to go out and do that. And for people to come in and see that difference? Yeah, definitely a huge disconnect. But I think the more we connect it, the more we can sell the product and service and offering because we're confident in that. Right? Yeah,

Nikki Rausch  57:38

Yeah, absolutely. When you invest in yourself and invest in your business, and you really understand what it takes to get to this level. Then when you're putting out your proposals, and people are like, Oh, wow, and you stand in this place of credibility, and you go Yeah, and and imagine what your home is going to look like or imagine what your environment is gonna look like, after you have this done. You come from a place of credibility, you come from a place of authority, and it will come across in the way that people perceive you.

Michele  58:12

Right? Because you know what it really takes to get it done. Yeah, you understand that? Yeah, we're in that for sure. Yeah. Nikki, tell people where they can find you. If they want to follow up if they want to. Listen, we're going to link your podcast. But where are you hanging out online,

Nikki Rausch  58:27

I tend to hang out probably on Instagram the most. So you can find me under Sales Maven, I'd love to wrap a gift around for your audience. If anybody's interested in really up leveling their sales. I have an e book. It's called Closing the Sale. And it talks through kind of those last three steps of the sales conversation, it gives some ideas around some closed language that we've talked about today. You can get that by going to your salesmaven.com/choice. So this is for your listeners. And then we'll be connected. So I'd love to hear any feedback or your takeaway from this episode. It's super fun to get to spend time with you, Michele, thank you for having me.

Michele  59:06

Oh, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much. And I look forward to hopefully have you on again, I'm sure there's 10,000 conversations we can have. Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast. Nikki, it was a great conversation as always.

Michele  59:20

I want to encourage you all to check out the links that Nikki sent, especially the one that she put out there for choice. I'm gonna go check it out myself. And then I'd also like to ask you to think about where in your business you need support. Is it in sales? Is it in Financials? Is it in operations or strategy? What is it that you need at this moment to get to the next place you want to go? If Scarlet Thread Consulting can help you I'd love for you to sign up for a discovery call at scarletthreadconsulting.com If understanding your financials and making sure that you have metrics in front of you that you can measure, check out metriquesolutions.com and always be in touch with what you need and the support that is necessary to surround you to get to where you want to go. And then don't be afraid to reach out for that support. As always, be profitable and be profitable by choice because it doesn't happen by accident. Profit is a Choice is proud to be part of the designnetwork.org where you can discover more design media reaching creative listeners. Thanks for listening, and stay creative and business minded.